Thinking about selling my RXh...
11-27-17, 06:23 AM
#17
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
"Body shop" means local independent collision repair shop.
Stopped by the shop on Wednesday to review where everything stands.
- Estimated completion is the end of this week.
- Lifetime warranty on repair labor and paint... Manufacturer warranty (Lexus) on door shell. (Turns out that a new door shell from Lexus and moving the interior trim, mirror, wiring, and door internals was cheaper than purchasing a used door).
Spoke with insurance company regarding repair reporting and "diminished value". The diminished value issue may be a battle... they say that it is a function of repair cost and vehicle age, and anything more than 5 years old typically does not get any consideration for diminished value, and since mine is a 2010, they may not offer anything for that aspect of the situation. I told the adjuster that I didn't care who compensated me for that issue (Tire Shop or Insurance Company), but that someone will be taking care of that. The Adjuster said she would bring it put with and review the situation with her manager, who does seem to have some latitude on the issue. I'm expecting that some unhappiness may well come out of this issue, and I'll just have to sit quietly for the moment and see how it plays out!
Stopped by the shop on Wednesday to review where everything stands.
- Estimated completion is the end of this week.
- Lifetime warranty on repair labor and paint... Manufacturer warranty (Lexus) on door shell. (Turns out that a new door shell from Lexus and moving the interior trim, mirror, wiring, and door internals was cheaper than purchasing a used door).
Spoke with insurance company regarding repair reporting and "diminished value". The diminished value issue may be a battle... they say that it is a function of repair cost and vehicle age, and anything more than 5 years old typically does not get any consideration for diminished value, and since mine is a 2010, they may not offer anything for that aspect of the situation. I told the adjuster that I didn't care who compensated me for that issue (Tire Shop or Insurance Company), but that someone will be taking care of that. The Adjuster said she would bring it put with and review the situation with her manager, who does seem to have some latitude on the issue. I'm expecting that some unhappiness may well come out of this issue, and I'll just have to sit quietly for the moment and see how it plays out!
11-27-17, 08:50 AM
#18
A few comments.
Because you brought up the fact about trading it in now.....you might of already been thinking about it. Nothing wrong with it, but this probably accelerated that thought process.
Depending on miles and a 2010, I'd also be thinking about trading it in or upgrading. Although I bought a 2013 about 8 months ago, maybe start looking around 2015's. Less miles and probably last longer. I'm cranking miles on very quickly!!
Our 2007 RX got hit while parked in a parking lot. Some lady (in distress), hit accelerator pedal instead of brake pedal....drove on top of our hood and passenger fender! Although ours was white, the repair was excellent and I could not see any previous damage. Gap lines tight and even. Pretty amazing repair. However, due to the age (only a few years at that time), Insurance did NOT require Lexus/Toyota OEM sheetmetal. Only like kind. OEM was very expensive! I think they said if under 6 mo to a year old vehicle, OEM would be used. Otherwise, just approved aftermarket.
I don't think ours hit Carfax. Not positive though. It would not surprise me if yours is NOT reported.
I've had the XC90. Wife absolutely loved it. I had it in the shop a LOT. Mine was certified to 100k. When I hit 100k, it was promptly sold. Annoying to bring it to the shop all the time, but with a loaner and them paying for most of the repairs, I was OK. Happy wife! And it was fun to drive with the turbo.
And, my RX is Black with Tan interior. It does look sharp when clean! Just takes some effort. I also swore I'd never own a black vehicle. Now a black Lexus, black Yukon XL and white Blazer.
Good luck!
Because you brought up the fact about trading it in now.....you might of already been thinking about it. Nothing wrong with it, but this probably accelerated that thought process.
Depending on miles and a 2010, I'd also be thinking about trading it in or upgrading. Although I bought a 2013 about 8 months ago, maybe start looking around 2015's. Less miles and probably last longer. I'm cranking miles on very quickly!!
Our 2007 RX got hit while parked in a parking lot. Some lady (in distress), hit accelerator pedal instead of brake pedal....drove on top of our hood and passenger fender! Although ours was white, the repair was excellent and I could not see any previous damage. Gap lines tight and even. Pretty amazing repair. However, due to the age (only a few years at that time), Insurance did NOT require Lexus/Toyota OEM sheetmetal. Only like kind. OEM was very expensive! I think they said if under 6 mo to a year old vehicle, OEM would be used. Otherwise, just approved aftermarket.
I don't think ours hit Carfax. Not positive though. It would not surprise me if yours is NOT reported.
I've had the XC90. Wife absolutely loved it. I had it in the shop a LOT. Mine was certified to 100k. When I hit 100k, it was promptly sold. Annoying to bring it to the shop all the time, but with a loaner and them paying for most of the repairs, I was OK. Happy wife! And it was fun to drive with the turbo.
And, my RX is Black with Tan interior. It does look sharp when clean! Just takes some effort. I also swore I'd never own a black vehicle. Now a black Lexus, black Yukon XL and white Blazer.
Good luck!
11-27-17, 09:54 AM
#19
Moderator
I think diminished value depends on the state and insurance company. In Virginia it is in the state code. Last August our HS250h was rear ended while my wife was driving home from work while crawling in traffic at 5 mph. Front and rear bumper damage and rear trunk floor warped.
After $7,000 in repairs it looks new. When I made a diminished value claim Allstate immediately coughed up an offer of $2900 which I accepted.
After $7,000 in repairs it looks new. When I made a diminished value claim Allstate immediately coughed up an offer of $2900 which I accepted.
11-27-17, 11:15 AM
#20
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Thanks, Clutchless... this is an entirely new region of insurance for me, and it's good to know I'm venturing into proven territory.
I'm seeing various "checklist" criteria which must be met for a DV claim. The Nationwide representative said 5 years, but what I find online is that it is actually 7 years in Alabama. I meet the vehicle condition, ownership, and mileage criteria without a doubt, and the 7 year age fits my vehicle exactly. Consequently, it appears that I am eligible for a DV claim here in Alabama. I also see, which we all already know inherently, that the more "high end" of a vehicle you own, the more discriminating purchasers are and the higher the likelihood of having a DV claim honored and paid.
In terms of Carfax reporting, I've not yet received a clear answer from Nationwide as to their intentions and practices.
In terms of color... yes, the Black exterior with Tan interior does look quite sharp. Until this vehicle, we only owned white vehicles for the past 20+ years, and I do like the way white hides the micro swirl scratches in the clear coat much better than do the darker colors. I believe, though, it is the black interior which I dislike most about our vehicle, so a Black/Tan option may well end up being viable.
I'm seeing various "checklist" criteria which must be met for a DV claim. The Nationwide representative said 5 years, but what I find online is that it is actually 7 years in Alabama. I meet the vehicle condition, ownership, and mileage criteria without a doubt, and the 7 year age fits my vehicle exactly. Consequently, it appears that I am eligible for a DV claim here in Alabama. I also see, which we all already know inherently, that the more "high end" of a vehicle you own, the more discriminating purchasers are and the higher the likelihood of having a DV claim honored and paid.
In terms of Carfax reporting, I've not yet received a clear answer from Nationwide as to their intentions and practices.
In terms of color... yes, the Black exterior with Tan interior does look quite sharp. Until this vehicle, we only owned white vehicles for the past 20+ years, and I do like the way white hides the micro swirl scratches in the clear coat much better than do the darker colors. I believe, though, it is the black interior which I dislike most about our vehicle, so a Black/Tan option may well end up being viable.
11-27-17, 12:05 PM
#22
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
You know, through all of this, it honestly never occurred to me to have the vehicle taken to the Lexus Dealer's body shop. You see, this Lexus is the first luxury vehicle we've owned, and I've just never had the need for body shop repairs on such a vehicle. Thinking it through at this point, though, hind sight tells me that I probably should have had it towed to the Lexus body shop... one shop which services and is shared by the Lexus, Porsche, Audi, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, and Land Rover dealerships here in Birmingham!
Oh well, we all know what they say about hind sight!
In the meantime, I've checked into the diminished value issue a little further, and found a couple of sites which estimate my diminished value basis to be somewhere between $1800 and $3500. I'll give Nationwide a chance to voluntarily be responsible on this issue before trying to exert any pressure on them, but will not hesitate to exert pressure if necessary.
Oh well, we all know what they say about hind sight!
In the meantime, I've checked into the diminished value issue a little further, and found a couple of sites which estimate my diminished value basis to be somewhere between $1800 and $3500. I'll give Nationwide a chance to voluntarily be responsible on this issue before trying to exert any pressure on them, but will not hesitate to exert pressure if necessary.
Last edited by F250; 11-27-17 at 01:04 PM.
11-27-17, 02:27 PM
#23
It's probably not as important if it's the Lexus dealer or not. You want to bring it to the shop that does the best work and/or reputation. In my case, it was the Land Rover shop. NOT the Lexus or Toyota shop.
11-27-17, 02:39 PM
#24
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Understood, and agreed.... My point was that this particular "Lexus" shop is not just a "Lexus shop"... it services a wide array of high end vehicles, and is therefore probably used to working at higher levels of "perfection". At a minimum, it is catering to higher end customers with higher levels of expectations.
11-28-17, 07:37 AM
#25
Can't say for sure if it's written in the lease, but years ago my Lexus dealer said I had to have the repairs done at a "Lexus certified body shop". I know the RX I had repaired was not "dinged" for diminished value at lease turn in. In fact, because the "buyout" was low, I actually received a credit toward the new lease when I turned it in early.
11-28-17, 07:57 AM
#27
Moderator
Given a choice of say two identical vehicles 1) with no recorded accident 2) With accident.
Would you pay same $$$$$ for them.
The real problem is determining the diminished value dollar figure.
A known technique is to have the vehicle flat bed to a lot and let them sell it and then see how far is the sale value from the comparable averages. It makes more sense when the vehicle is fairly new, but once it goes past 2 yrs the trouble is more than its worth.
Salim
11-28-17, 10:34 AM
#28
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Salim is absolutely correct... when I buy a used vehicle, I specifically look for the pristine units with no known history (doesn't guarantee there was no prior damage, but it increases the odds). If there was damage in the vehicle history, it is absolutely reflected in what people (and dealers) ask as an initial sales price. I'll freely admit that I have purchased vehicles with "clean" records only to discover later that there was prior damage, and I have also made the choice to purchase vehicles which had prior damage, but only if the airbag did not deploy and it has been a number of years since the accident (long enough for any residual problems to surface). Also, it is fact that prior body damage does not necessarily mean that the vehicle is bad, but most people simply don't want to go there and will pay MORE to avoid it. Diminished Value is a real thing and is in no way an attempt (for me, anyway) to wring the dickens out of the insurance company... I had an undamaged vehicle when I got to the tire shop, and it is only reasonable that I get compensated for someone else reducing the value of my vehicle as a result of their negligence.
Here are the fairly universal "rules" I've found for being eligible for a DV claim, and they make good sense (to me):
- Vehicle has NO prior damage claims
- Vehicle is OWNED, and not leased
- Vehicle is less than some age (5, 7, 10 years), which varies from state to state
- Vehicle has less than 100,000 miles on it
- Vehicle was in really good condition before the incident
- There are "Cost of Repairs" and "Undamaged Market Value" components which are also taken into consideration once the above criteria are met
- Most states only allow DV claims if the damage is the fault of a third party (not the owner's fault), and the claim has to be filed with the other party's insurance company
The best accepted technique I've read about in determining diminished value is based on real world information which is obtained by taking the car to at least two dealers (they don't have to be Lexus dealers). The dealers then run two evaluations (appraisals) -- one assuming no prior damage, and the second with knowledge of the damage. The differences between the two appraisals at each dealer are used together to determine some sort of weighted average figure for Diminished Value. The folks who do this (diminished value appraisals) on a regular basis go to three dealers, and their detailed appraisal report is presented to the insurance company. Also, from what I've read, when this is done properly, most insurance companies accept the DV appraisal report and offer that to the vehicle owner, but some do try to negotiate it down (imagine that!).
The DV range I received yesterday from two different firms came from a short list of details about my RXh (identical information to both firms), and they just ran the numbers without a detailed inspection of the vehicle (it's still at the shop) -- sort of a "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" kind of preliminary review, and they both confirmed that my situation clearly fits all required criteria for a DV claim, and that the estimated range for my current situation was the &1800-$3500 I reported above.
One more thing... any insurance rate increases are going to be restricted to the client of the insurance company who pays the claim -- the "guilty" party -- not everyone else.
Here are the fairly universal "rules" I've found for being eligible for a DV claim, and they make good sense (to me):
- Vehicle has NO prior damage claims
- Vehicle is OWNED, and not leased
- Vehicle is less than some age (5, 7, 10 years), which varies from state to state
- Vehicle has less than 100,000 miles on it
- Vehicle was in really good condition before the incident
- There are "Cost of Repairs" and "Undamaged Market Value" components which are also taken into consideration once the above criteria are met
- Most states only allow DV claims if the damage is the fault of a third party (not the owner's fault), and the claim has to be filed with the other party's insurance company
The best accepted technique I've read about in determining diminished value is based on real world information which is obtained by taking the car to at least two dealers (they don't have to be Lexus dealers). The dealers then run two evaluations (appraisals) -- one assuming no prior damage, and the second with knowledge of the damage. The differences between the two appraisals at each dealer are used together to determine some sort of weighted average figure for Diminished Value. The folks who do this (diminished value appraisals) on a regular basis go to three dealers, and their detailed appraisal report is presented to the insurance company. Also, from what I've read, when this is done properly, most insurance companies accept the DV appraisal report and offer that to the vehicle owner, but some do try to negotiate it down (imagine that!).
The DV range I received yesterday from two different firms came from a short list of details about my RXh (identical information to both firms), and they just ran the numbers without a detailed inspection of the vehicle (it's still at the shop) -- sort of a "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" kind of preliminary review, and they both confirmed that my situation clearly fits all required criteria for a DV claim, and that the estimated range for my current situation was the &1800-$3500 I reported above.
One more thing... any insurance rate increases are going to be restricted to the client of the insurance company who pays the claim -- the "guilty" party -- not everyone else.
Last edited by F250; 11-28-17 at 10:41 AM.
11-28-17, 11:24 AM
#29
No, I don't play soccer!
Pete, I didn't mean to complicate your situation by bringing up diminished value. My intent was only to make you aware of a possible way to lessen the pain of having a 'less than perfect' 450h, in quotes because as others have stated, the repair can be indistinguishable. Fingers crossed it's the case for you too. Also, try not to get caught up on going to a non-Lexus body shop. Most of the dealers by me use independent places. I cringe every time I pass by the one close to me. In your case, they're using OE Lexus parts and giving you lifetime warranty on the work. That's important.
Again, good luck with everything.
Again, good luck with everything.
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F250 (11-29-17)
11-28-17, 03:25 PM
#30
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
You're right, Anita, and I do keep those realities in mind. Thanks for the positive nudge!
I've had excellent work done by an independent shop before, so I know it's not outside of the realm of possibilities, and I honestly don't believe the Tire Shop manager would steer me into a questionable situation. He has turned away work from me before because he felt it better to make sure to preserve our relationship rather than risk losing it if the repairs didn't go well. On the issue of diminished value, I had already considered it, but was simply not aware that it was a "thing" that insurance companies are willing to address. If I were in a similar situation again, I would avail myself of the higher end shop run by the same people who own those higher end dealerships, but I'm content to leave things as they are for now and see how everything comes out without rocking the cart. I'll be very glad, though, to get to the next step where I can review the work quality and then proceed from that point.
I've had excellent work done by an independent shop before, so I know it's not outside of the realm of possibilities, and I honestly don't believe the Tire Shop manager would steer me into a questionable situation. He has turned away work from me before because he felt it better to make sure to preserve our relationship rather than risk losing it if the repairs didn't go well. On the issue of diminished value, I had already considered it, but was simply not aware that it was a "thing" that insurance companies are willing to address. If I were in a similar situation again, I would avail myself of the higher end shop run by the same people who own those higher end dealerships, but I'm content to leave things as they are for now and see how everything comes out without rocking the cart. I'll be very glad, though, to get to the next step where I can review the work quality and then proceed from that point.