beasticles

Hello - First of all - I know the debate of GX460 and RX350 has been covered ad nauseum in the forum here (I have been lurking for a few weeks now), but I didn't find much on my situation, which is comparing the prior gen GX to the prior gen RX and am hoping you friendly folks can provide some unique perspectives as we narrow down on purchasing a new vehicle. Second of all - forgive the lengthy post.

I am new to the forum and new to Lexus' generally, but not new to cars. My wife and I are expecting our first child in October and we are doing some reshuffling of our vehicles (currently include an '03 Z71 Suburban (I drive), '95 Miata (I drive), and '09 Jetta (wife drives) to get my wife into a newer more reliable SUV she can DD and haul baby (and baby's stuff) around in, but that will also be our family trip car and general all-duty vehicle. I am fairly competent shade tree mechanic having done everything from brakes and rotors, u-joints, and valve covers - to replacing my Suburban's transfer case. That said, I am getting to a point, especially with baby on the way, that laying in my driveway under my vehicle for hours on end during my precious short weekends is not something I enjoy as much as I once did.

Ironically, I have driven Mercedes for most of my adult life and had started steering us toward a prior gen post-facelift ML350 ('09-'11). However, after thinking things through more, I realized I really wanted my wife in car where I wouldn't worry about things going wrong on a regular basis. Hence why we started eyeing RX350's.

Our main use for this vehicle will be my wife's DD, but also will be our trip vehicle. We have a small 20 lb. dog and have baby on the way - I am worried this won't be enough space, after coming from a Suburban particularly. The only times we would really need extra space would be long trips to the beach - and I think I could remedy that by installing a tow hitch and utilizing a cargo hitch basket. From time-to-time I also will need to tow my 7x10 trailer for various yard projects - but never too far. I used to tow it with my 2000 Jeep Cherokee and so I am assuming the RX will have no problem assuming I tow within the limits of the vehicle (believe the 2012 is rated for 2000 lbs. towing).

Based on my concerns about space, I then started looking at the GX470 '08 and back. For our price range we will only be able to afford a higher mileage model, which is starting to get away from my goal of buying a newer, lower mileage vehicle I won't have to be working on constantly. Yet it seems like we will quickly outgrow the RX350 (at least that is my concern).

What do you guys think based on our situation? My wife has yet to drive the GX so not sure if she will like the more truck like ride or not. From everything I have read, the GX is supposed to feel more planted than the RX.

If we do outgrow the RX - do you think the RX or the GX would be better for value retention/depreciation?

Our budget started at around $20K (but now I have compromised and am willing to go up to $24K for the right vehicle). Targeting mileage between 50K and 70K. We found two different 2012 RX350's (I know this is pre-facelift - but post-facelift '13+ is out of our price range) that ended up being out of our price range but my wife wants a "newer" vehicle. And then I found one GX470 I liked. Those were:

> 2012 Black exterior w/ivory interior - 52K miles - $24K (private seller) - has 2 years/70K remaining on an extended warranty

> 2012 White exterior w/ivory interior - 64K miles - $23.3K (dealer)

> 2008 Black exterior w/tan interior - 113K miles - $20K (dealer)

> 2006 White exterior w/tan interior - 130K miles - $16K (dealer)

F250

Welcome to the forum. Your long post is thorough and provides lots of helpful info for us to consider along with your question of "Which one?". My answer is long as well, so I'll ask for you patience as you read it.

In a LOT of ways, you are singing my song, and at perfect pitch! Our own venture into Lexus-land follows having spent 9 years with a Suburban which was followed by 9 years with a diesel Excursion. We have six kids, and these large vehicles were a necessity, as was the trailer hitch basket in addition to their cavernous capacities when making road trips. These were my wife's DD's and our general family trip vehicles, and I performed all maintenance myself. At this point in our life, though, with only three kids left at home and two of them graduated from HS and spending most of their time working or in school, we no longer need a land yacht.

Being new to both Lexus and this forum, we are now owners of a 2010 RX450h which we purchased just one week ago. It's FWD and has 71K miles, and we got it from a BMW dealer for a hair over $23K. I spent nearly two months of intense searching before purchasing the one we have, and also considered the ML350, RX350, GX470, MDX, Q5, Subaru Crosstek, and X5 as my starting points. The ML350 and X5 were ruled out immediately due to the implications of a higher mileage model hitting the finicky and expensive repair bill scenarios. My wife did not like the MDX and didn't even want to do a test drive in it. On top of that, one of my son's spent a year working in the service department at a Lexus/BMW/Porsche/Audi dealership and verified that the Audis and MB's and BMW's typically no longer last beyond the 80K mile mark without perpetual repair needs. The Crosstek was too small for my wife's taste, and it did not sit high enough off the road for her (she is very small, but is used to and really likes the higher seating position after the 18 years with our other vehicles).

OK... GX470 or RX? I have been wanting to move to the GX for about 4 years, ever since seeing our neighbor with theirs. It has more space and a larger engine than the RX, and with me being a larger than average build, I value elbow, head, and leg room very much. In fact, I'm still driving my '02 F250 crew cab diesel every day as MY DD, and I LOVE my spacious room! I also have always disliked the "egg" appearance of the RX family, but this was going to be my WIFE's DD, and as a gift to her long term hatred of the larger vehicles with which she has been stuck, I was determined to get what SHE wanted, as long as it fit the reliability issue. Sooo... we drove the 2010 GX470, and neither of us like it. More body roll, felt "too large" for OUR needs, and has the thirsty V8. We drove a 2010 RX350 and fell in love. It is spacious enough for US and rode and drove like a dream. I ended up driving several more 2010 and 2011 RX's, but ultimately chose to go the hybrid route. The RX has grown on me, and the 3rd Gen's are not nearly as egg-like as their predecessors.

Having been through the phase of life you are entering (numerous times), I appreciate your goals and needs very clearly. Although we never had a dog in the mix, we often, for years, had two infant/toddler car seats and lots of peripherals everywhere we went, complete with the double-stroller component. From what you've shared and described, my personal opinion is that your decision should include consideration for several things you did not mention. I'm not asking you to necessarily answer these publicly, but just suggesting that you take them into consideration.

1) Are you planning/wanting more children beyond this first, and if so, how far down the road?
2) Are you OK with the lower fuel economy of the V8 in the GX470?
3) If either or both of the above (or any of your other goals) pushes you towards the RX350 being a better fit at the moment but that it doesn't fit 3-4 years down the road, you can always keep the RX350 for several years and then move into the GX as your needs dictate.

Other comments.
- From a cargo space standpoint, the trailer basket concept is certainly viable, especially when used as you've described on a limited frequency.
- From what I've read, I don't know if a cream interior will retain its appearance over time, especially with the extra stresses of and baby seat and a dog.
- Reliability, in my mind, is a moot point between your two options.
- The interior of the RX350 is more spacious than it looks on the outside. Every time I drive our 450h (exact same body as the RX350, just with hybrid power train technology)... EVERY time I drive it, I feel very comfortable and am more than pleased with the available seating and storage space it offers for a potential road trip with my wife and 16yo daughter and all our requisite luggage... especially since I already have the hitch basket if push comes to shove! I think it could work well for you in your situation.

My final thought is that the RX would certainly work for you, and if your needs change, you can move back to a larger GX at a later time. In the meantime, you would be benefiting from a better DD fuel cost situation.

Either way, with perseverance, patience,and thorough research, you will have a reliable vehicle regardless of which you choose.

Hope this helps a little.

beasticles

F250 - Wow thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. That is exactly the type of guidance/opinions I needed to help aide in the decision. Your iterations through your buying process do sound very similar to my own, particularly the part regarding coming from a much larger vehicle, the hesitation on whether or not to go away from a body on frame platform (GX) to a unibody (RX).

I think you are in my head - but generally my thought was similar to what you stated in that we could keep the RX for a few years before moving up to something else. My wife is set on have at least one other kid which I imagine will happen in the next 2-3 years. But everything you had said is reassuring that the space should be more than adequate until that time, and possibly even afterwards. We will have to be a bit more frugal with some of our packing, but as you said, a trailer hitch mounted cargo basket should alleviate the space issues for long road trips.

I suspect my wife will feel similar to yourself and your wife in that I feel like she is not going to enjoy the ride of the GX over the RX (my wife hates driving my Suburban). For me gas mileage is not as much of a concern, but certainly a more fuel efficient vehicle is preferable.

Regarding the cream interior - my wife has a soft spot for tan interiors for whatever reason so I am giving her that one! Agree will be probably difficult to keep clean over time.

I am glad you are enjoying your new RX. The only thing I didn't mention, and I take it based on the fact you bought a FWD RX it may not be relevant to your area of the country, is snow driving capability of the RX vs the GX. We live in Northern Virginia and typically get 3-7 snows a year, of which 2 or so are usually 8 or more inches. My job does require me to commute into work on bad weather days, so I am a little hesitant to go to a weaker AWD system over a standard mechanical transfer case (which I have always had in my Jeeps and now, Suburban). That said, from what I have read the AWD system is more than capable if you know your limits and turn off traction control when driving in snow.

In buying a 2010, was there anything you wish you had that came with the facelifted RX models ('13+)? I can't justify the $3K-$5K premium for the facelift model at this point, but just curious. Did you look at any prior gen RX's (I believe '03 to '08)?

Thanks so much again for your thoughts and time.

JDR76

I have two kids and our RX was more than enough for the four of us, so I think you should be fine. We did get Thule box for those longer trips where we needed even more room, but we easily carry multiple jogging strollers, pack'n play, bags, toys, bikes, etc and never had a complaint with our RX. It was a fantastic vehicle for a family.

I drove it in the snow just twice. No issues there whatsoever, even in our very hilly neighborhood.

The GX is great too. I had that same V8 in a previous 4Runner and loved it. It's a very smooth engine, but not much more powerful than the RX V6 (RX has more horsepower, but less torque). I would just drive both and see what one speaks to you and your wife, and what the better deals are. Can't lose either way.

MellonC00

The MellonC Jr's have taken up a lot more space than I ever anticipated. My original thought was to use my 2001 RX as the DD for Mrs. MellonC but that did not work out. Just having two nice and protective car seats along with a diaper bag and mommy doodads pretty much fills up the back seats. Your front seat won't recline as much and if your inseams are just a shadow above 32, you are looking at cramped knees while driving. And what about if you have a nanny or incessant mother in law wanting stay a "little" longer to take care of the baby??? where is she gonna sit? And don't forget the stroller or strollerS. The nice ones, like the Bagaboos, which i'm sure Mrs. Beasticles may insist on fold up kinda weird and take up the whole darn trunk leaving you no space for your golf clubs let alone any emergency liquid wax and shine treatment for occasional bird droppings. Finally don't forget the playdates - the term females use for kids getting together even though the babies don't know where they are nor do they know what a friend is - another mom and her baby may have to sit in the car.


I guess what I'm saying is: You need two to three child seat LATCH points (this is an actual term). RX is out of the question. Too many crevices in the interior where candy and baby foods will be lodged in. And it is just not big enough. GX is OK but putting your baby in the back seat with a baby carrier will mean opening the door all the way in the tight parking lot. Good luck trying to protect your neighbor's car from your giant door. Conclusion. Bring down your T count and go with estrogenical mini vans. May I suggest a Toyota Sieinna? Load it up with top level trim and it's actually pretty nice inside.

F250

I completely get letting our wives' preferences rule in certain aspects, especially after having obligated them to something they did not enjoy in previous years.

Just a suggestion for the light interior color... and I no longer know what is already available today as a manufactured kiddie support accessory... if I were going that route (light colored interior), I would look for a liner of some sort which is water proof with a cloth surface on both sides -- in fact, I would do it regardless od interior color choice just to protect the investment. One DIY option is to buy a couple yards of fabric lined neoprene. This would cushion the impact of the seat hardware while simultaneously giving you a slightly absorbent and cleanable surface while keeping the liquids and hard pressure points off the leather. No sewing or edge treatments are required for the lined neoprene... just trim to the shape and size you want, and there are a variety of colors and patterns available for a wide range of personal tastes. Two sources for the neoprene are here...
- Seattle Fabrics http://www.seattlefabrics.com/neoprene.html , and
- Rockywoods http://www.rockywoods.com/Fabrics-Kits/Neoprene_Fabrics

As for the GX ride, it felt "rolly" and "heavy" to us, though the engine had adequate perkiness. In fact, the particular GX we drove had more body roll to it than either my Excursion or F250, and it probably has more to do with the Lexus design goal of separating the driver from the road. It also felt like we really weren't gaining much in "downsizing" inside the vehicle... it was too close to the larger vehicles we were moving away from. Again, that was OUR impression. You and your wife may not end up feeling the same way at all. And yeah... larger door swing radius in our environmentally-conscious, ever-shrinking parking slots.

I initially wanted the AWD, even for here, because we DO get bad conditions every several years or so. Then again, my wife does not work outside the home and hates driving in ANY inclement weather, so it really would not be a requirement for us in the end. I settled for the FWD, and as already mentioned, I can "upgrade" later if I deem it better for us. Also, from what I've read, even some of the folks who have the FWD versions in colder and snowy-er climates have commented positively about the RX's traction. The RX will be lighter than the GX, so I've ended up concluding that the RX AWD format will be as stable as necessary because off-roading is probably never in the cards for Lexus buyers... at least not with the Lexus vehicles, anyway. There are other vehicles much more capable for that kind of fun.

In terms of what I wish I had from the '13+ vehicles... I honestly can't answer the question at all. Our budget limited us to the 2010-2011 models because of my requirements for max 50-70K miles, pristine condition, max of 2 previous owners, only southern (or NON-snowy) driven vehicles, no black or red or light blue or silver colored vehicles, and max price of $24K (started at max price of $20K). With those constraints, I never even looked at what the 13+ models had to offer because I did not want to tempt myself beyond my already relaxed price limit.

Regarding the pre-2010 model years, I did not consider those to be an option because I did not want to settle for "another year or two older" vehicle life. We were replacing a 2003 after having owned it for 7 years, which means it was 6 years old when we got it. Silly or not, I wanted to keep that demarcation point for the "new" vehicle. I can't say that my reasoning was based on anything less whimsical than that, and I'm sure that there are plenty of folks who would say that I could have done better by chasing a 2008-2010 model year for a bit less money and come out just as well in the end, but I'm OK with others having a different set of buying guidelines than me because they are buying vehicles for themselves and their needs... not mine. I'm very happy with what we've ended up with.

One other comment about the '03-'08 model years... I believe it was in about '07 or '08 when the 3.5 engine went in that Lexus moved away from the timing belt and began using a timing CHAIN again... Although I've done my share of timing belt and water pump jobs... one less potential trouble spot in my vehicular stable is a plus in my mind.

beasticles

Appreciate your input, especially in light of Mellon's thoughts on it being too small. I feel like it is certainly doable for many people with 4 adults.

JDR76

Everyone has their own opinion of what is comfortable. The third gen RX is a lot bigger than a 2001 model. I had two car seats in the back seat of our RX, and I could seat a passenger in the middle between them. Before our second child was born, we had our daughter's car seat in the rear middle, and could comfortably sit an adult on each side of her, so we had 4 adults and 1 child with no problem. Also, with a 36" inseam, I could still have the front seat where I wanted it. We bought the RX because it was one of the few at the time that could easily carry a jogging stroller along with baggage. No doubt a minivan is bigger and easier, but just felt like way more than we needed.

beasticles

MellonC appreciate the humor (and candor) but minivan isn't in the cards for us right now. Certainly the most practical vehicle you can buy on the market for a family, but as diehard car guy, I need to have something that makes me happy when I drive it. A minivan won't do that for me no matter how nice of a trim package I option out.

To your point about size, I agree, I am probably setting myself up with the RX350 to run out of space in 2-3 years assuming another kid is on the way. With one kid, I think the RX is more than sufficient. Once we have two carseats back there plus a dog - say goodbye to the second row. Having the Suburban is convenient those 10 or less times a year we are hanging with family and need to haul a bunch of people, but for our current lifestyle the Suburban is overkill. I did actually look at 07-08 Suburbans and Yukon XL's but ultimately decided this vehicle was for the wife to DD and that just didn't make sense at this point in our lives. She already test drove the ML350 and really liked it (to my - and her - surprise), so I feel like the size of the RX is going to be right for her. Still plan to have her drive a GX this weekend though.

We do have a BOB stroller and pack-and-play, which I worry about fitting along with all of our other crap for long trips, so point taken. I am inclined to buy a mid-size SUV now, and swap it out in a few years depending on how we are doing on space at that point.

JDR76

Just before parting with our RX, we took it for one last road trip. I'm still amazed at what we put in it, in addition to two kids in car seats, and without the use of the Thule box:

- Pack'n Play
- Kid's mattress
- Single BOB stroller
- Double BOB stroller
- Medium sized cooler
- 2 medium sized suitcases
- 2 small dufflebags
- 3 grocery bags
- 1 box of toys
- 1 inflatable swimming pool

Not going to say it wasn't tight (it was!) but it worked!

beasticles

Thanks for the tips on the liners. May have to check that out. We did ask for and receive those baby liners (for each of our cars) for the car seats that help protect your seats from baby's dirt and from damaging the leather with the car seat base, so those will help. I do plan to take precautions with making sure I am preserving the leather. Whenever the dog rides with us also we make sure to line all leather seat surfaces with blankets so I am less concerned in that regard.

Regarding the GX, I hear what you are saying. I am interested when we go to test drive one this weekend how it will feel in relation to my Suburban. If it feels anything like it, I am sure my wife will reject it. Really the only thing we would be buying the GX for over the RX is the slightly increased cargo capacity, traditional 4WD (which really is overkill for us since we don't offroad), third row (which I hear is not very practical anyway), and significantly higher towing capacity (think the 2008 GX was rated for around 5,500 lbs.) - although I rarely tow things. In going through that list it seems to me that we really don't need most of the items on that list, especially until we have that second kid.

I am with you on buying between MY's '09 and '12. My wife is insistent on not buying an "old" car and so I think the last gen look is too dated to her. Similarly we can't splurge for the facelifted version '13 and up. Thanks for all of the feedback!

beasticles

Holy cow! That actually makes me feel A LOT better about what you could fit into the RX. That is damn impressive. Thanks for the feedback, that sounds like basically what we would be packing for a week at the beach (minus the second carseat, pool, and double BOB stroller) - so that is immensely helpful info.

Not to get off topic either, but I am angling to purchase a used IS350 once we get the Suburban and Jetta sold. I see from your signature you sold yours for a GS it appears. Did you enjoy the IS350? Assume car seats were tight in the rear (have read up on that topic a bit as well).

MellonC00

I must factually correct you on this. The 2001 RX had a passenger volume of 110 cu ft. the 3rd gen RX has an interior volume of 100 cu ft. Now the outside of the car is much bigger with the 3rd gen. No argument there. But it's the swoopy styling that takes away things like headroom and stuff. I would know, I have both cars sitting my driveway side by side........

JDR76

I had to treat each item like a complex piece of a puzzle, but it worked.

IS350...fantastic car. Loved mine. I had wanted one for years but the rear seat was always too small. When the 3rd gen came out, the rear seat legroom grew considerably, right around the time my daughter switched from rear facing to a more compact front facing car seat. I jumped on the chance and leased one. About 6 months into my time with it, we found out we were having baby number 2 (surprise!). After our son was born, I kept it for another 10 months or so. The rear facing seat was a challenge. I had my daughter behind the driver's seat, which worked fine, and the infant seat was behind the passenger seat. When he was in it, I had to move the front passenger seat so far forward that it wasn't really usable for an adult up there, so the 4 of us couldn't really go somewhere together in it. We used the RX for that.

I took my IS in for service at around 16k miles. They had end of the year deals on the GS, so I looked at one while I was waiting. Drove it and loved it, as it drove much like my IS. It solved my interior space issues (we can all 4 go in it very comfortably), and with the rebates and discounts I was able to keep my GS lease payment the same as my IS was, so it was a bit of a no brainer.

I totally recommend the IS, but know that it is challenging with rear facing car seats.

beasticles

This is very useful information - thanks much. I figure that the passenger seat will basically be unusable if you have an infant seat in the back. The flip side of the coin is that we would rarely need to drive it when we have the RX - and I really want something sporty to drive daily. I'll be shuttling baby to daycare every morning - is it a pain to get the seat in and out, or is the inconvenience more driven by the fact the passenger seat is barely usable once the infant seat is in? We have a Graco Snugride. Good call on the GS though - definitely a no brainer based on the cost. Assume the power of the IS350 is plenty for daily driving fun though?