Other SUV candidates
02-05-13, 09:26 AM
#16
No, I don't play soccer!
Handling is fine. Snow tires are a waste considering we don't get that much in NJ. And I haven't regretted not having them during the times we were blasted with storms left and right, like three years ago. It's my understanding from another thread that the F-Sport gets VDIM. It works great when there's just enough on the ground to make it slippery. Response is swift. BTW, I haven't been stuck once in the 14 1/2 years driving an RX.
02-05-13, 10:18 AM
#18
Lexus Champion
When it comes to snow tires, regardless of the car, it is like having an insurance. There are times when 2 extra feet of stopping distance makes a difference between having an accident and not having one.
I've been thankful many times for keeping 2 dedicated sets of tires.
I've been thankful many times for keeping 2 dedicated sets of tires.
02-05-13, 10:39 AM
#19
i drove the Toureg, Audi Q5, and Ford Edge, all well-equipped before buying the RX. Here's part of my driving notes:
Toureg - Best bluetooth integration, noisy interior, sluggish, slight turbo lag
Q5 - Best interior design (not quality), touchy brakes, no bluetooth audio, ride not plush
Edge - Best price, cons:Brand
Obviously there are reliability issues with the first two as well.
Toureg - Best bluetooth integration, noisy interior, sluggish, slight turbo lag
Q5 - Best interior design (not quality), touchy brakes, no bluetooth audio, ride not plush
Edge - Best price, cons:Brand
Obviously there are reliability issues with the first two as well.
02-05-13, 02:04 PM
#20
Lexus Champion
The RX is obviously the king kong in sales of luxury CUV's.
The others that we considered (RDX, Q5, X3 and GLK) all sell remarkably close to each other each month. I liked having all of these options to choose from.
The others that we considered (RDX, Q5, X3 and GLK) all sell remarkably close to each other each month. I liked having all of these options to choose from.
02-05-13, 03:04 PM
#21
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a few errors: RDX is now 6-cyl. 3.5L, w/ fuel economy better then Gen 1 (4-cyl. turbo), has most of amenities as standard, but you can't get electrical rear door, and some other fitures you can get in RX
Q5: Audi no longer uses plastic water pumps, and all of those failed within 1 year (ask me how I know that)-so WP is not a problem anymore; carbon build-up looks like a hyped issue-there are only 2-3 posts about carbon build up, I feel it could be caused by using cheap gas...
Q5 is fan to drive, esp. comparing to RX350-it is more fun to drive then CT200 I am driving last 2 days (loaner), which is smaller and lower then Q5.
Lexus vehicles appear to be made for every day drivers, not so much for fun driving...
PS
Audi Quattro is definitely superior to Lexus RX AWD-I clearly felt the difference last time we had some snow...
Q5: Audi no longer uses plastic water pumps, and all of those failed within 1 year (ask me how I know that)-so WP is not a problem anymore; carbon build-up looks like a hyped issue-there are only 2-3 posts about carbon build up, I feel it could be caused by using cheap gas...
Q5 is fan to drive, esp. comparing to RX350-it is more fun to drive then CT200 I am driving last 2 days (loaner), which is smaller and lower then Q5.
Lexus vehicles appear to be made for every day drivers, not so much for fun driving...
PS
Audi Quattro is definitely superior to Lexus RX AWD-I clearly felt the difference last time we had some snow...
i must say, the first gen rdx is a fun drive, but its gas sucks (17/23)
problems with q5:
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2841473
and
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-VW...05807412835647
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f20b8b7
but i give you the quattro, its the best awd ive ever seen...the top imo are audi, subaru, sh awd and xdrive
02-05-13, 09:02 PM
#22
Driver School Candidate
Couldn't get any love from our local Audi dealer - went three times to try and buy the Q5 and an A4 but no one would help me.
We own a 2011 X3 35i and the 2013 Rx350 F-Sport. The Lexus is slightly bigger and less involving to drive but i like it for different reasons as compared to the X3. We also have an M3 sedan but that gets mainly driven in the summer.
Both the X3 and the RX are great vehicles.
X3 is more involved, feels tighter and also makes me more confident as a driver. The RX is comfortable but feels bigger than the X3 but not as engaging.
Regarding reliability, we have over 40,000 km on the X3 with no problems. Just premium fuel and two oil changes (maintenance is covered by BMW). I have 5600 km on the RX and no problems. As the vehicles age, I fully expect to have mechanical issues with the BMW but not the Lexus.
Have fun looking - you'll know what you like after you test drive them.
02-06-13, 04:59 AM
#23
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I have owned the first gen RDX and loved it aside from the poor fuel economy from the turbo 4-banger.
Couldn't get any love from our local Audi dealer - went three times to try and buy the Q5 and an A4 but no one would help me.
We own a 2011 X3 35i and the 2013 Rx350 F-Sport. The Lexus is slightly bigger and less involving to drive but i like it for different reasons as compared to the X3. We also have an M3 sedan but that gets mainly driven in the summer.
Both the X3 and the RX are great vehicles.
X3 is more involved, feels tighter and also makes me more confident as a driver. The RX is comfortable but feels bigger than the X3 but not as engaging.
Regarding reliability, we have over 40,000 km on the X3 with no problems. Just premium fuel and two oil changes (maintenance is covered by BMW). I have 5600 km on the RX and no problems. As the vehicles age, I fully expect to have mechanical issues with the BMW but not the Lexus.
Have fun looking - you'll know what you like after you test drive them.
Couldn't get any love from our local Audi dealer - went three times to try and buy the Q5 and an A4 but no one would help me.
We own a 2011 X3 35i and the 2013 Rx350 F-Sport. The Lexus is slightly bigger and less involving to drive but i like it for different reasons as compared to the X3. We also have an M3 sedan but that gets mainly driven in the summer.
Both the X3 and the RX are great vehicles.
X3 is more involved, feels tighter and also makes me more confident as a driver. The RX is comfortable but feels bigger than the X3 but not as engaging.
Regarding reliability, we have over 40,000 km on the X3 with no problems. Just premium fuel and two oil changes (maintenance is covered by BMW). I have 5600 km on the RX and no problems. As the vehicles age, I fully expect to have mechanical issues with the BMW but not the Lexus.
Have fun looking - you'll know what you like after you test drive them.
02-06-13, 05:20 AM
#24
Driver School Candidate
02-06-13, 11:48 AM
#25
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We looked first at the X3 which was sportier than the 450h, but we often have passengers in the second row and the X3 has a big hump in the floor so a middle passenger would have no leg room. The 450h has more space and a bit more storage. Much better for second row passengers. For our needs the 450h was the best fit. I had thought about the Q5 hybrid, but from what I have read they are not importing that many and are selling it as a high end option, so I never test drove one. For a long time the Touareg TDI was my first choice until I started reading about small problems with the diesel system, so we never test drove that one either. After three months of ownership we are very happy with our 450h and for sure would buy the car again.
02-06-13, 01:01 PM
#26
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Not necessarily.. my daily driver is a Cayenne.
Surprised me at how similar in size the two are. Lining them up on the driveway, the length is almost identical. Front and rear seat leg-room, about identical. Front seat width - the Cayenne has about 2" more hip room. I suspect the rear seat is similarly a bit more spacious, but there is a center driveshaft hump. Cayenne seats aren't adjustable - plus for the RX.
The outside width looks very close, with the RX perhaps being an inch or two wider (but that may just be the look.. the Porsche front end is more tapered then the Lexus.) Weight - probably close. The Cayenne/S is no lightweight - comes in at around 4,700lbs.
Height looks identical.
Rear/luggage compartment - Cayenne is larger since it isn't sloped as much in the rear. Width is similar, depth is similar. Cayenne rear window opens independently of the tailgate if you want it to. I've never needed it though.
Comfort - tossup. The Cayenne seats are amazingly comfortable. The RX are good, but Porsche does have seat comfort down pat. HVAC - a lot simpler to control on the Cayenne, probably about the same functionality.
Options - either can be equipped with more options then any human could need or understand. The Porsche does come standard with a cooled glovebox (an AC vent goes right into it., and since the normal HVAC setting leaves the AC on year-round, it's always cooled.) The Porsche has more 12V outlets in the rear, and one more in the front then the RX. One-touch, auto-lights, rain-sensing, etc - all about the same.
Porsche navigation is a bit simpler to learn, and isn't disabled at speed.
Fit and finish of the interior? About equal - both have amazing quality. My Cayenne has a patterned aluminum trim package inside, but wood, paint and other metals were available. Also Porsche has a full-leather (dash, doors, every surface you touch or see basically) option, plus Alcantra headliners. Just takes money for those. Porsche interior looks more "function driven" rather then styled as the RX is.
What's considerably different is the driveline. The Porsche has a 4.5L V8 (~350HP, available up to 550HP with dual-turbos) lots of torque, and a very comprehensive full-time 4WD system, with a 32% front/68% rear power distribution. It has locking a front-rear differential, and locking side to side diffs. It will basically go through anything that doesn't lift the tires off the ground. It's also available as a hybrid with 570HP combined, and in Europe as a diesel.
Handling - Porsche has it hands down, at the expense of a slightly firmer (but not harsh) ride. MUCH wider tires (275-55/19's), 1.25" thick anti-roll bars. Double wishbone suspension front and rear. The full-time 4WD with rear-biased power distribution is a joy to those of us who love a rear-wheel drive feel. If you turn off the electo-nanny, you can easily get a nice corner drift going with the Porsche. And it's amazing in snow - especially with dedicated snow tires on it.
Air suspension was a Porsche option, with 4 different height settings. Dunno what the RX offered.
Brakes - the Porsche brakes are in a category of their own. The system is often used as an upgrade on other cars (including BMWs). 6 piston calipers with 390mm disks. It stops RIGHT NOW if needed. The RX one seems good, probably as good as most BMW systems, but I haven't done a full on "lets see how fast it will stop" test yet.
IMHO - The Porsche CPO is better then Lexus'. Porsche one is 100% the standard factory warranty for 2 years after the purchase date or 100k miles on the vehicle. The Lexus one depends on how old the used CPO is - mine is an '11, which means I only get 1 year of real CPO coverage (the normal warranty will cover me to '15) Factory warranty is about the same, Porsche (depending on the dealer somewhat) is remarkably generous in covering things.
Repair prices - points to Porsche actually. I checked list price on some identical parts, Porsche was about 20-25% less expensive then Lexus. Hourly labor rates are about the same in my area. Repair needs - points to Lexus, much less likely IMHO to need expensive repairs, at least for the first 10 years of ownership (which is true comparing it to any German car now.. and Porsche is rated as the most reliable German car.)
Fuel mileage: It's actually fairly easy to get 10-12 MPG on the Cayenne. It's also possible to get up to 20 MPG on a flat road at a constant speed. My usual mileage in it is about 16-18 MPG, we haven't had the RX long enough to know what it will do with my foot on the pedal. I'm hoping the RX does much better then the Cayenne. Both require premium, so no gain there.
Towing capacity - Porsche hands down. Rated for 8,000 lb trailer (with brakes) and no special trailer package needed.
Value - The RX has that in buckets new, a base Cayenne V6 starts at around $60k, and it's possible to spend upward of $125k on one. Great thing for people like me is - a used, nicely equipped Cayenne starts getting down into RX price range within 2-3 years, and a 4 year old CPO, shopped well can be had for less then a Honda. Of course that also means a new Lexus is retaining value much better then most any German car will.
Tossup on used ones. I suggested the Lexus RX to SWMBO since she wanted something that just started and ran whenever she wanted to use it. That hasn't been the case with the German cars I've owned (and that's quite a few of them now.)
Anyway - point is - it's possible to have all 3, comfort, utility AND performance. Just takes money - or being willing to buy a CPO car instead of a new one.
I've compared the Lexus to the attractive girl with a great personality who knows how to cook, clean, and love. The German cars are the hyper-hot girl, who has some quirks, doesn't give a damn about cooking and once in a while causes you real problems. What you chose depends on what you value.
I'm happy - I have both (vehicles).
(And a BMW M-Coupe in the garage alongside my BMW motorcycle.. for when I really want to have fun.)
Surprised me at how similar in size the two are. Lining them up on the driveway, the length is almost identical. Front and rear seat leg-room, about identical. Front seat width - the Cayenne has about 2" more hip room. I suspect the rear seat is similarly a bit more spacious, but there is a center driveshaft hump. Cayenne seats aren't adjustable - plus for the RX.
The outside width looks very close, with the RX perhaps being an inch or two wider (but that may just be the look.. the Porsche front end is more tapered then the Lexus.) Weight - probably close. The Cayenne/S is no lightweight - comes in at around 4,700lbs.
Height looks identical.
Rear/luggage compartment - Cayenne is larger since it isn't sloped as much in the rear. Width is similar, depth is similar. Cayenne rear window opens independently of the tailgate if you want it to. I've never needed it though.
Comfort - tossup. The Cayenne seats are amazingly comfortable. The RX are good, but Porsche does have seat comfort down pat. HVAC - a lot simpler to control on the Cayenne, probably about the same functionality.
Options - either can be equipped with more options then any human could need or understand. The Porsche does come standard with a cooled glovebox (an AC vent goes right into it., and since the normal HVAC setting leaves the AC on year-round, it's always cooled.) The Porsche has more 12V outlets in the rear, and one more in the front then the RX. One-touch, auto-lights, rain-sensing, etc - all about the same.
Porsche navigation is a bit simpler to learn, and isn't disabled at speed.
Fit and finish of the interior? About equal - both have amazing quality. My Cayenne has a patterned aluminum trim package inside, but wood, paint and other metals were available. Also Porsche has a full-leather (dash, doors, every surface you touch or see basically) option, plus Alcantra headliners. Just takes money for those. Porsche interior looks more "function driven" rather then styled as the RX is.
What's considerably different is the driveline. The Porsche has a 4.5L V8 (~350HP, available up to 550HP with dual-turbos) lots of torque, and a very comprehensive full-time 4WD system, with a 32% front/68% rear power distribution. It has locking a front-rear differential, and locking side to side diffs. It will basically go through anything that doesn't lift the tires off the ground. It's also available as a hybrid with 570HP combined, and in Europe as a diesel.
Handling - Porsche has it hands down, at the expense of a slightly firmer (but not harsh) ride. MUCH wider tires (275-55/19's), 1.25" thick anti-roll bars. Double wishbone suspension front and rear. The full-time 4WD with rear-biased power distribution is a joy to those of us who love a rear-wheel drive feel. If you turn off the electo-nanny, you can easily get a nice corner drift going with the Porsche. And it's amazing in snow - especially with dedicated snow tires on it.
Air suspension was a Porsche option, with 4 different height settings. Dunno what the RX offered.
Brakes - the Porsche brakes are in a category of their own. The system is often used as an upgrade on other cars (including BMWs). 6 piston calipers with 390mm disks. It stops RIGHT NOW if needed. The RX one seems good, probably as good as most BMW systems, but I haven't done a full on "lets see how fast it will stop" test yet.
IMHO - The Porsche CPO is better then Lexus'. Porsche one is 100% the standard factory warranty for 2 years after the purchase date or 100k miles on the vehicle. The Lexus one depends on how old the used CPO is - mine is an '11, which means I only get 1 year of real CPO coverage (the normal warranty will cover me to '15) Factory warranty is about the same, Porsche (depending on the dealer somewhat) is remarkably generous in covering things.
Repair prices - points to Porsche actually. I checked list price on some identical parts, Porsche was about 20-25% less expensive then Lexus. Hourly labor rates are about the same in my area. Repair needs - points to Lexus, much less likely IMHO to need expensive repairs, at least for the first 10 years of ownership (which is true comparing it to any German car now.. and Porsche is rated as the most reliable German car.)
Fuel mileage: It's actually fairly easy to get 10-12 MPG on the Cayenne. It's also possible to get up to 20 MPG on a flat road at a constant speed. My usual mileage in it is about 16-18 MPG, we haven't had the RX long enough to know what it will do with my foot on the pedal. I'm hoping the RX does much better then the Cayenne. Both require premium, so no gain there.
Towing capacity - Porsche hands down. Rated for 8,000 lb trailer (with brakes) and no special trailer package needed.
Value - The RX has that in buckets new, a base Cayenne V6 starts at around $60k, and it's possible to spend upward of $125k on one. Great thing for people like me is - a used, nicely equipped Cayenne starts getting down into RX price range within 2-3 years, and a 4 year old CPO, shopped well can be had for less then a Honda. Of course that also means a new Lexus is retaining value much better then most any German car will.
Tossup on used ones. I suggested the Lexus RX to SWMBO since she wanted something that just started and ran whenever she wanted to use it. That hasn't been the case with the German cars I've owned (and that's quite a few of them now.)
Anyway - point is - it's possible to have all 3, comfort, utility AND performance. Just takes money - or being willing to buy a CPO car instead of a new one.
I've compared the Lexus to the attractive girl with a great personality who knows how to cook, clean, and love. The German cars are the hyper-hot girl, who has some quirks, doesn't give a damn about cooking and once in a while causes you real problems. What you chose depends on what you value.
I'm happy - I have both (vehicles).
(And a BMW M-Coupe in the garage alongside my BMW motorcycle.. for when I really want to have fun.)I agree with many of the things you said. Though the build quality of the Cayenne seems a step up beyond the RX as it competes in a higher class than the Lexus. There are so many more options you can get on the Cayenne, my favorite so far is the heated steering wheel. Though there is no way to close the rear hatch without physically pressing the button on the hatch. Another neat feature is that you can turn both the heat seater and ventilation system on at the same time.
Additionally, there is not press button start. There is Porsche entry and drive which is an option that has a fake plastic key on the dash that you twist to start. Otherwise, without the option you insert the key like a normal car.
Hopefully the Cayenne won't be too troublesome when it comes to reliability. As for price difference, if you keep your options to a minimum then it is manageable. The base price of a Cayenne is 48,500. The sticker price of the RX450 I was about to purchase was 58k. The sticker on the Cayenne was $72,400 and mine is only a V6 however it was nicely equipped including the 21" Turbo II rims which is a 6k option.
02-07-13, 09:29 PM
#27
yea i said the first gen has the 4 banger...new has v6 but no sh awd
i must say, the first gen rdx is a fun drive, but its gas sucks (17/23)
problems with q5:
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2841473...
i must say, the first gen rdx is a fun drive, but its gas sucks (17/23)
problems with q5:
http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2841473...
I can't say about VW, but the issue w/ Q5 he had was atypical-no one else posted same problem.
RX is not perfect either -I just pickued it up after a 10K service, also reported some other issues happening in cold temp.-reply: "we could not replicate", "it works". .
At least they re-installed the remote start module which was installed by dealer when I bought the RX-the module was glued by double-sided tape to something else, and fell off after 5 months.
I had to show the dealer the installation instruction for the module I found online, because at first I was given usual BS "It was done by the technician as per Lexus instructions"..
After some experience w/ Volvo, LR, Audi, and Honda dealers I now believe that the less you go to the dealer the less chance they have to screw something up, so Lexus/Toyota should be the best.
Still, RX is no fun to drive and Audi Q5 is. But I hope I don't have to go to the Lexus dealer ever again after that 10K service which was free.
02-08-13, 08:28 AM
#28
Lexus Champion
...I now believe that the less you go to the dealer the less chance they have to screw something up, so Lexus/Toyota should be the best.
Still, RX is no fun to drive and Audi Q5 is. But I hope I don't have to go to the Lexus dealer ever again after that 10K service which was free.
Still, RX is no fun to drive and Audi Q5 is. But I hope I don't have to go to the Lexus dealer ever again after that 10K service which was free.
I do not go to the dealer unless I absolutely have to. That way, there's less of a chance of someone screwing up. That's where Lexus has an upper hand on the competition.
02-08-13, 05:35 PM
#30
