kitlz

UCSB, thank you for your posts. I was thinking of pointing out the differences between the 350 and 450h to offset the extra cost just like you did. Not that I could put a value on it because it goes beyond that. Anyway, it is appreciated.

This topic resurfaces every few months with the same results. Only the numbers change. Now it's time to go hug my 450h

07grIS350

A friend of mine, who is clearly on the non-hybrid side of this calculation, made this statement "You are chosing to have a bigger headache only once, and the rest are picking a series of smaller headaches during the ownership of their vehicles".
I think there is some truth to it. There is a certain mental satisfaction knowing that I am using a lot less gas when I drive my RXh daily. How do put a value on that? The other aspect of this item is, in reality (at least for me), people tend to forgot about the spent money, and worry a lot more about future expenditures.
Call me weird, but maybe the extra money for hybrid can be viewed as the cost of mental therapy?

Cruiter

I think you may have hit the nail square on the head . Those statements resonate for me.

HWDRX

Hello all,
I have the RX450h AWD. I can tell you that I get 26 MPG all day long in mixed driving. Does not matter what i do, short of trying to burn the tires off. I actually drive moderately. Use that MPG when calculating. I highly doubt most of the "H" models actually hit the target MPG estimates.

Nobody takes into account the amount saved when sitting at lights or not moving. I contend that one should be calculating the monthy or yearly fuel cost over a comparable gas RX, along with all of the other factors. I am aware this is not really possible in most cases.

One other thing. The Hybrid rides better. The batteries seem to help crush the bumps. I would call the ride "less lively", if that makes sense. I like it.

Cruiter

Ed, welcome to the club. You'll like it here. The car actually can get mileage in the 30mpg range but you have to learn to let it teach you how do drive a hybrid. Seriously, it's a different driving style. Less aggressive but you can still get places on time if you allow a couple of extra minutes.

There is an app called "fuelly app" available for smart phones that will keep track for you not only of mileage but total driving cost over time. It's free, try it out.

Again, welcome

kitlz

Have you checked out this thread? Even I get great mileage with the hills and spirited driving.

UCSB

I have been able to hit the EPA numbers with my FWD 450h ... that is a 30 MPG average. Also, in response to an earlier comment that the 450h performance is like a 4 cylinder and there is no performance on tap: this is a ridiculous statement. Depending on the mode (normal, ECO) you are driving in, you may need to depress the accelerator more before the power kicks in. Remember, you are using a drive by wire car with the car's computer attempting to understand what your priority is at a given time. There is significant power on tap in the 450h and the character of the car can be changed dramatically by how you configure and drive it.

Paul B

My wife and I are happy with our purchase of the RX 350 we just made, but I suspect strongly that if we choose a future RX 350, we will strongly look at the hybrid version.

I'm not sure why the post was removed, or by whom, but perhaps it was inaccurate. The one thing that did concern me was his statement that when the bank of batteries needs to be replaced after 8 years and 100K miles, one is looking at an $8,000. expense. That seemed awfully high to me. The other statement made was that when the electric motors reach a certain age, they need to be redone or I think he said recored to improve their magnetic properties to the tune of thousands of dollars in expense. I really did not understand that at all.

Any truth to either of those statements?

Paul

BertL

When I asked my SA a couple years back about battery replacement in my 2006 RX400h (1st gen original Lexus hybrid) his response was that the first customer had just replaced a Prius battery because it had "worn out" and it was about $3K, and he didnt know of any RX in the US that needed a battery or other hybrid component to be replaced yet because it had "worn out". I told him that my concern was Lexus wouldn't sell anything beyond a 7-year extended warranty on my 2006 when I purchased the truck, and i was told at the time (2005) there was just not enough long term experience with hybrids to make it available. I was at the time trying to consider if I should keep hanging on to my RX or be worried when the 8 year standard warranty expired on the hybrid components. Since then of course, Lexus Financial sells the same long term high mileage ext warranties on the RX450h as any non-hybrid vehicles, and there is now what, 1 million Prius that have been sold?

I guess I wouldn't plan to hold on to a hybrid from any manufacturer like some people do with 20+ year-old beat up gas-only pickup trucks you see running around, and am not expecting my hybrid to become some sort of collectors classic one day, but am certainly not worried for the 5-7 years I hold on to a vehicle, and not at all to 8 years because of the standard warranty. If I planned to keep any hybrid from anyone for 8 years+, given the technology we have today, well, there would be a new battery in my financial planning somewhere beyond that... How far out that is, is anyone's guess. I guess I discarded the guy's comments without further substantiation -- there are lots of people with opinions that post here and I at least have had a RX hybrid for 7 years without any hybrid problems , and have confidence in the quality of this brands products after 18 years of ownership. I have no question in my mind about taking delivery on my 2nd hybrid RX any day now, and am hopeful every time my phone rings that it's my dealer with the news it's arrived and ready for pickup.

Cruiter

Bert, that's a nice story and goes with many others we've heard. Thanks

UCSB

In California, the California Air Resources Board has a regulation that requires the hybrid battery to be warranted for 10 years. So if you are a CA driver, you can relax and not worry about the battery for 10 years (check your state's regulations for your warranty). That makes sense to me. The CA ARB estimates that hybrid battery replacement costs at that point in time will be in the $2,000 range. I don't know about the RX, but Prius replacement batteries from 3rd party suppliers are about $1,800 now (OEM batteries a little more).

When I purchased my car, I thought I was told that the service tech's can check the status of each of the individual energy packs in the hybrid battery pack. If there is a problem with one, they can exchange an individual pack(s) as required. If I still own this car later, I think I will ask service to check my battery pack status before my warranty expires in 2020.

Lexus' position is that the battery pack is designed to last the life of the car.

Not related, but I thought I would just remind hybrid owners and prospective owners that many auto insurance companies offer discounts for hybrid cars on your policy. I get a 5% discount. Just another way to add a few dollars to your breakeven calculations each year.

Not related, but shows the power of hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles. Talked to my brother yesterday. He had picked up a 2012 Plug-in Prius in early April. He is a pretty dedicated hyper miler; he told me he is averaging 290 MPG in his usage pattern. 290 MPG!!! He said he is getting a good feel for the car. He told me while he was learning to drive the car he had gone 1,600 miles on his last 8.x gallon fill-up (remember, he also had to charge the car using electricity to get this range). 1,600 miles between fill-ups!!! To me this really gives you an idea of the potential in these kinds of vehicles.

Paul B

Thank you gentlemen, for the clarifications.

lexusx10

The difference in the resale value needs to be included in the conversation

NateJG

...I keep this ongoing calculation going every time I add fuel to my 2013 RXh:

21.0 Estimated MPG for the RX 350 (Note: Plug in this number to calculate)
$3.333 Price per Gallon (estimated at $0.30 less than for Premium)
1,148.4 Gallons at 21 MPG
$3,828 Cost if at 21 MPG for RX 350
$3,224 Spent (RX 450 Hybrid actual)
$604 Saved in fuel thus far vs the RX 350
18.7% It would cost this much more to run Regular at 21 MPG in an RX 350
84.2% It costs this much of what it would cost to run the RX350 on Regular vs 450h
$0.159 Per Mile for RX 350
$0.025 Saved per mile using my Hybrid (based upon actual historical prices)
$6,600 Upcharge for Hybrid vs RX 350 (Note: Plug in this number to calculate)
264,000 Miles needed to break even for $6600 upcharge for Hybrid vs RX 350
261.0 Gallons Not Burned (saved the planet) - because I'm running the Hybrid
29.4% Better fuel economy in the 450h vs 21 MPG in an RX 350
15.8% In fuel cost savings vs what it would be if in the RX 350
$5,996 Yet to save in order to pay off the upcharge of $6600 for the Hybrid vs the RX 350
9.1% of the $6600 cost of the RX 450h upcharge has been recovered by saving $0.025 per mile vs the RX 350
121% I'm getting this much MPG compared to the Passat at 22.5 MPG on Premium
20,006 Miles per year driven based upon 440 days owned.
10.0 Years of use available to reach 200,000 mile Maximum Service Life at the current rate of use.
55 Miles per Day driven thus far
1,667 Miles per Month driven thus far in Alexis only
$2,675 Per year at $223 per month in gasoline thus far.
$757 Per year in gas for Izzy (at 5K miles/year)
$3,432 Per year in gas for Izzy and Alexis


Note that, using the fuel prices at 27.3 MPG for the last 24,000 miles, it would take me 264,000 miles to offset the $6,600 upcharge for the hybrid.

Alexis is the car's name; Izzy is my BMW Z4's name (I drive it about 4~5K summer miles)
'
In conclusion/summary: the hybrid was an emotional, not a cerebral, purchase decision.

The Snow Mode traction (AWD balance on ice) is phenomenal!

vlad_a

Why does everyone try to calculate how long it will take to offset a premium on an RX450h?
This ain't a Prius! This hybrid competes with V8 peers, as it makes more power. Hence the 450 designation.
Would buying a V8 ever pay for itself in another vehicle?
What we get is the best of both worlds - improved fuel economy and better power delivery.
Did I mention the drivetrain is more refined in the Hybrid?

Also, in the long run, it is not $6K premium. Let's say in 5 years the 450h will be $3K more than its 350 counterpart. I will keep it simple and not get into into interest calculations again.