salimshah

There are technical reasons for changing engine oil. The combustion bye products are carried by the oil and need to be drained out and replaced.

Still waiting to her technical reasons for ATF like

Shear, metal particles, shelf/use life etc.

Once we get to the technical reasons, we can make a better call on how frequent the fluid should be replaced.

Salim

iolmaster

iTrader: (1)

Once again, if you think you know more about the engineering of the vehicle or the fluids than the people that wrote the manual or the service advisors at the Lexus dealerships you are always at liberty to do whatever you wish with your car. I know where my money is.

shikbas

Salim take it easy. I understand your point Regarding the toyota techs they will not be there when your transmission will fail and u have to pay thousands to be fixed

ukrkoz

people that wrote manuals are hired force for Toyota and WILL write only what benefits Toyota. Toyota is not a charity but a business enterprise, interested in profit, not making cars that run forever, as then how they will be selling more cars, parts and services? They have what is called vested interest.
That said, you can actually believe anyone you want to, but always remember the old and centuries proven principle - Qui Bono? Who benefits from....? Who benefits when transmission fails? Surely way past measly 50 000 warranty? I know where your money will be then - in dealer/Toyota pocket.
I have seen so many pictures of "lifetime" fluids, drained in relatively short intervals, looking like crap, that it is not even entertaining anymore. I have - had - two hybrids, where Toyota WS bears NO hydraulic function, as hybrids do not have automatic transmission and fluid is simple splash lubricant and coolant for motor generators. With that LITTLE stress on it, I replaced it every 50 000 miles (same claim, lifetime) and every time it comes out discolored and failing simple lay comparison to fresh fluid. Now, take same WS fluid and use in actual transmission, where it is subject to high stress hydraulic forces, friction and heat. What will common sense tell you? That Toyota people are gods and somehow made it last lifetime in much harsher environment?
Here's entertaining thread:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...on-now.331521/
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...ion-fluid.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+t...w=1920&bih=916

So yes, it is matter of faith, personal one, not really if WS lasts lifetime. Like one poster said - sure, it IS lifetime. Your transmission is not, though.
I'll quote one poster.
IF WS ATF IS LIFETIME WHY DOES TRANSMISSION NOT COME WITH LIFETIME WARRANTY?

Clutchless

I had a MINI Cooper S with a very similar if not the same Aisen 6 speed transmission, which was also used by Volkswagen in some models. Aisen is owned by Toyota. They sell transmissions to a many car companies such as those above and others. Both MINI (owned by BMW) and VW said never change the fluid. However VW began to have an alarming number of transmission failures and changed their tune to advise a fluid change every 40,000 miles. You can Google this to confirm. It also had the same insane temperature overflow fluid adustment procedure, so I just did cold drain and fills of 2 quarts at a time. I did this initally at 20 some thousand miles, doing 2 drain and fills a week apart, then once a year thereafter. I do the same on my RX. The fluid looked terrible the first time. The fluid does become full of wear particles and does lose anti wear and shear additives that wear over time reducing lubrication ability. It costs about $5,000 for a new transmission. It only costs a couple hundred to do a fluid flush and far less to do your own fluid cold drain and fills. I think the cost benefit is worth it. I also quit using WS and switched to MAG 1 low viscosity full synthetic multi vehicle automatic transmission fluid which improved the transmission performance. It shifted faster and smoother with MAG 1. You can get 6 packs of it on Amazon.

salimshah

I am way cool about the issue. Its ok to have an opinion and meaningful discussion happens when we have an open mind. I dont have any preconceived position that the transmission fluid should not be changed or must be changed. If my post came across as a proponent of never change, then this statement should make it clear.

My intent is to bring reason into the discussion and help users come to the conclusion that makes most sense if not most comfortable.

Once folks decide that the fluid is not for life, then they need to decide the frequency of change and that can be established by deeper understanding of the issue.

Scare tactics at times helps but at times hurts. Many of the un-inofrmed owners have opted for full flushes and that can be disastrous for the autoTrans.

Salim

salimshah

Cluthless raises a very interesting point. The debris/wear particles. Classic transmission was steel gears and had magnets to capture the debris and some of the nonmagnetic stuff ended up as sediments (gravity-based). Assuming there was not excessive pumping the sediments remained settled below and drain and fill took care of it. Unfortunately a pressure driven flush would dislodge the sediments and send them flying all over causing sudden horrible death of transmission.
The other bad thing is what if some component is not magnetic like some of the aluminum based products. Broken of pieces will remain in the fluid. So wearing of such materials in the transmission would warrant replacement of fluid, but if the part breaks before being ground down the transmission would be dead.

Salim

Clutchless

The filter screen is more like something in a window and only stops the big bugs or pieces of debris. Some folks do install better inline filters such as the Magnefine to catch the smaller stuff and prolong fluid life.

Here is a VW forum discussion of VW calling for fluid changes in the 09G Aisin transmission. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...smission-fluid

And here is a list of Aisin transmission and models that use them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._transmissions

iolmaster

iTrader: (1)

You think the Mini Cooper and the VW have the same transmission as the RX350. I think that is highly unlikely. Just because it is made by the same company does not indicate there will be problems across the board. You have included some links to forum discussions as some sort of proof. Please send me a link to an independent source and I will be more than willing to consider it. I am familiar with Aisin and Toyota has a 23% stake in the company. First you should learn how to spell the company name.

Cocal

It's not that I know more than the engineers, but I KNOW that the manual written by engineers is revised by the marketing department as I KNOW of the problems that other makes have had with this "no need to change the ATF ever" MB, Audi, BMW are only 3 examples. Do YOU know what/how long lifetime is? I can only comment on my experiences you are free to do whatever you wish. Also if you read my posts you'd have noticed that my dealer also recommends this fluid change. As I said if you only keep the car for a couple of years it doesn't matter, if you do keep it longer and don't change the ATF save your money as you'll need it for tranny repairs or replacement

Cocal

You are right Salim, older machines used to flush under power the new ones are a lot better and thanks to electronics do a much better job. Also they use a rather weak pump strong enough to push the fluid through to make the exchange (they call it exchange now). If this is done regularly and the 1st not after 50-60K miles there are no debris to speak of and all goes through the tubes. The problems they had in the past were due to excessive force of the flush combined with the fact that most people waited till about 100K mile before doing the exchange and by then varnish and other deposits would have formed and it was then that problems arised. I'm a great believer in preventive maintenance a lot cheaper than remedial one

ukrkoz

As they say, one pic worth thousand words.

54 000 miles. I guess it speaks for itself. I set ticker to 5 000 miles, will do several more drain/fills, not hard to do at all.

Also, I used Valvoline MaxxLife full synthetic ATF. On its label clearly states recommended for Toyota vehicles, on the back - as WS substitute. I guarantee they would not post that, unless it's a fact.

iolmaster

iTrader: (1)

So, you guarantee that what is on the back of the ATF container is fact but what is in the Lexus manual is not. Hmm, sounds like a double standard to me. I have ocean front property in Colorado you may be interested in. It has a great view. Says so right on the label.

lexus114

if you want 200k trouble free miles on the trans? exchange every 30k that is what i do. if you dont plan on keeping the car, then don't change it.

salimshah

Complete exchange or drain and fill?
Why not 40K or 20K?
Is there any adjustment you recommend based on driving conditions and how much weight you pull?
What if any one wants more than 200K? Is the 200K mark, expected milage for the transmission.

Salim