Threxx

I figured if there was any time for Toyota/Lexus to fix the sludge issue, the conversion to the new 3.3L would be a good time to do it.

So does anyone know if Lexus has made any significant changes to keep the sludge build up issue from effect the new 3.3L V6? I know only time will tell for sure, but still... I wonder if they've made any official statements or hints in that direction?

VVT-i

Only official statement I've seen is ' Change your oil regularly'. I've seen a lot of RX and ES over 100k with regular oil change and they have no problem at all.

Threxx

I know there are RX300s and ES300s with plenty of miles and no sludge problems, but then again there are plenty of others that have experienced the problem.

The question at hand, though, is was the issue resolved for the new 3.3L?

In other words, if 10% of ES300 and RX300 owners experience the sludge problem when using 5k mile oil change intervals with generic oil, will the RX330 only experience 0.1% like most other normal cars?

JRB

I guess only time will tell, but my instincts tell me that Toyota would have taken steps in the design of the revised engine to address this issue. They make the most reliable cars in the business, and no doubt they took this seriously. I also believe that most owners who have experienced the sludge problem have themselves to blame, as I think the majority simply did not change their oil often enough. As a precautionary measure I plan to switch to synthetic oil at our first oil change, after the engine is broken in, and stay with synthetic for the life of the vehicle.

mooretorque

I believe that, if you run the numbers, the sludge issue affected around 0.2% of all T/L 3.0 L V6s (~6000 motors of more than 3 million V6s, last I read........that's quite a bit less than 300,000!).

Lexmexico

GENERIC OIL?

People, if you are surfing this board, I surely hope you realize synthetic is the only way to go.

Threxx

Mooretorque, from what I've seen that number is significantly higher. Maybe not 10%... I was just using that as an example. But still higher than 0.2% from what I've seen.

Even if it is only 0.2%, you have to realize that the 0.2% you see reported is usually people who's motors needed a rebuild under warranty. What about the people who have sludge inside their motor that affects its drivability, but don't know it and have just assumed that their motor doesn't run quite as well as it used to? Those people aren't included in the 0.2%
What about the people that needed to have their motor rebuilt outside of warranty? Many of those people were probably never included.

Lexmexico, I'm probably one of the biggest advocates of sythetic oil that I know of. I refuse to use anything but Mobil 1 synthetic and I preach its benefits to all of my friends and family who have, for the most part, made the switch as well.

But what you have to realize is that no matter what, the majority of the people on this planet gravitate towards low price and convenience and have no idea why they should use sythetic instead of 'whatever the quick lube place puts in there for me'.

Furthermore, people shouldn't have to use any sort of expensive oil, filter, or oil change intervals on a LEXUS, if they don't have to do so on your average chevy, ford, or BMW. That just goes against the core reason a person would buy a Lexus over any other car in the first place.

parula

Mooretorque, if the number is 0.2% it is hard to believe Lexus and Toyota would send sludge letters to RX and Camry owners respectively, which they did apparently as a friend of mine got one for his Camry; same engine right?

Lex, I believe someone posted on CL that BMW ships with synthetic?

JRB

Audi's and Porsche's now ship with synthetic. On my previous car, an Audi allroad, it shipped with 0W-30, which to the best of my knowledge is not available in a dino oil. In the RX330 (non-turbo) I plan on using Mobil 1 5W-30 year around.

500amg

Mercedes is factory fill synthetic as well...my car came with 0W-40 Mobil 1. The system also calculates your oil change interval based on engine temp, speed, etc. 8.5 quart fill. I'm due for one at 10,500 miles.

mooretorque

Threxx, point is well taken and I don't disagree that there was/is still more fire under the smoke. Long ago when hell was still being raised esp over on Edmunds RX board and before any of the sludge letters went out, I contended that there were almost certainly a large number of less voluble folks and that, while some may have abused their motors, there were too many instances of well documented, regular oil changes for T/L to maintain that the problem was strictly one of poor owner maintainence. Finally, that regardless of the actual incidence, there definitely was a widening PERCEPTION that there was a problem, a la mid 80s Audi (see below).

As far as sending out letters to ALL V6 owners, it would appear that T/L learned the lesson of Audi (absolutely no corporate response to the unintended acceleration assassination by "60 Minutes" back in the mid 80s with resultant sales nose dive that lasted more than a decade) and Suzuki (whom Consumer Reports accused of rollover instability which was, in turn, vigorously denied by Suzuki and for whom not even the slightest downward blip of sales occured). So T/L aggressively pursued the issue, finally more or less trumping the hand with the "8 year warranty" letter. As far as those who had a motor rebuilt prior to the letter, it specifically states that those costs as well as those of alternate transportation will be reimbursed on case by case basis (meaning, "show me your receipts", which I don't think is unreasonable). Since I currently have a 99 RX bought new, I've received both letters that were sent out just as your friend did.

Now, with all that said, my initial post was mostly just reacting to the 10% figure as being hyperbolic. And I've put synthetics in my cars since the introduction of good ol' M1.

parula

In the long run I still believe, jmo, that L/T would be better served by installing synthetic and recommending it. It seems trivial to even be debating this issue (on their part, not here) as they can only benefit in the long run I believe by making the best quality cars for the long term, remember the Deming approach?!

I think L/T should at least install synth., use it exclusively for their dealer oil changes and require receipts etc. for trade and warranty confirmations. This would likely delay or ameliorate the sludge issue as the sythetic would probably clean out engines of those who took the dino route between dealer visits.

I think that would put L/T cars a notch above the rest on trades. But then maybe L/T has figured all this out and thinks many don't care about engine quality when buying used cars.

LexFather

My ES has 203k miles, my pops SC has 210k miles, my GS has 110k miles, no dang sludge issues.

WHY?

Cause we change the oil AS WE SHOULD every 3-7k miles, and as the car gets older, every 3 k.

Rock

My GS has 120k miles, no issues at all. I am using Mobil 1 5W-30 synthetic oil with Mobil oil filter every 3k to 5k. I will continue to use Mobil's synthetic on my new RX330.

RickC

The key is changing the oil. Here is an article on extended drain oils. Very good reading actually.

http://www.motoroilbible.com/eight.html


RickC