pauljcl

I had a blow-out (due to my hitting a jutting piece of pavement) and the tire is ruined. Thanks to the refusal of my Lexus dealer to rotate tires including the spare, I had four 15K miles tires and one new (the spare). I have ordered a new tire, and will thus have three used and two new. I intend to dedicate a used one as the spare, and put the new tires in the front, the older tires in the back, on the assumption that - even though I have a AWD - the front tires will wear faster than the back, as more effort is directed through them (steering+'pull'), and because I have read that most people believe the AWD has a 'front drive' bias. What do you think? Any difference between front and rear wear (if so - which ones wear faster?) - or no difference?

Adamjeeps

Put the 2 new tires on the front, will drive much better, assuming they are the same make tire. And yes, the fronts will wear faster.

monkeyRX

i have an 07 350 awd and my understanding was that the awd is 50/50 split.

This is copied from another post -

Lexus Announces
Prices for 2008 Model Year RX 350 Luxury SUV
01/26/2007 Torrance,
CA
Revised: 04/02/2007

March 29, 2007 – Torrance, CA - Lexus
has announced manufacturers suggested retail prices (MSRP) for the2008 RX 350,
the top-selling luxury sport utility vehicle (SUV). For 2008, the RX 350
receives exterior enhancements that include a freshened front-grille design and
new exterior chrome door handles. New seven-spoke 18-inch alloy wheels with a
Liquid Graphite finish are available as an option. The 2008 RX 350 also adds two
new exterior colors: Brandy Wine Mica and Desert Sage Metallic. Inside, the RX
350 offers an additional wood trim color, Black Bird’s-Eye Maple, on units with
a light gray interior.

The RX 350 retains its excellent value as the MSRP
will remain unchanged from 2007. Prices for the RX 350 will remain at $37,400
for the front-wheel-drive model and $38,800 for the all-wheel-drive model. All
optional equipment prices also remain unchanged.

Powerful
Performance
Powered by a 3.5-liter V6 engine, the RX 350 produces 270
horsepower and 251 lb.-ft. of torque. Featuring all-aluminum construction, the
V6 harnesses the benefits of advanced technologies to optimize performance, fuel
economy and low emissions. The V6 enables the RX 350 to sprint from zero to 60
mph in just 7.3 seconds for the FWD model and 7.4 seconds for the AWD model.

The performance of the RX 350 is
comparable to the output of some competitive V8 engines while still providing a
fuel-economy rating among the best in class for nonhybrids.

Its
five-speed electronically controlled automatic transmission is tuned for refined
drivability as well as excellent fuel efficiency. EPA-estimated combined fuel
economy rating for the RX 350 is 20 mpg (18 mpg city/23 mpg highway) for the
FWD
model and 19 mpg (17 mpg city/22 mpg highway) for the AWD. The RX 350 retains its ULEV II emissions
certification.

The highly sophisticated engine uses electronically
controlled sequential fuel injection, which optimizes the fuel mixture and
creates a precise burn, higher output and lower emissions to aid drivability. In
addition, an electronic throttle control presides over several systems to
maintain superior control of power flow. This system, Electronic
Throttle
Control with intelligence (ETC-i), helps manage idle speed, cruise control,
Traction Control (TRAC) and Vehicle Stability Control (VSC). The result is
engine efficiency with excellent power and impressive fuel
economy.

Refined Comfort and Luxury Features
The RX 350 produces
minimal cabin noise, allowing for a very quite interior that provides an
exceptional listening environment for its standard premium,
satellite-ready,eight-speaker AM/FM/CD audio player with in-dash six-CD
autochanger. The audio system is compatible with MP3/WPA-formatted CDs and
includes Automatic Sound Levelizer (ASL), Radio Data System (RDS) and a digital
signal processor. Commonly used audio functions are accessible via
steering-wheel-mounted controls.

For true audiophiles, a Mark Levinson®
Premium Audio System is optionally available. This 11-speaker system features an
in-dash six-disc DVD/CD autochangeR, DVD-audio and DVD-video playback as well as
remarkable sound clarity at all volumes (with 210 watts at 0.1% THD, 20-20,000
Hz). An available factory-installed, rear-seat DVD entertainment system features
a nine-inch fold-away video screen for convenient viewing.

The Lexus DVD
Navigation System is optionally available on the RX 350 and includes voice
recognition that allows the driver to input a desired destination by voice
command while driving.

Like other Lexus navigation systems, the system is
offered in conjunction with a rear back-up camera to supplement the driver’s
visibility of the area behind the vehicle. The camera provides the driver a view
of what the camera lens can detect behind the vehicle, automatically projecting
a color image on the navigation system’s seven-inch VGA screen when the reverse
gear is engaged.

In addition to English, the navigation system includes
Spanish and French text display options. The user can select the language
preference at system start-up.

Lexus’ craftsmanship and renowned
attention to detail provide sumptuous comfort by design. Standard dual-zone
automatic climate control, 10-way power front seats with available memory, a
sliding center console, adjustable light in the visor vanity mirrors, and wood
interior trim set the tone for luxury in the RX 350. Luxury extends to the
smallest details, such as illuminated front cup holders and a wood- and
leather-trimmed steering wheel with integrated audio-system and trip-computer
controls.

Premium options include a power-tilt/telescoping steering wheel
with memory, and an illuminated entry system that lights the door handles, scuff
plates, and front footwells.

A unique, wide-opening multipanel moonroof
is an optional alternative to the optional conventional moonroof. With an open
area that is 150-percent larger than a normal moonroof and a 250-percent larger
illumination area, the multipanel moonroof is made of three separate glass
panels. The small front panel is angled to reduce wind noise, the rear panel
slides backwards on top of the vehicle, while the middle glass panel slides
backwards on top of the rear panel.

Advanced All-Wheel Drive
The AWD RX 350 model features a viscous limited-slip center
differential, which enhances drivability in all types of driving conditions. The
full-time AWD system provides a constant 50/50
front-to-rear power split. If slippage occurs, the viscous
differential
directs torque to the wheels with the most traction.

A direct-type Tire
Pressure Monitor (TPM) system alerts the driver via a warning light on the
instrument panel if a significant drop in tire pressure is detected in any of
the tires.

Produced in Kyushu, Japan, and Cambridge in southern Ontario,
Canada, the 2008 RX 350 begins arriving at Lexus dealerships in early February.

txt

Lexus recommended tire rotation to even out the wear/tear on the tires.
Front tires likely will have more wear/tear b/c they are steered and they bear more weight then rear tires.

Haunches

Is rotating the spare common practice at the dealer when a full size spare is included? I don't think I've ever had my spare included in the rotation.

RX330inFL

Unfortunately, no. At least not at the dealers I have visited. Actually got into an argument with a Service Manager over such.

Haunches

Just looked and the owners manual states that the spare should be rotated in as well.

I used to rotate my trucks spare which is located in the same place as the RX350's but I'll admit once I got lazy and skipped a few times, I haven't done it since.

salimshah

Every one is right that the most wear is on the fronts. Even asymmetrical wear happens more in the front.

Studies show that the best traction needs to be on rear wheels (even for front wheel drive) .. Better traction at rear means it is harder for the rear to loose traction and swing out. I am old school and I put the newer tires in the front. Old habits die hard.

If you use directional tires, then it is best to keep bi-directional tire as a spare and only do a front to back rotation (swap really).

If the tires are bi-directional (the std issue) then you have the choice of including the spare in rotation or not. You being the owner decides and the service people are there to serve you.

I do not include the spare in the rotation as I prefer purchasing 2 at a time. I am sure the other opinion is equally valid and all 4 or 5 give close to identical traction.

Salim

RX330inFL

Thus, my argument with the Service Manager.

txt

Maybe I am a bit naive but I don't worry too much about the rear tires losing control since newer cars have ABS and Vehicle stability control.
So my 2 new tires go to the front and 2 older tires go to the rear.

pauljcl

Thank you all for your great comments. I am also going to add my $0.02 on those comments....
1. I see no-one disagrees that the front tires wear faster
2. The 50/50 split front/rear power is interesting - thank you (MonkeyRX) for the info. In that case, the fronts will surely wear faster because of the steering effort and because more weight is on the front wheels, and also because more braking effort takes place on the front wheels I fully agree with Txt)
3. I am not so conservative that I believe that the rear wheels should always have the 'better' tires, which contemporary conservative theory believes is the case because it believes that the average driver can react better to front drift than to rear drift, which, having driven enough tracks, I don't agree with for myself. Anyway, nowadays a lot of the traction/slide controls change the reactions of cars at the limit (SalimShah and Txt)
4. In my opinion, the Lexus requirement to 'rotate' tires every 5,000 miles is purely due to the inclusion of the spare in the rotation sequence. This frequent rotation minimizes wear differences among tires. [It also produces income for the Lexus dealers, but they usually refuse to include the spare!]. In fact, in real life, I have found that my tires have worn very evenly, and I rotate at what I estimate to be between 1/3 and 1/2 life of the tires, with the rotation being simply moving the fronts to the back and vice-versa, keeping them on the same side of the car (what SalimShah calls a 'swap'). This is to maintain the same rotation direction they have 'set' into, in the event such maintenance is required, which may be stuff of urban legend. I view it as a 'no-downside' rotation system, except that the spare remains unused, which can be a problem if one is concerned about the age of tires when one buys new ones, or if the manufacturer stops producing the same model of tire (in which case my spare remains as a spare, for temporary use if needed). If the wear of the tires on any one 'axle' is not even, then there is a need to check and set alignment. Just rotating the tires to 'even the wear out' is less good a solution than correcting alignment. But on rear drive vehicles, the rear tires usually wear faster, and the rotation I described allows to wear all tires down to about the same level when the life of the tire approaches its end.

Conclusion: the new tires will go on the front and the 15K-miles ones will go on the rear. Thank you all - problem solved!

salimshah

All the automated systems work within a certain range. Once the tail swings out, physics rules. Although I have chosen to disregard the study and so have you, but we can not dismiss the scientific study and should let the readers make their own choice. If I am not mistaken the study was conducted on modern vehicles with stability control and there was apparently no ulterior motive behind it.


Salim

pauljcl

Yes, but most cars (like the RX350) are heavily under-steering to start with. Also, I have some difficulty believing that the rear would swing out more if the rear tires have,say, 60% of the tread left, except possibly but unlikely conditions where water is so thick on the ground that adhesion is lost, which 'might' happen earlier in the rear. And, of course physics rule, but 'once the tail swings out' other security systems come into play (which I notice particularly with my BMW, which intervenes as soon as there is rear sliding). I have 'swung the tail' on the RX yet.

filmteknik

In 55,000 miles on the 2008 OEM Michelin Energy tires I noticed slightly more wear in front but just barely. And I only rotated a few times.

I did not include the spare in the rotation. The book says to include it on one side only and I didn't want the uneven wear with one side having the wear shared among 3 tires while the other side only 2. Is that no-changing-sides on radials rule still the recommendation? If I could have done a full crossover rotation I would have as it would have lengthened overall life. I just got Bridgestones so the spare (still the original Michelin) will remain emergency use only rather than run dissimilar tires.

Steve

pauljcl

Tks, Steve!
Actually, I don't think the newer recommendations of rotation are concerned about not-changing-sides on rotation. I'm just an old dog remembering old tricks. I always wondered whether it made sense, though, because if you really have 'shifting' or 'adjusting' belts, it is a recipe for disaster whether you change sides or not....