Driver seat click noise
10-22-10, 11:21 AM
#16
Well here's good luck to you!
10-22-10, 11:22 AM
#17
Are you sure that the noise is coming from the cabin and not from the wheel well?
10-22-10, 12:03 PM
#18
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I am not too sure of anything with this noise anymore. All I know is that it seems to disappear after I have removed the four seat mount bolts and retightened them (which makes me think that it is related to stresses building up in the seat frame). Moreover, I can actually feel the "pop" in the seat (in the buttocks/lower back area).
Tomorrow, I am getting my Alenza tires put on, and I was going to ask the installer to take a look under the cab for any irregularities. Maybe I'll ask them to look at the wheel-well too. Please let me know if there is anything in particular I should be looking for.
****UPDATE****
I'm still trying to find this noise. The wheel well, alignment, and steering components are fine. This noise is definitely coming from the seat. It still feels as if it is coming from the seat back. My next task is to lube the springs in the seat back. Surely there is a mechanic or expert who has had (and fixed) this problem... I would love to hear from them.
Thanks!
Thanks again
Last edited by PatAgent; 10-25-10 at 09:30 PM. Reason: UPDATE:
10-29-10, 09:26 AM
#19
Is this related to the TSB?
10-29-10, 08:28 PM
#20
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Unfortunately, I have had the TSB already completed on both seats to get rid of a creaking noise (and it worked--no more creaky noise). So, it isn't the location pins on these seats that make them click.
This noise is somewhat sneakier! It seems to know when I'm looking for it and then hides. Well, tomorrow is supposed to be a nice day and I'm going to completely remove the seat again (which I hate doing).
If I have to machine custom wear plates or shims out of UHMW to stop this noise, I will do it. I'll post any progress or discoveries I make
Thanks for sticking with me!
This noise is somewhat sneakier! It seems to know when I'm looking for it and then hides. Well, tomorrow is supposed to be a nice day and I'm going to completely remove the seat again (which I hate doing).
If I have to machine custom wear plates or shims out of UHMW to stop this noise, I will do it. I'll post any progress or discoveries I make
Thanks for sticking with me!
10-30-10, 06:36 AM
#21
UHMW, you know your stuff, take pics. Great DIY candidate. Good luck.
10-31-10, 10:12 AM
#23
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@Mandyfig: If I can find the true source of this noise I will document it from start to finish (with pictures), I promise.
@Shikbas: I will do my best to find this irritating click/pop noise. It is funny that more people haven't heard (or felt) it. Then again, maybe they do and it doesn't bother them
What I have found so far:
Typically, when I am debugging a system, mechanism, or assembly, I like to start by observing the failure and then making sure that it replicates. Once I get the problem to replicate, I make one change at a time and see what happens (I call it the Ceteris Paribus form of problem solving).
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to replicate the “click/pop” while the vehicle is stopped, even if I pull on the seat from side to side (while in the back seat). So, I thought the problem could be coming from the vehicle frame, or inside the seat itself. A cursory check under the RX did not show anything out of place, or loose, that may cause a click/pop noise to travel through the seat into my lower back. So, I decided to focus on the seat.
First, the seat mount pads make contact with the cab, at four locations. At these locations in the cab, around the threaded holes, are marks from where the seat has slightly deformed either the paint or metal during the assembly process. If you loosen the four (M10?) bolts and allow the seat to relax in its natural position, you may see that the holes do not exactly line up. Next, if you push the seat assembly from side to side by pushing down on a seat mount point, you can hear the clicking noise (from the protrusion around the seat mount riding along the deformation in the cab made during assembly). I am calling this noise Click01. (That’s right, there is more than one click coming from this seat—I discovered this fact yesterday).
Second, I noticed that the M10 bolts (14mm Hex Head) with washers attached seem to be deformed. Believe it or not, washers have a specific way they should be placed onto a bolt (there are multiple reasons for this, including corrosion resistance, but that is beyond the scope of this post). Two of the bolts had washers mounted in an upside-down configuration (with the sharp side facing up). But, all of them, even the correctly assembled washers, were curved/deformed upward (like smiley faces). This deformation is bad for at least a couple of reasons. One, the washer is not allowing the forces from the bolt head to be distributed properly against the mating surface. Two, the bolt cannot resist the forces of vibration and loosening due to inadequate preload, and the seat will be free to move and make the Click01 noise.
After repositioning the seat and tightening the bolts with a large 14mm wrench, the Click01 noise has disappeared. However, I expect the Click01 noise to return until I replace these bolt/washer combos with some new Lexus parts (yes, I will buy from the dealer if the washers are mounted correctly). If not, I will buy my own high-grade metric fasteners and washers. I am even debating on using a lock washer. Please do not ask me about torque settings, because I used a standard Stanley 14mm wrench and tightened until I couldn’t move the wrench anymore.
This solution would explain why people who have had their seats replaced by Lexus do not hear or feel a noise for several months. It may not be the seat, but the fact that the new bolts have been tightened to their proper settings (very tight) restricting the seat from moving. Eventually, however, the bolts will loosen ever so slightly (if not mounted correctly), and the noise will return.
Now, when driving and turning right only, I can feel and hear the second noise (“Click02”), which seems to be only located in the lower middle region of the seat back. I will be attempting to find this noise by removing the back panel of the seat (but not removing the seat from the RX), and pushing and pulling on components while someone else sits in the seat. Hopefully, it is just a spring moving out of place or something that just needs a little grease.
I will let you know what I find as soon as I get outside (it is another nice day in Colorado)!
@Shikbas: I will do my best to find this irritating click/pop noise. It is funny that more people haven't heard (or felt) it. Then again, maybe they do and it doesn't bother them
What I have found so far:
Typically, when I am debugging a system, mechanism, or assembly, I like to start by observing the failure and then making sure that it replicates. Once I get the problem to replicate, I make one change at a time and see what happens (I call it the Ceteris Paribus form of problem solving).
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to replicate the “click/pop” while the vehicle is stopped, even if I pull on the seat from side to side (while in the back seat). So, I thought the problem could be coming from the vehicle frame, or inside the seat itself. A cursory check under the RX did not show anything out of place, or loose, that may cause a click/pop noise to travel through the seat into my lower back. So, I decided to focus on the seat.
First, the seat mount pads make contact with the cab, at four locations. At these locations in the cab, around the threaded holes, are marks from where the seat has slightly deformed either the paint or metal during the assembly process. If you loosen the four (M10?) bolts and allow the seat to relax in its natural position, you may see that the holes do not exactly line up. Next, if you push the seat assembly from side to side by pushing down on a seat mount point, you can hear the clicking noise (from the protrusion around the seat mount riding along the deformation in the cab made during assembly). I am calling this noise Click01. (That’s right, there is more than one click coming from this seat—I discovered this fact yesterday).
Second, I noticed that the M10 bolts (14mm Hex Head) with washers attached seem to be deformed. Believe it or not, washers have a specific way they should be placed onto a bolt (there are multiple reasons for this, including corrosion resistance, but that is beyond the scope of this post). Two of the bolts had washers mounted in an upside-down configuration (with the sharp side facing up). But, all of them, even the correctly assembled washers, were curved/deformed upward (like smiley faces). This deformation is bad for at least a couple of reasons. One, the washer is not allowing the forces from the bolt head to be distributed properly against the mating surface. Two, the bolt cannot resist the forces of vibration and loosening due to inadequate preload, and the seat will be free to move and make the Click01 noise.
After repositioning the seat and tightening the bolts with a large 14mm wrench, the Click01 noise has disappeared. However, I expect the Click01 noise to return until I replace these bolt/washer combos with some new Lexus parts (yes, I will buy from the dealer if the washers are mounted correctly). If not, I will buy my own high-grade metric fasteners and washers. I am even debating on using a lock washer. Please do not ask me about torque settings, because I used a standard Stanley 14mm wrench and tightened until I couldn’t move the wrench anymore.
This solution would explain why people who have had their seats replaced by Lexus do not hear or feel a noise for several months. It may not be the seat, but the fact that the new bolts have been tightened to their proper settings (very tight) restricting the seat from moving. Eventually, however, the bolts will loosen ever so slightly (if not mounted correctly), and the noise will return.
Now, when driving and turning right only, I can feel and hear the second noise (“Click02”), which seems to be only located in the lower middle region of the seat back. I will be attempting to find this noise by removing the back panel of the seat (but not removing the seat from the RX), and pushing and pulling on components while someone else sits in the seat. Hopefully, it is just a spring moving out of place or something that just needs a little grease.
I will let you know what I find as soon as I get outside (it is another nice day in Colorado)!
11-01-10, 11:14 AM
#24
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Thread Starter
@Mandyfig: If I can find the true source of this noise I will document it from start to finish (with pictures), I promise.
@Shikbas: I will do my best to find this irritating click/pop noise. It is funny that more people haven't heard (or felt) it. Then again, maybe they do and it doesn't bother them
What I have found so far:
Typically, when I am debugging a system, mechanism, or assembly, I like to start by observing the failure and then making sure that it replicates. Once I get the problem to replicate, I make one change at a time and see what happens (I call it the Ceteris Paribus form of problem solving).
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to replicate the “click/pop” while the vehicle is stopped, even if I pull on the seat from side to side (while in the back seat). So, I thought the problem could be coming from the vehicle frame, or inside the seat itself. A cursory check under the RX did not show anything out of place, or loose, that may cause a click/pop noise to travel through the seat into my lower back. So, I decided to focus on the seat.
First, the seat mount pads make contact with the cab, at four locations. At these locations in the cab, around the threaded holes, are marks from where the seat has slightly deformed either the paint or metal during the assembly process. If you loosen the four (M10?) bolts and allow the seat to relax in its natural position, you may see that the holes do not exactly line up. Next, if you push the seat assembly from side to side by pushing down on a seat mount point, you can hear the clicking noise (from the protrusion around the seat mount riding along the deformation in the cab made during assembly). I am calling this noise Click01. (That’s right, there is more than one click coming from this seat—I discovered this fact yesterday).
Second, I noticed that the M10 bolts (14mm Hex Head) with washers attached seem to be deformed. Believe it or not, washers have a specific way they should be placed onto a bolt (there are multiple reasons for this, including corrosion resistance, but that is beyond the scope of this post). Two of the bolts had washers mounted in an upside-down configuration (with the sharp side facing up). But, all of them, even the correctly assembled washers, were curved/deformed upward (like smiley faces). This deformation is bad for at least a couple of reasons. One, the washer is not allowing the forces from the bolt head to be distributed properly against the mating surface. Two, the bolt cannot resist the forces of vibration and loosening due to inadequate preload, and the seat will be free to move and make the Click01 noise.
After repositioning the seat and tightening the bolts with a large 14mm wrench, the Click01 noise has disappeared. However, I expect the Click01 noise to return until I replace these bolt/washer combos with some new Lexus parts (yes, I will buy from the dealer if the washers are mounted correctly). If not, I will buy my own high-grade metric fasteners and washers. I am even debating on using a lock washer. Please do not ask me about torque settings, because I used a standard Stanley 14mm wrench and tightened until I couldn’t move the wrench anymore.
This solution would explain why people who have had their seats replaced by Lexus do not hear or feel a noise for several months. It may not be the seat, but the fact that the new bolts have been tightened to their proper settings (very tight) restricting the seat from moving. Eventually, however, the bolts will loosen ever so slightly (if not mounted correctly), and the noise will return.
Now, when driving and turning right only, I can feel and hear the second noise (“Click02”), which seems to be only located in the lower middle region of the seat back. I will be attempting to find this noise by removing the back panel of the seat (but not removing the seat from the RX), and pushing and pulling on components while someone else sits in the seat. Hopefully, it is just a spring moving out of place or something that just needs a little grease.
I will let you know what I find as soon as I get outside (it is another nice day in Colorado)!
@Shikbas: I will do my best to find this irritating click/pop noise. It is funny that more people haven't heard (or felt) it. Then again, maybe they do and it doesn't bother them
What I have found so far:
Typically, when I am debugging a system, mechanism, or assembly, I like to start by observing the failure and then making sure that it replicates. Once I get the problem to replicate, I make one change at a time and see what happens (I call it the Ceteris Paribus form of problem solving).
Unfortunately, I cannot seem to replicate the “click/pop” while the vehicle is stopped, even if I pull on the seat from side to side (while in the back seat). So, I thought the problem could be coming from the vehicle frame, or inside the seat itself. A cursory check under the RX did not show anything out of place, or loose, that may cause a click/pop noise to travel through the seat into my lower back. So, I decided to focus on the seat.
First, the seat mount pads make contact with the cab, at four locations. At these locations in the cab, around the threaded holes, are marks from where the seat has slightly deformed either the paint or metal during the assembly process. If you loosen the four (M10?) bolts and allow the seat to relax in its natural position, you may see that the holes do not exactly line up. Next, if you push the seat assembly from side to side by pushing down on a seat mount point, you can hear the clicking noise (from the protrusion around the seat mount riding along the deformation in the cab made during assembly). I am calling this noise Click01. (That’s right, there is more than one click coming from this seat—I discovered this fact yesterday).
Second, I noticed that the M10 bolts (14mm Hex Head) with washers attached seem to be deformed. Believe it or not, washers have a specific way they should be placed onto a bolt (there are multiple reasons for this, including corrosion resistance, but that is beyond the scope of this post). Two of the bolts had washers mounted in an upside-down configuration (with the sharp side facing up). But, all of them, even the correctly assembled washers, were curved/deformed upward (like smiley faces). This deformation is bad for at least a couple of reasons. One, the washer is not allowing the forces from the bolt head to be distributed properly against the mating surface. Two, the bolt cannot resist the forces of vibration and loosening due to inadequate preload, and the seat will be free to move and make the Click01 noise.
After repositioning the seat and tightening the bolts with a large 14mm wrench, the Click01 noise has disappeared. However, I expect the Click01 noise to return until I replace these bolt/washer combos with some new Lexus parts (yes, I will buy from the dealer if the washers are mounted correctly). If not, I will buy my own high-grade metric fasteners and washers. I am even debating on using a lock washer. Please do not ask me about torque settings, because I used a standard Stanley 14mm wrench and tightened until I couldn’t move the wrench anymore.
This solution would explain why people who have had their seats replaced by Lexus do not hear or feel a noise for several months. It may not be the seat, but the fact that the new bolts have been tightened to their proper settings (very tight) restricting the seat from moving. Eventually, however, the bolts will loosen ever so slightly (if not mounted correctly), and the noise will return.
Now, when driving and turning right only, I can feel and hear the second noise (“Click02”), which seems to be only located in the lower middle region of the seat back. I will be attempting to find this noise by removing the back panel of the seat (but not removing the seat from the RX), and pushing and pulling on components while someone else sits in the seat. Hopefully, it is just a spring moving out of place or something that just needs a little grease.
I will let you know what I find as soon as I get outside (it is another nice day in Colorado)!
11-01-10, 04:48 PM
#25
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Dear shikbas, in the posts that will follow this one, I will be describing techniques and (hopefully) resolutions to our seat clicking noises that may require a high degree of technical skill (involving the possible disassembly of a planetary gear system--hopefully not). My recommendation would be to tell the dealer about what I have found and get them to do it, and if they screw it up it is on them. Personally, I am not afraid of breaking parts (as my warranty is over, and I've done it before), but I understand your apprehension in pulling things apart
I will rate the following posts (and possible future DIY) with a technical level, from 1 to 10; where 1 is someone who shims squeaky panels or parts with rubber or felt and a 10 is a master mechanic (in which case, I won't be able to do it myself)
I would say that tightening the bolts above is a Level 2.
Currently, I'm investigating the spline shaft that actuates the tilt mechanism of the seat back. It appears that the noise is coming from this area, specifically, the seat tilt gear system on the driver's right side. I may have an easy fix that I will be trying tonight. If I can get it to work I will post a DIY. I'll let you know.
Sleep well for now, and next time you take your RX for a service ask the tech to tighten the seat bolts. Good luck my friend!
I will rate the following posts (and possible future DIY) with a technical level, from 1 to 10; where 1 is someone who shims squeaky panels or parts with rubber or felt and a 10 is a master mechanic (in which case, I won't be able to do it myself)
I would say that tightening the bolts above is a Level 2.
Currently, I'm investigating the spline shaft that actuates the tilt mechanism of the seat back. It appears that the noise is coming from this area, specifically, the seat tilt gear system on the driver's right side. I may have an easy fix that I will be trying tonight. If I can get it to work I will post a DIY. I'll let you know.
Sleep well for now, and next time you take your RX for a service ask the tech to tighten the seat bolts. Good luck my friend!
11-08-10, 06:46 PM
#26
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Click Noise Fixed!
Ok, here's the update:
I fixed the clicking noise coming from the seat!
The problem is the seat-tilt mechanism spline shaft, and the solution is somewhat simple if you are able to get to the gear area opposite from the side where the motor (actuator) is located. This step involves removing the seat (or at least taking all of the bolts out and repositioning it)
Basically, this spline shaft is able to move laterally inside the gearing and is only held in place by two small (weak) retaining clips. These clips gradually creep outward, toward the shaft ends, and let the spline shaft move and make a clicking noise that can be felt in the seat. What a pain to anyone who has felt or heard this while turning.
What I did was place a small O-Ring between the gear area and retaining clip and tightened the clip down to restrict the shaft movement. Then I filled the gearing with a high-quality marine grease. No click noise since I did this, and I can tell you that I am relieved!
Now, this solution may only be temporary, but I am engineering a permanent fix that will be sure to last forever. I will post this fix, with pictures, in a DIY once I get a chance. As soon as I do so, I'll link to it from this thread.
Toyota/Lexus should pay me for my engineering time troubleshooting this problem as I have spent over 20 hours trying different fixes for this annoying issue. Well, here it is for all my ClubLexus pals for free!
I promise to update again soon with my permanent solution! This problem has been observed on many Toyota and Lexus vehicles, where the car company has elected to install new seats to fix the issue. It cost me a little time (once I isolated the problem) and a couple of O-Rings.
Talk to you all soon! There is a fix!
***UPDATE: I changed my avatar to show the spline shaft end I'm talking about. I will try to find a way to post pictures of the DIY. I just need to find a photo-site I can trust (anonymous and free). Take care!
I fixed the clicking noise coming from the seat!
The problem is the seat-tilt mechanism spline shaft, and the solution is somewhat simple if you are able to get to the gear area opposite from the side where the motor (actuator) is located. This step involves removing the seat (or at least taking all of the bolts out and repositioning it)
Basically, this spline shaft is able to move laterally inside the gearing and is only held in place by two small (weak) retaining clips. These clips gradually creep outward, toward the shaft ends, and let the spline shaft move and make a clicking noise that can be felt in the seat. What a pain to anyone who has felt or heard this while turning.
What I did was place a small O-Ring between the gear area and retaining clip and tightened the clip down to restrict the shaft movement. Then I filled the gearing with a high-quality marine grease. No click noise since I did this, and I can tell you that I am relieved!
Now, this solution may only be temporary, but I am engineering a permanent fix that will be sure to last forever. I will post this fix, with pictures, in a DIY once I get a chance. As soon as I do so, I'll link to it from this thread.
Toyota/Lexus should pay me for my engineering time troubleshooting this problem as I have spent over 20 hours trying different fixes for this annoying issue. Well, here it is for all my ClubLexus pals for free!
I promise to update again soon with my permanent solution! This problem has been observed on many Toyota and Lexus vehicles, where the car company has elected to install new seats to fix the issue. It cost me a little time (once I isolated the problem) and a couple of O-Rings.
Talk to you all soon! There is a fix!
***UPDATE: I changed my avatar to show the spline shaft end I'm talking about. I will try to find a way to post pictures of the DIY. I just need to find a photo-site I can trust (anonymous and free). Take care!
Last edited by PatAgent; 11-08-10 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Update.
11-09-10, 08:11 AM
#27
This is great stuff! Pics and DIY please, and thank you!
11-09-10, 01:47 PM
#28
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Will do, as soon as I get the technical materials prepared! I might put this DIY on YouTube because I believe a lot of Toyota people have experienced the same problem. (See http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-ge...eat-click.html)
Thanks for sticking with this thread! Also, thanks for your thread about the radiator guard mods (posted earlier). I didn't even know this problem existed and I am glad to have a little peace of mind for the price of two gutter guards (and a few cuts on my hands)!
All the best!
Thanks for sticking with this thread! Also, thanks for your thread about the radiator guard mods (posted earlier). I didn't even know this problem existed and I am glad to have a little peace of mind for the price of two gutter guards (and a few cuts on my hands)!
All the best!
11-15-17, 08:27 AM
#29
Drivers Seat Click sound-Anybody have a update
This is a great thread, has anybody performed this DIY? If so, any pictures? Need some advice help/direction would be most appreciated. The Avatar from the Post , I cannot make it out the exact location he is talking about! I have sent hi a PM but not sure if he will receive this request for more info!
Thanks
Bob
Thanks
Bob
11-15-17, 04:05 PM
#30
Found the noise area on Drivers seat
Hi All--
Got home this evening and was going to follow this thread for a fix. Turns out on my 2003 SC430 has a click noise in the center of the Drivers Seat in the middle of the Seat Back!! I am able to reproduce the sound with car off and in my Garage! To hear the sound, sounds like a click, I push almost dead center the Seat, the noise happens, YEA I think!
So that is good, now I need to take off the Seat Back cover and look! It may be the part where Lexus put a Tie wrap on the spring to control the manual operation of the Tilt feature! This weekend I will pull of the back cover and then push on the Seat Back and find the Culprit location?
I will report my findings and hopeful fix. I am 225 pls, probably part of the problem, LOL
Stay tuned!
Bob
Got home this evening and was going to follow this thread for a fix. Turns out on my 2003 SC430 has a click noise in the center of the Drivers Seat in the middle of the Seat Back!! I am able to reproduce the sound with car off and in my Garage! To hear the sound, sounds like a click, I push almost dead center the Seat, the noise happens, YEA I think!
So that is good, now I need to take off the Seat Back cover and look! It may be the part where Lexus put a Tie wrap on the spring to control the manual operation of the Tilt feature! This weekend I will pull of the back cover and then push on the Seat Back and find the Culprit location?
I will report my findings and hopeful fix. I am 225 pls, probably part of the problem, LOL
Stay tuned!
Bob