A/C Condenser Easily Punctured
07-11-04, 12:41 PM
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A/C Condenser Easily Punctured
Has anyone else experienced a punctured A/C condenser in an RX300 or RX330 from small road debris?
I purchased a new 2004, RX330 from Lexus of Tampa Bay on June 30 of this year. For the first week we did just local driving.
On Friday, July 9, we headed north up I-75 on our way to Indiana. Just north of Tifton, GA, we noticed the A/C temp getting warmer. Within a few miles it was obvious that something had happened to the A/C.
We stopped at a Lexus dealer in Macon, Ga. They looked at it, said it was "damage" not covered under warranty and presented us with an estimate for many hundreds of dollars. The mechanic showed me the "damage." They didn't have the parts anyway. They charged me $77.25 labor to look at the car.
With the outside temp at 93, on a Friday afternoon, we turned around and drove home.
Saturday morning, I took photos of the damage and have posted one of them at this location with the "damage" circled in yellow:
A/C Condenser Puncture
We then drove to the dealership where we bought the vehicle. They came back with basically the same response - "damage" not covered under warranty.
If you look at the photo, the area of damage is less than 1/16" in size, but the object hit one of the veins and ruptured the condenser. 90% of the bare metal shown in the photo is harmless damage done to one of the cooling fins. The damage to the horizontal cooling vein that was ruptured is approximately the size of the tip of a ballpoint pen!!
I view this as a possible engineering design flaw and/or condenser quality issue. I think the condenser should either have been protected with additional baffling or the condenser is not made strong enough to withstand even the slightest impact.
Has anyone had a similar problem?
I'll be back at the dealer Monday morning to continue my fight.
At this point I am extremely unhappy with both dealerships - Butler Lexus in Macon for billing their labor and Tampa Bay Lexus for only making a minimal consession offer to repair the vehicle.
Look at the photo for yourself and see if you wouldn't have a reasonable expectation that the vehicle should have been better designed to absorb such a tiny hit without such major damage!!
Thanks,
Gary A
I purchased a new 2004, RX330 from Lexus of Tampa Bay on June 30 of this year. For the first week we did just local driving.
On Friday, July 9, we headed north up I-75 on our way to Indiana. Just north of Tifton, GA, we noticed the A/C temp getting warmer. Within a few miles it was obvious that something had happened to the A/C.
We stopped at a Lexus dealer in Macon, Ga. They looked at it, said it was "damage" not covered under warranty and presented us with an estimate for many hundreds of dollars. The mechanic showed me the "damage." They didn't have the parts anyway. They charged me $77.25 labor to look at the car.
With the outside temp at 93, on a Friday afternoon, we turned around and drove home.Saturday morning, I took photos of the damage and have posted one of them at this location with the "damage" circled in yellow:
A/C Condenser Puncture
We then drove to the dealership where we bought the vehicle. They came back with basically the same response - "damage" not covered under warranty.
If you look at the photo, the area of damage is less than 1/16" in size, but the object hit one of the veins and ruptured the condenser. 90% of the bare metal shown in the photo is harmless damage done to one of the cooling fins. The damage to the horizontal cooling vein that was ruptured is approximately the size of the tip of a ballpoint pen!!
I view this as a possible engineering design flaw and/or condenser quality issue. I think the condenser should either have been protected with additional baffling or the condenser is not made strong enough to withstand even the slightest impact.
Has anyone had a similar problem?
I'll be back at the dealer Monday morning to continue my fight.
At this point I am extremely unhappy with both dealerships - Butler Lexus in Macon for billing their labor and Tampa Bay Lexus for only making a minimal consession offer to repair the vehicle.
Look at the photo for yourself and see if you wouldn't have a reasonable expectation that the vehicle should have been better designed to absorb such a tiny hit without such major damage!!
Thanks,
Gary A
07-11-04, 02:04 PM
#2
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I don't see any photo. Anyway, an extremely unlucky shot of debris will puncture any A/C system. Anything could happen on the road: like rock chips on the windshield, upright nail on the road, etc.
07-11-04, 03:55 PM
#3
I do recall a lot of complaints on this forum a couple of years ago with respect to this issue on the RX300.
I did a lot of highway driving with my RX300's (about 80K miles total), and fortunately, I never had a problem with it. I guess some amount of luck is involved.
I'm a bit disappointed to hear that despite the complaints of the RX300 owners, the RX330 may be just as vulnerable to an unlucky encounter with a piece of road debris.
I did a lot of highway driving with my RX300's (about 80K miles total), and fortunately, I never had a problem with it. I guess some amount of luck is involved.
I'm a bit disappointed to hear that despite the complaints of the RX300 owners, the RX330 may be just as vulnerable to an unlucky encounter with a piece of road debris.
07-15-04, 05:32 PM
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To HarrierAWD:
There is a link in my original post to the photo. Just click on the A/C Condenser Puncture and it will open the photo in a new window.
To rxdriver:
Any idea if the old RX300 threads are still out here? Can you point me to any of them? That would be great backup information for me to use with Lexus Corp. Any idea if Lexus ever released a Service Bulletin for the RX300?
General update:
Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, July in Florida is no time to be without A/C. I pushed it all the way up to the Executive General Manager (on Monday) who oversees 2 dealerships (Lexus of Tamps Bay and Clearwater Lexus) and he would not budge on their offer to pay for the parts and I pay for the labor. So, yesterday (Wednesday) they received the new condenser and I had them put it in. So, now I am out almost another $400 and don't even have 1000 miles on it. All anyone at the dealership would say (over and over and over) was "road hazards are not covered under the warranty." Well, I know that! My point is that for probably for very few dollars, they could add some sort of screen, baffle, or mesh to keep out the big stuff! And by that, I don't mean bricks, cinder blocks, bullets, RPG's or 2X4's. I realize that nothing will protect against debris like that. Just something to keep out the nuts, bolts, screws and small rocks that we all face every time we drive! Is that really too much to ask? Apparently so!
After the GM turned me down on Monday, I called Lexus Corp Cust Service and filed a complaint. They will get back to me in 3 to 5 days. I also had a consultation with a Consumer Fraud attorney, which was worth the consultation fee just to find out my options, even if most would be very costly.
While I was at the dealership yesterday, I compared the front ends of the RX300 with the RX330. There are slight differences, but there is still that big open area under the front bumper that has no screening, baffles, mesh or any type of grillwork. The A/C condenser sits totally exposed just waiting for road debris to come flying in.
One used 2002, RX300 had a condenser that was loaded with crap. It really showed signs of having been hit many times by debris. The previous owner was just plain lucky he didn't get a puncture.
I have already told everyone at the dealership that they have lost a customer. I refuse to go back there for any service work - they are not getting one more dime of my money. I will drive however far I have to, to go to another dealership. When I get some time, I'm going to create a web site with my story and a warning to other potential buyers. I am also considering silk screened t-shirts with something like "ask me about my Lexus." I am telling anyone who will listen, how I have been treated.
Gary A
There is a link in my original post to the photo. Just click on the A/C Condenser Puncture and it will open the photo in a new window.
To rxdriver:
Any idea if the old RX300 threads are still out here? Can you point me to any of them? That would be great backup information for me to use with Lexus Corp. Any idea if Lexus ever released a Service Bulletin for the RX300?
General update:
Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, July in Florida is no time to be without A/C. I pushed it all the way up to the Executive General Manager (on Monday) who oversees 2 dealerships (Lexus of Tamps Bay and Clearwater Lexus) and he would not budge on their offer to pay for the parts and I pay for the labor. So, yesterday (Wednesday) they received the new condenser and I had them put it in. So, now I am out almost another $400 and don't even have 1000 miles on it. All anyone at the dealership would say (over and over and over) was "road hazards are not covered under the warranty." Well, I know that! My point is that for probably for very few dollars, they could add some sort of screen, baffle, or mesh to keep out the big stuff! And by that, I don't mean bricks, cinder blocks, bullets, RPG's or 2X4's. I realize that nothing will protect against debris like that. Just something to keep out the nuts, bolts, screws and small rocks that we all face every time we drive! Is that really too much to ask? Apparently so!
After the GM turned me down on Monday, I called Lexus Corp Cust Service and filed a complaint. They will get back to me in 3 to 5 days. I also had a consultation with a Consumer Fraud attorney, which was worth the consultation fee just to find out my options, even if most would be very costly.
While I was at the dealership yesterday, I compared the front ends of the RX300 with the RX330. There are slight differences, but there is still that big open area under the front bumper that has no screening, baffles, mesh or any type of grillwork. The A/C condenser sits totally exposed just waiting for road debris to come flying in.
One used 2002, RX300 had a condenser that was loaded with crap. It really showed signs of having been hit many times by debris. The previous owner was just plain lucky he didn't get a puncture.
I have already told everyone at the dealership that they have lost a customer. I refuse to go back there for any service work - they are not getting one more dime of my money. I will drive however far I have to, to go to another dealership. When I get some time, I'm going to create a web site with my story and a warning to other potential buyers. I am also considering silk screened t-shirts with something like "ask me about my Lexus." I am telling anyone who will listen, how I have been treated.
Gary A
07-15-04, 06:31 PM
#5
Although it looks like there's at least of three years of forum data stored online, I tried searching a few different ways but I couldn't find much. I found one thread that referenced the RX300 complaints, but I couldn't find any detailed threads.
I never looked for a TSIB for the RX300. I just assumed that it's too fundamental of a design issue to be fixed by a dealer, as you observed.
I never looked for a TSIB for the RX300. I just assumed that it's too fundamental of a design issue to be fixed by a dealer, as you observed.
07-16-04, 06:59 PM
#7
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Maybe it's just me, but I still can't view the photo. I can understand your frustration though.
I looked at my own A/C condenser. It's got some dents on the grille, most likely from small stones on the highway. I suppose that I could cover it with a pet mesh screen for extra protection.
At least Toyota put it in front of the radiator. I'd be in a world of hurt if my radiator got punctured.... until then stay away from those semis I reckon.
I looked at my own A/C condenser. It's got some dents on the grille, most likely from small stones on the highway. I suppose that I could cover it with a pet mesh screen for extra protection.
At least Toyota put it in front of the radiator. I'd be in a world of hurt if my radiator got punctured.... until then stay away from those semis I reckon.
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07-16-04, 07:09 PM
#8
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Sorry about the duplicate posting earlier... I was trying to edit.
Anyway, I adjusted my browser setting and I could see the photo now. I must have at least 15 similar punctures on my A/C condenser, but my A/C is still cold. (It's a 2002 RX300) I suppose that the puncture you got probably went a little too deep.
Hope you get the case resolved in your favor.
Anyway, I adjusted my browser setting and I could see the photo now. I must have at least 15 similar punctures on my A/C condenser, but my A/C is still cold. (It's a 2002 RX300) I suppose that the puncture you got probably went a little too deep.
Hope you get the case resolved in your favor.
07-17-04, 10:24 AM
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Front End Differences
I noticed on my last service visit that the front end air dam seems to be different on showroom vehicles. I assumed it was because some have the cruise control with the radar and some do not. Has anyone else noticed this? Could the dam with the distance sensor offer more protection for the consensor? 
MRB
MRB
07-18-04, 05:12 AM
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That's an interesting observation. I've never thought to look at a model with the laser assisted cruise control. Mine does NOT have that option.
I'm traveling (in the RX with a new condenser) so I haven't been home to check for messages from Lexus corp. Although I really doubt that they are going to do anything about it. I'll check my voice mail later today and see if they have called back yet with any interesting comments.
HarrierAWD - here is the full url for the photo. Let's see if that works.
http://gwa2001.home.att.net/Dcp_1959a.jpg
Gary A
I'm traveling (in the RX with a new condenser) so I haven't been home to check for messages from Lexus corp. Although I really doubt that they are going to do anything about it. I'll check my voice mail later today and see if they have called back yet with any interesting comments.
HarrierAWD - here is the full url for the photo. Let's see if that works.
http://gwa2001.home.att.net/Dcp_1959a.jpg
Gary A
Last edited by GaryA; 07-18-04 at 05:18 AM.
07-27-04, 10:25 AM
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***************UPDATE***************
I finally received a callback from Lexus Corp Customer Satisfaction. They are sticking to their guns and saying that my problem was road hazard, not covered under warranty!! They refuse to even consider or listen to me when I try to explain that to A/C condenser is too exposed and very vulnerable to damage from road debris.
So... I am appropriately filling out their customer satisfaction survey cards, responding to their "thank you for buying a Lexus" letters and making a second appointment with my consumer fraud attorney. I have also cancelled the service contract I purchased through the dealer when I bought the vehicle. All I can do is see that they don't get another dime of my service money.
Good luck to the rest of you RX owners!
Gary A
I finally received a callback from Lexus Corp Customer Satisfaction. They are sticking to their guns and saying that my problem was road hazard, not covered under warranty!! They refuse to even consider or listen to me when I try to explain that to A/C condenser is too exposed and very vulnerable to damage from road debris.
So... I am appropriately filling out their customer satisfaction survey cards, responding to their "thank you for buying a Lexus" letters and making a second appointment with my consumer fraud attorney. I have also cancelled the service contract I purchased through the dealer when I bought the vehicle. All I can do is see that they don't get another dime of my service money.
Good luck to the rest of you RX owners!
Gary A
08-08-04, 01:52 PM
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I have the same problem:
One day the wife complains that the A/C isn't working.
I check all the obvious stuff and then decide to take it into the dealer.
They report that the condensor is punctured. Unfortunately, I picked it up late at night and wasn't able to have the tech show me where. Cost of replacement = $900/part + $500/Labor = $1400.00!!!!
No WAY was I paying this for a two year old car. So I mulled on it for a while and decided to make SURE there was a hole as I couldn't see exactly where it was punctured.
I connected up a Recharge kit and started adding pressure until the compressor activated. As soon as that compressor kicked on, A/C refrigerant started spraying all over my leg from the condenser.... it's busted.
I think I can replace the condenser myself as it's not mounted in there with but a few screws and a couple hoses. The part can be purchased online for about $260.00. You'd only have to maybe remove the front bumper.
My only question is.... is there anything else that needs to be replaced such as the dryer?
Once I do fix this, I will be adding a mesh guard of some type to the bottom intake vent... it's pretty huge and too low to have no protection.
Sorry to hear about your problem, but you're not alone. Thankfully this summer has been mild here in upstate NJ... Now my wife WANTS to drive the "yucky car" that has working A/C though...
One day the wife complains that the A/C isn't working.
I check all the obvious stuff and then decide to take it into the dealer.
They report that the condensor is punctured. Unfortunately, I picked it up late at night and wasn't able to have the tech show me where. Cost of replacement = $900/part + $500/Labor = $1400.00!!!!
No WAY was I paying this for a two year old car. So I mulled on it for a while and decided to make SURE there was a hole as I couldn't see exactly where it was punctured.
I connected up a Recharge kit and started adding pressure until the compressor activated. As soon as that compressor kicked on, A/C refrigerant started spraying all over my leg from the condenser.... it's busted.
I think I can replace the condenser myself as it's not mounted in there with but a few screws and a couple hoses. The part can be purchased online for about $260.00. You'd only have to maybe remove the front bumper.
My only question is.... is there anything else that needs to be replaced such as the dryer?
Once I do fix this, I will be adding a mesh guard of some type to the bottom intake vent... it's pretty huge and too low to have no protection.
Sorry to hear about your problem, but you're not alone. Thankfully this summer has been mild here in upstate NJ... Now my wife WANTS to drive the "yucky car" that has working A/C though...
08-08-04, 02:26 PM
#13
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Man, now I am seriously considering putting some mesh screen on. I do have some pet-proof mesh screen laying around. I'll report back to the group if I can figure out how.
There are some A/C stop leak products out there. Wonder if they really work? One episode of MacGyver (remember him?) had him put egg white in a Jeep's radiator to stop the leak. Somehow I don't think that'd hold up.
There are some A/C stop leak products out there. Wonder if they really work? One episode of MacGyver (remember him?) had him put egg white in a Jeep's radiator to stop the leak. Somehow I don't think that'd hold up.
08-08-04, 02:38 PM
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Sorry to hear about your problem - but, glad to hear I'm not alone! Since your vehicle is 2 years old, I assume its an RX300, is that correct? The front end design is not much different between the RX300 and the RX330. Both have wide open areas below the bumper for debris to come flying in!
When I was discussing the parts question with the service manager, he explained that the dryer comes as part of the condenser in the RX330. So when my condenser was replaced, so was the dryer. I don't know if the same is true of the condenser for the RX300.
Since this happened, I find myself looking at the front end design of every vehicle in the parking lots! I have looked at a few RX300's & RX330's and was amazed at how much road junk was lodged in the condensers.
Be careful about adding any kind of after-market screening. The vehicle warranty states that the warranty can be voided if a problem is the result of after-market products.
Good luck - let us know how you make out with your repairs,
Gary A
- but, glad to hear I'm not alone! Since your vehicle is 2 years old, I assume its an RX300, is that correct? The front end design is not much different between the RX300 and the RX330. Both have wide open areas below the bumper for debris to come flying in!When I was discussing the parts question with the service manager, he explained that the dryer comes as part of the condenser in the RX330. So when my condenser was replaced, so was the dryer. I don't know if the same is true of the condenser for the RX300.
Since this happened, I find myself looking at the front end design of every vehicle in the parking lots! I have looked at a few RX300's & RX330's and was amazed at how much road junk was lodged in the condensers.
Be careful about adding any kind of after-market screening. The vehicle warranty states that the warranty can be voided if a problem is the result of after-market products.
Good luck - let us know how you make out with your repairs,
Gary A
08-08-04, 06:15 PM
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Sorry I didn't note it before I started my store, yes I have a RX300...
Though I am quite envious of the new front end styling of the RX330, I prefer the rear end of my model.
Since I can't find any info on the dryer unit, and I'm sure that Toyota/Lexus didn't redesign the A/C system the info you have regarding the condenser/dryer combo sounds accurate.
I pulled the biggest bug I've ever seen out of the condenser while looking for the leak. It seems to be quite the magnet for road debris and misc flying 'things'.
I'll let everyone now how my replacement goes and even post up directions and pictures for people to follow along with. I did this for the rear clear corners mod last time.
Of course, this is all pending my job situation which may be outsourced this week.... <sigh>
There may be a bargain priced RX300 with no A/C up for sale soon.
Though I am quite envious of the new front end styling of the RX330, I prefer the rear end of my model.
Since I can't find any info on the dryer unit, and I'm sure that Toyota/Lexus didn't redesign the A/C system the info you have regarding the condenser/dryer combo sounds accurate.
I pulled the biggest bug I've ever seen out of the condenser while looking for the leak. It seems to be quite the magnet for road debris and misc flying 'things'.
I'll let everyone now how my replacement goes and even post up directions and pictures for people to follow along with. I did this for the rear clear corners mod last time.
Of course, this is all pending my job situation which may be outsourced this week.... <sigh>
There may be a bargain priced RX300 with no A/C up for sale soon.