Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

When it rains, it pours...

I'm currently struggling with issues on our 2000 RX300. I just had to replace an 02 sensor and the MAF, and the indie mechanic commented that the engine was making an "abnormal sound" that he recommended investigating. I hadn't really noticed the sound because my issues involved the engine running at high idle which drowned out the noise. Now with the recent repairs having been made, the noise is now very noticable.

Another $200 later the mechanic believes it's the water pump. I had the pump replaced 2 years ago when I had the timing belt done at another place, and it only had 1yr parts/labor warranty, so I'm out of luck there.

Just to make sure I don't get myself screwed over again, how much work am I looking at to fix this, and how much?

salimshah

I trust the original water-pump, so I am not sure if you got an upgrade/down-grade when you replaced the original. Among the things in the timing belt train, I do not have faith in the ideller-roller (they are lubed for life which to me in 90k or less).

How many miles are on the odo and what milage you got the TB job done?

Based on other posts you are talking about 4-5hrs of labor + cost of the failing part. Which for me right now is behind the TB cover (pump or ideller or both)


If it is water-pump and the mechanic has charged you 200 to open the TB cover then all you need to do is pay another 200 at most to button up and the cost of water pump. If you are close to replace the TB ... may be you should spend the extra 45 or so to take care of that and while you are at it you can have him check for ideller discoloration (they turn blue)

Salim

Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

i've done about 12k mi since the TB/water pump was replaced. the idlers and tensioner were also done at the same time. i got all my old stuff back from the mechanic at the time and they were in the oem boxes, so i'm fairly certain it was toyota parts that went in.

the engine sounds normal at first startup for the day, but after about 10-15 minutes the noise starts. it's a consistent sound and does not seem to be affected by the running of other acessories (eg. alternator, a/c compressor, power steering), but i cannot tell if it is affected by rpm because the engine noise drowns the sound out past 1000rpm. the rx is not overheating, and i'm not losing coolant, but the mechanic said it dosen't matter... it could go on for a long time like this, or it could fail right now.

the current mechanic took these pictures of the idlers when he had it open to show that they show no issues (taken with an iphone sorry i do not know how to make them bigger):

Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

mechanic just got in touch with me. prices in cdn:

$130 tensioner
$160 water pump
$325 labor (incl. coolant)

$615 total

... and this depends on whether he finds anything else wrong once he opens it all the way up

splacek007

I had my wife's '02 RX in for a similar noise...I ordered on mylexparts.com: both tensioners (timing belt & idler pulley), timing belt, water pump, w/ shipping was around $300. $400 in labor to go in and replace the above...total, $700. About $150 cheaper than buying OEM parts from the local Lexus supplier. The above seems fair if OEM parts, however, I might recommend changing the belt at the same time unless the previous one can be reused.

code58

Benjamin- Too bad you don't do your own work. If you did, I would run it with the cover off and use a mechanics stethoscope to check the rotating parts for the noise. Almost for certain you'd be able to determine where it is coming from. Probably not worth it to do a whole lot of diagnosis at $100. an hour or more. But what if you have him replace all those parts again and THEN the noise is still there? I'm a firm believer in determining what parts are causing the noise BEFORE I throw a bunch of parts at it. The OEM parts are of such high quality, I am suspicioning that the noise is something else, unless he actually used other than OEM parts. A lot of places sell GMB parts because they are made in Japan and are a fair amount cheaper than Koyo, but I have had bad experience more than once before with "lifetime warranteed" GMB parts and will no longer use them under ANY circumstances.

dynarex

what does the noise sound like?

Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

i do not have the purchase invoice for the parts unfortunately. all i have were the boxes the new parts came in (oem toyota, although the idlers say koyo) with the original parts in them.

the diagnosis was already done, hence the (tiny) pictures i posted above that were taken by the mechanic who did the inspection. he took them to show me that he did open it up, and to show that the idlers show no damage (ie. no grease spray or burn marks). he did not remove the tensioner, because he didn't have a new in stock. the timing belt was up to spec and tight. all that was left was the water pump. because there were no parts available that day and i needed the car back, there was nothing left to do but to put it back together and let me decide what next

Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

ugh, i'm really bad at describing sounds like this... there is a faint ticking, combined with slight bearing/belt noise (the accessory belts showed no damage either).

one other thing: the mechanic ran the engine without the accesory belts on, which eliminated the alternator, power steering pump, and air con compressor... noise was still there.

salimshah

It can be anything in the T-belt drive train. It may or may not be the water pump.

Salim

code58

Benjamin- I still say, USE A MECHANICS STETHOSCOPE to determine where the noise is. It will require removal of the T/B cover, but you can get to all of the moving parts that way. If you are unable do any of your own work, bummer, it will probably be as cheap to do it all again as to have the mechanic do that. I believe so strongly in a MS that I have 2 of them. It will definitely pin point the noise if it is any of the moving parts in the T/B system (idler, tensioner pulley, W/P). You should even be able to tell if it is top side rather than TB area. I would be absolutely amazed if it was the Aisin W/P. One of the finest pieces of engineering in a W/P that I've ever seen. (You can steth all those parts with it running with the cover off without danger if YOU'RE CAREFUL.) I've done it many times without ever a problem.

The weakest point in the T/B system is the tensioner pulley because it only has a single row of bearings while the W/P and the top idler both have a double row. The bearings are "sealed", but it is easy to remove the "seal" by use of a small hooked pick. Catch the edge of the orange rubber and pull the seal right out of the lip. You can re-grease if needed and easily replace the seal by simply snapping it back in the groove. The tensioner pulley in my DIL's RX was bone dry of grease but still smooth as glass, but that was after 127k mi. and 10 years.

splacek007

Stethoscope +1...the mechanic that diagnosed my problem first tried the A/C and alternator belts...the grinding (what sounded like a bearing beginning to seize) continued, he then removed the cover and used the stethoscope and diagnosed as the tensioner pulley. Oftentimes the pulley will not make the identical noise w/o load on it (e.g., when removed, you may not hear the same grinding noise).

code58 - that's a neat idea to regrease the bearings. If someone isn't a DIY'er (I didn't trust myself to remove the timing belt cover), then it is pretty intimidating.

Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

the mechanic who did the inspection and took the pictures i posted above did use a stethoscope. he did run the engine with the cover off. i remember him saying what you just said... dangerous.

he did tell me he did not pull the tensioner off because he did not have a new one to replace it with. he said he never reuses a tensioner no matter how new it is.

unfortunately i am unable to do any mechanical work, especially something like this, as i do not have covered parking, nor do i have the necessary tools.

code58

Benjamin- when you say tensioner, do you mean the actually hydraulic tensioner or the tensioner pulley and bearing? I assume you mean the hydraulic part. I had my DIL's apart 3 times over about 30k mi and re-used each time and had no problems with it. (the 3 times were for legitimate reasons) I AM NOT disagreeing with your mechanics position. It worked fine the 1st 2 times and the 3rd time when the pin was pulled, I had to nudge it a little to get complete tension. I have pulled the T/B cover back a little to check tension after about 10k mi and it was at what seemed to be full tension. If I ever had to go back in, I would definitely replace because of needing that little nudge for full tension the 3rd time.

I have used a mechanics stethoscope for more years than I care to remember and If you can't hear a problem with that on any give moving part, it doesn't exist. The problem with the W/P is that you don't have a bolt or nut to rest it on in the center of the pulley. Nonetheless, you still should be able to rest it on the W/P housing past the pulley and pick up the noise if it was there. When using a MS, I always use it at a 45 degree angle or more to eliminate chances of getting pulled into the pulley by the belt and always angled in the direction the belt travels so there is no tendency any way. I am careful and NEVER make quick moves even if I slightly contact a pulley and am startled by the loud sound in the earpieces. But then I'm not startled easily anyway, I leave that to my wife! I chose "Common sense" as a middle name and left "Fear" for someone else.

Benjamin T

iTrader: (2)

i thought the tensioner assembly included the pulley and bearing as one unit? i believe the mechanic was referring to it as a complete unit. he did mention about the pin pulling part. to him, once the pin is out, it's set and done and cannot be reused if removed afterwards... not worth the risk to him, but after asking around (and what you just said), it seems to be subject to individual opinion.