TunedRX300

Slight correction, we are discussing servicing for regular maintence, not the actual warranty repair of transmission or engine. Federal law is against any auto manufacturer to deny warranty if the owner uses 1)non OEM parts 2) the service is performed at a non-dealer shop.

I was not trying to discuss about warranty(since my RX is out of warranty), but the fact that Toyota's T-TV ATF is not the only fluid that fillful the RX300 tranny spec. If it is, then Lexus must make it free for drain and fill services for every owner performed in order to honor warranty.

Lexmex's friend experience with Nissan is exactly what dealers use to reap more $ off the fear of us owners. That is fine if one is under warranty, for me, my powertrain warranty expired. I am going to make the best decision now that I am going to foot the $5000 repair bill if my tranny blew. By not going for a superior fluid and get additional protection from excessive heat generated by RX300's tranny, I am costing myself in the long run.
Again, if someone has URL link, oil analysis result, or real life example of how Amsoil ATF does not fulfill T-IV spec and caused RX300's tranny to fail, please post. But opinions such as "it is OEM", Amsoil's product is BULL, will stay as opinions without facts, scientific data.

Lexmex

In the case of my friend's Murano, there is actually a service bulleting about busted transfer cases for her model year. Design flaw?

Rather than getting a beefed up transfer case, the solution is some kind of switch that that actually decreases performance.

Even then, I told her I want to change out her transfer case fluid again and also do the rear differential with Royal Purple (since I have tons of the stuff left over), because I still think the problem could occur again and after reading similar posts on a Murano forum site, this problem is common.

The only rant I have against Amsoil is probably their marketing tactics and cost, but other than that I have no issue with their products, which in the end is the most important aspect.

TunedRX300

Lexmex,
I have looked around for the longest time about Toyota T-IV's data sheet but so far no luck. Amsoil and Mobil, even with so much marketing scrap, published their ATF data sheet.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_ATF_3309.asp
http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx
Flash point of Amsoil ATF 227 degree C is clearly better than Mobile ATF's 185 degree C
I agree Amsoil's stuff is not cheap, but I have been shelling out $4-5 per liter of ATF to Toyota. Pretty expensive considering they last only up to 15K. Talk about muscling its marketing machine, being the sole distributor, and making tie-in parts/services $ off cars, Toyota is probably more guilty of using brand name than Amsoil/Mobil.

If one read Mobil's spec, Aisin makes a lot of trannies for many car makers, including Honda and Toyota, thus sharing the same requirement of ATF. I remembered in RX300's owner manual, it states in small prints that fluid satisfies JWS 3309 can be used (I need to double check). Further proves that RX's ATF is spec specific, not supplier specific.

Lexmex

For some people, cost might be an issue, however I don't plan on getting a new vehicle (though a classic Mustang might soon be a reality), so keeping maintained what I have is job #1.

With Amsoil, I like their stuff, just that when you do a search on the Internet for oil comparisons, I always wind up with these 'disguised' Amsoil rep sites. I even have issues with a site like bobistheoilguy.com, as for a lot of people there is still some cleverly hidden marketing in the postings, but if you are wise, there is tons of good information on all types of fluids.

I know they don't have ExxonMobil's muscle in the marketing department, but still it irks me.

With the people I knew down here who were using Mobil 1 ATF down here, I think it was a case of that in their home countries, they had been using that product and the fact that Toyota had barely opened its doors in Mexico. I think when I went to go buy 7 bottles it came out to about 300 pesos or a little less than $30 USD.

BTW, Mobil 1 ATF is actually a great PSF fluid.

TunedRX300

Yes, when one looks past the marketing hype from both OEM and after market vendors, useful information do surface.
Right on P258 of my RX300 user's manual, in a foot note and bracket (anyone wants to guess why?)
is mentioned right after Aisin's web site list their powertrain products for a list of transmission customers, with Toyota as the biggest customer of all.
http://www.aisin.com/product/auto/drive/index.html
http://www.aisin.com/profile/customer/index.html
Looks all Aisin transmissions use JWS3309 complying fluids, which both Amsoil and Mobil ATF 3309 complies, same as Toyota T-IV. That is why a wide range of cars are listed by both Mobil and Amsoil.
Lexmex is right, the fact that no Amsoil user has reported tranny failure or shift problem is the most important factor. Having higher flash point than conventional ATF is just what I need to prolong the life of RX's tranny

Lexmex

I'd run a lot of things, except that getting stuff through Mexican customs is not only expensive, but sometimes the five fingered discount sees your precious items disappear.

HarrierAWD

Please re-read my message. I said you can use non-Toyota fluid if it really meets the spec. There is no way one fluid can mutate itself to different viscosity. Facts are facts.

Many aftermarket parts companies love to quote the Magnuson-Moss act. For the MMWA to stick, the aftermarket product must be made exactly to OEM spec. If it doesn't, the MMWA will not apply. A good example is the K&N air filter.

Here's my automotive product hall of shame: K&N, Techron, Amsoil, Slick 50, Splitfire spark plugs, GTC headlight cover, and the top honor goes to.... the Tornado air intake system!

HarrierAWD

Truth is not a democracy, nor it is the most popular opinion. I've given everyone the technical reason why you should stick with OEM quality tranny fluid. Pour what you like into your car.

Lexmex

K&N- This isn't a bad filter, just overpriced for what they claim, plus it oiled my MAF
Techron- Does work in Mexico
Amsoil- Well...

However, I fully agree with you on the rest. There tuning shops I know here in Mexico City that sell reputable products but virtually everyone of them sells the Tornado device. I understand what the claims are, but in the end it is one that will actually make you lose hp and lose gas mileage but the biggest loser is your wallet should you buy one of these things. I actually bought one way back in 2002 out of curiosity, but even my uncle tested one in a vehicle and just sad.

TunedRX300

Wow...I don't realize arguments can be substatiated by merely calling it "facts". How about an URL link? An oil analysis result? An actual owner on this forum ho reports Amsoil product is causing RX's tranny to fail?
ATF does not have to mutate, it is trannies that share the same spec. From Aisin's web links, looks like many car makers are using Aisin's transmissions - giving another verification that Mobil and Amsoil's data sheets are not BULL. Take a look at Toyota, it is using the same T-IV across GS, LX, RX/ES, LS models for the same reason - they share the spec even though each model has a different tranny design. Take a look at engine oil, same SAE spec is used by many engines and many automakers. Brake fluid, DOT 3/4 spec is almost used by everyone.
Again, from the start I never intend to debate with anyone, just want to find out about facts.

Lexmex

Well, we do know that other fluids in our RXs do change over time. My recent pictures of the gear fluid coming out of the rear differential and the transfer case (plus that awful smell) bear that out. In addition, you will find at places like bobistheoilguy.com talk about how motor oil can shear. I know my own personal experiences with different grades of Mobil 1 led me to use 0W40 for racing purposes.

With ATF, we can have red fluid, brown fluid, silvery or pinkish fluid after a drain/refill or for some who have tried the flush.

What I would suggest would be useful is that any DIY who is currently using anything other than OEM fluids, where it be ATF, coolant, motor oil, etc. post back findings (w/photos if possible). We may not be able to get oil analyses, but the more information we have in front of us, subjective or objective, the better we can make our own decisions.

I should probably lead by example with the next time I do an oil/filter change.

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

This thread is actually entertaining, assuming you can keep it to a low boil.
1) On the technical side, I have to side with TunedRX300. Until someone looks at the viscosity specs of T-IV, Amsoil, Mobil1,and Dexron, you can't know what the ranges are. They may overlap. T-IV may be a tighter spec, etc. I really don't think Amsoil is stretching when they claim compatibility, because the stuff works. Shift problems would show up if the viscosity was off. Toyota transmissions are sensitive to that.
2) I had a problem with Mobil1 ATF in my tranny before. Had to drain all that stuff out and go back to Toyota T-IV because it shifted like crap. Couldn't imagine how it could get that bad. The Mobil1 ATF I used was Dexron/Mercon compatible, but NOT T-IV. The Mobil stuff that is 3309/T-IV compatible is different than the standard Mobil1 ATF, unless they've changed it recently.
3) I'm going to try the Amsoil ATF because I haven't seen ANY bad reviews either, and have seen many very good ones. I really don't want to put non-synthetic T-IV back in, I run the car too hard for that.

I haven't seen a good place to get Amsoil, other than the Amsoil website. Anyone know how to get the ATF cheaper????? I'm ready to buy. It is a bit puzzling that you don't see this stuff in retail stores at all, say, next to the Royal Purple. Zaino is like that too, but that doesn't make it a bad product.

Jerry

TunedRX300

Amsoil uses its own pyramid levels of sales network. I posted a Want It Now on ebay and an Amsoil distributor sold me a case of ATF with better pricing. Frankly I prefer wide avaliability and cheaper pricing of Mobil products but Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF does not comply with T-IV spec. You can either buy it from Amsoil website or off ebay. PM me if you need more help.

Lexmex

Jerry,

Actually where I live, we never see any of the good fluids. It is a nightmare to get anything down here.

Just curious why did you use Mobil 1 ATF in the first place? In my friends' cases, Toyota wasn't able to offer it or did not exist at the time.

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

Mobil1 is synthetic ATF, whereas T-IV is not. That was the incentive. Bad move in hindsight.