Ups and downs of my day on Poconos North Track
06-23-11, 10:49 AM
#16
I agree, that Darb's racing is an extreme environment, but it is a "racing cat", so I am disappointed in that respect. I won't be tracking my car, maily just the drag strip everyonce in awhile so if I end up getting it, I should be alright. We'll have to see...
06-23-11, 11:10 AM
#17
I'm sure most of the folks out there with the same setup will be fine as they most likely won't be in that extreme environment, but now it certainly is something we should be putting our heads together to come up with a better alternative. Or stick to no cats.
06-23-11, 02:48 PM
#19
If I get another set out of cats from warranty Im going to have JE put V bands on each side and make a set of test pipes with V band so I can quickly change out my cats for test pipes at my will and will have the best of both worlds. Joe Z with Street and track option. Buts JE does not think RT is going to be friendly about free cats...
06-23-11, 04:19 PM
#20
Tech Info Resource
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High oil temp is not unusual at all. Mine always goes to the third bar from the top with the engine cover removed. With it on, it goes one bar from the top. See post 18 & 19.
Sounds like there weren't any fast drivers there. The F is a good car, but not even in the ballpark of a well driven Porsche, and a good Vette driver will pull away steadily. It's not possible to beat their lower weight and better power to weight ratio. A GTR in the right hands will spank you. In a less skilled driver's hands you'll think the F is a giant killer. It's not. Really.
The OEM cats have no issues with track duty at all. Sucks that Random Tech's units are not stable.
Sounds like there weren't any fast drivers there. The F is a good car, but not even in the ballpark of a well driven Porsche, and a good Vette driver will pull away steadily. It's not possible to beat their lower weight and better power to weight ratio. A GTR in the right hands will spank you. In a less skilled driver's hands you'll think the F is a giant killer. It's not. Really.
The OEM cats have no issues with track duty at all. Sucks that Random Tech's units are not stable.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 06-23-11 at 04:35 PM.
06-23-11, 10:01 PM
#23
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Hi Ryan,
First off, I am very glad to hear you got home safely...!
Also, very glad I got to speak to you Tuesday night.
Now, for those reading this thread for the first time.
Please keep in mind the PTS-Joe Z Exhaust for the IS-F does not come installed with Race CATs or any type of CATs. (Nor have we ever recommend any for it.)
*** Which is probably a good thing in cases like this.
Our Exhaust was Researched & Developed with the OEM Exhaust Manifolds in place, which retain the factory Primary CATs. Our system only deletes the Secondary CATs.
Technically once any type of modifications have been made to our system, the warranty we provide becomes void.
Now that we got that out of the way...
It's very unfortunate that this happened to Ryan at the race track. Obviously we can not comment as to why the "Race CATs" failed. But I can comment on what did not fail on our Exhaust.
We are very happy to see that our system was able to withstand these extreme conditions over and over again. Even with 2 CAT's being blown through the system; Ryan was able to see that our mufflers, resonators, flanges, welds and piping did not fail or take on any physical damage.
It's very clear Ryan has been hitting the track often and not holding back.
I'm also glad he took my advice to find a local muffler shop and unclog the system. Preventing any further damage to the Exhaust or worse.
Now onto to the Carbon Fiber Tips.
It's pretty clear that this cosmetic enhancement was not made to be raced with over and over again in repetitive extreme heat conditions. Especially at the race track.
If the Heat was strong enough to deteriorate & destroy 2 - Metallic High Flow CATs, I am not surprised it had damaging effects on our Dry Carbon Fiber sleeves.
According to my conversation with Ryan, the heat was so intense, that even the OEM Stainless Steel Diffuser / Tips started to turn a Goldish color as well..
I will be working with Ryan outside of this thread, to resolve the issue with his 3 Tips.. You might remember one was lost the other day, when one of his OEM Tips failed and fell off the highway somewhere. Unfortunately with 4th Carbon Tip attached to it..
So I feel for Ryan as he has had a very busy week with his IS-F.
Yet, I applaud him immensely for putting his IS-F on the track and giving it all its got!!
Best Regards,
Joe Z
First off, I am very glad to hear you got home safely...!
Also, very glad I got to speak to you Tuesday night.
Now, for those reading this thread for the first time.
Please keep in mind the PTS-Joe Z Exhaust for the IS-F does not come installed with Race CATs or any type of CATs. (Nor have we ever recommend any for it.)
*** Which is probably a good thing in cases like this.
Our Exhaust was Researched & Developed with the OEM Exhaust Manifolds in place, which retain the factory Primary CATs. Our system only deletes the Secondary CATs.
Technically once any type of modifications have been made to our system, the warranty we provide becomes void.
Now that we got that out of the way...
It's very unfortunate that this happened to Ryan at the race track. Obviously we can not comment as to why the "Race CATs" failed. But I can comment on what did not fail on our Exhaust.
We are very happy to see that our system was able to withstand these extreme conditions over and over again. Even with 2 CAT's being blown through the system; Ryan was able to see that our mufflers, resonators, flanges, welds and piping did not fail or take on any physical damage.
It's very clear Ryan has been hitting the track often and not holding back.
I'm also glad he took my advice to find a local muffler shop and unclog the system. Preventing any further damage to the Exhaust or worse.
Now onto to the Carbon Fiber Tips.
It's pretty clear that this cosmetic enhancement was not made to be raced with over and over again in repetitive extreme heat conditions. Especially at the race track.
If the Heat was strong enough to deteriorate & destroy 2 - Metallic High Flow CATs, I am not surprised it had damaging effects on our Dry Carbon Fiber sleeves.
According to my conversation with Ryan, the heat was so intense, that even the OEM Stainless Steel Diffuser / Tips started to turn a Goldish color as well..
I will be working with Ryan outside of this thread, to resolve the issue with his 3 Tips.. You might remember one was lost the other day, when one of his OEM Tips failed and fell off the highway somewhere. Unfortunately with 4th Carbon Tip attached to it..
So I feel for Ryan as he has had a very busy week with his IS-F.
Yet, I applaud him immensely for putting his IS-F on the track and giving it all its got!!
Best Regards,
Joe Z
06-23-11, 10:25 PM
#25
Tech Info Resource
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I just finished a weekend at CMP with temperatures in the high 90's. I got 3 hours of track time in 6 half hour sessions. I use half a tank of gas in a half hour session (about 33 miles), so I know there's plenty of heat the car needs to shed. The OEM setup is pretty bulletproof. This was my fourth track weekend in the F.
06-24-11, 07:09 AM
#26
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Hi Ryan,
First off, I am very glad to hear you got home safely...!
Also, very glad I got to speak to you Tuesday night.
Now, for those reading this thread for the first time.
Please keep in mind the PTS-Joe Z Exhaust for the IS-F does not come installed with Race CATs or any type of CATs. (Nor have we ever recommend any for it.)
*** Which is probably a good thing in cases like this.
Our Exhaust was Researched & Developed with the OEM Exhaust Manifolds in place, which retain the factory Primary CATs. Our system only deletes the Secondary CATs.
Technically once any type of modifications have been made to our system, the warranty we provide becomes void.
Now that we got that out of the way...
It's very unfortunate that this happened to Ryan at the race track. Obviously we can not comment as to why the "Race CATs" failed. But I can comment on what did not fail on our Exhaust.
We are very happy to see that our system was able to withstand these extreme conditions over and over again. Even with 2 CAT's being blown through the system; Ryan was able to see that our mufflers, resonators, flanges, welds and piping did not fail or take on any physical damage.
It's very clear Ryan has been hitting the track often and not holding back.
I'm also glad he took my advice to find a local muffler shop and unclog the system. Preventing any further damage to the Exhaust or worse.
Now onto to the Carbon Fiber Tips.
It's pretty clear that this cosmetic enhancement was not made to be raced with over and over again in repetitive extreme heat conditions. Especially at the race track.
If the Heat was strong enough to deteriorate & destroy 2 - Metallic High Flow CATs, I am not surprised it had damaging effects on our Dry Carbon Fiber sleeves.
According to my conversation with Ryan, the heat was so intense, that even the OEM Stainless Steel Diffuser / Tips started to turn a Goldish color as well..
I will be working with Ryan outside of this thread, to resolve the issue with his 3 Tips.. You might remember one was lost the other day, when one of his OEM Tips failed and fell off the highway somewhere. Unfortunately with 4th Carbon Tip attached to it..
So I feel for Ryan as he has had a very busy week with his IS-F.
Yet, I applaud him immensely for putting his IS-F on the track and giving it all its got!!
Best Regards,
Joe Z
First off, I am very glad to hear you got home safely...!
Also, very glad I got to speak to you Tuesday night.
Now, for those reading this thread for the first time.
Please keep in mind the PTS-Joe Z Exhaust for the IS-F does not come installed with Race CATs or any type of CATs. (Nor have we ever recommend any for it.)
*** Which is probably a good thing in cases like this.
Our Exhaust was Researched & Developed with the OEM Exhaust Manifolds in place, which retain the factory Primary CATs. Our system only deletes the Secondary CATs.
Technically once any type of modifications have been made to our system, the warranty we provide becomes void.
Now that we got that out of the way...
It's very unfortunate that this happened to Ryan at the race track. Obviously we can not comment as to why the "Race CATs" failed. But I can comment on what did not fail on our Exhaust.
We are very happy to see that our system was able to withstand these extreme conditions over and over again. Even with 2 CAT's being blown through the system; Ryan was able to see that our mufflers, resonators, flanges, welds and piping did not fail or take on any physical damage.
It's very clear Ryan has been hitting the track often and not holding back.
I'm also glad he took my advice to find a local muffler shop and unclog the system. Preventing any further damage to the Exhaust or worse.
Now onto to the Carbon Fiber Tips.
It's pretty clear that this cosmetic enhancement was not made to be raced with over and over again in repetitive extreme heat conditions. Especially at the race track.
If the Heat was strong enough to deteriorate & destroy 2 - Metallic High Flow CATs, I am not surprised it had damaging effects on our Dry Carbon Fiber sleeves.
According to my conversation with Ryan, the heat was so intense, that even the OEM Stainless Steel Diffuser / Tips started to turn a Goldish color as well..
I will be working with Ryan outside of this thread, to resolve the issue with his 3 Tips.. You might remember one was lost the other day, when one of his OEM Tips failed and fell off the highway somewhere. Unfortunately with 4th Carbon Tip attached to it..
So I feel for Ryan as he has had a very busy week with his IS-F.
Yet, I applaud him immensely for putting his IS-F on the track and giving it all its got!!
Best Regards,
Joe Z
06-24-11, 08:06 AM
#27
Darbs,
After thinking about this more and trying to figure out why your exhaust got so damn hot it all points to excess raw fuel which would have super-heated the cats and caused them to fail. Have you had your air/fuel checked? I know the air/fuel is fine with headers and exhaust, but I never checked it with the cats in place nor have I seen anyone post air/fuel with the addition of an Intake and ported manifold.
Thoughts?
After thinking about this more and trying to figure out why your exhaust got so damn hot it all points to excess raw fuel which would have super-heated the cats and caused them to fail. Have you had your air/fuel checked? I know the air/fuel is fine with headers and exhaust, but I never checked it with the cats in place nor have I seen anyone post air/fuel with the addition of an Intake and ported manifold.
Thoughts?
06-24-11, 08:23 AM
#28
^^^ James checked it on the dyno with intake, headers exhaust and it was fine. It has not been checked with the intake manifold but Im pretty sure the ECU has been adjusted to that for quite a while. Im interested to see what it does on the dyno next week.
06-24-11, 09:02 AM
#29
I sent this thread to Paul at PPE to get his comments. His response:
Lou
Hey Lou,
That is not shocking at all. I have seen a lot of melted metal cats.
Cats are more for street use/emissions purposes. In order for a metal cat to handle that type of abuse, the car would have to be tuned. He was definately getting fuel into the cat and it ignited inside the core causing it to fail. It doesn't take much to do that.
When companies say "race cat" they mean it flows better than a stock cat, that's all. The materials are the same.
Regards,
Paul
That is not shocking at all. I have seen a lot of melted metal cats.
Cats are more for street use/emissions purposes. In order for a metal cat to handle that type of abuse, the car would have to be tuned. He was definately getting fuel into the cat and it ignited inside the core causing it to fail. It doesn't take much to do that.
When companies say "race cat" they mean it flows better than a stock cat, that's all. The materials are the same.
Regards,
Paul
Last edited by flowrider; 06-24-11 at 09:06 AM.
06-24-11, 09:07 AM
#30
Lexus Connoisseur
The factory cats can take the abuse..granted you are using the factory headers. We flogged the IS F pretty hard at Laguna Seca and Auto Club Speedway in Fontana during track sessions. The cars never had heating issues and the brakes got pretty red hot when you're dealing with all the elevation changes at Laguna. One car's brakes even got on fire from the excessive heat after a hard run...but there was ever a problem with fade.