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-   -   How would you build the ultimate autocross sc400? (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/road-course-and-auto-x/272895-how-would-you-build-the-ultimate-autocross-sc400.html)

insomniac 03-27-07 12:21 AM

How would you build the ultimate autocross sc400?
 
Ok guys i just got back from autocross today, it was my first time and i ran better than a lot of people who are regulars with bmw, hondas, volkswagons and all that. I love the sport, its an extreme rush and i constantly kept improving throughout the day.

I have a 92 sc400 with the following upgrades that effect handling:
Tein CS Coilovers
19" volk racing gt7's
Toyo tires

Im looking to do a lot more but id like to know what you would do if you were me, to make the ultimate autocross sc400, please dont say sell my car and buy a better handling car because i love my sc because its rare and i wont do that!

TheMole 03-27-07 01:33 AM

Maybe try to reduce some of the overall/unsprung weight of the car. Get some good brake pads and maybe the daizen bushings to start. I always wanted to try autocross, but have not had the chance to. Good luck man!

insomniac 03-27-07 01:56 AM


Originally Posted by sc300max (Post 2510559)
Maybe try to reduce some of the overall/unsprung weight of the car. Get some good brake pads and maybe the daizen bushings to start. I always wanted to try autocross, but have not had the chance to. Good luck man!

Yeah i am switching to an optima battery and i ordered some corbeau seats that are on their way to get those heavy lexus seats out. I also took out the spare wheel and tools. i dont know what more i can really do about the weight issue without making my car look like dog poo.

You really should try autocross its such an adreneline rush. My first run i was so nervous i was going to get lost or make a fool of myself but once you get over that its so awesome.

DHBomber 03-27-07 02:21 AM

Good to see another SC out there! Hopefully i'll be ready by the 8th... I need to mount my new tires at the very least. Hope to see you/be there. As far as setup goes, it depends what class you're planning on running in and how serious you want to get. Getting the most tire is the first thing to do! The main choices in my mind being STU-8in wheel width max with a 245 street tire or ESP-Any DOT tire on any wheel.
This is a good read- http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
I ran the SC in Jan and was quite surprised at how well the car handled considering my basic setup. I have Supra AGX's and had stock TT springs installed (slightly pitchy but very well controlled). I switched to Tein springs since then and i'm pretty satisfied so far.
Daizen sway bar bushings f/r
BFI
Stock wheels/crappy Michelins... S-03s for next round
My thoughts... need way more tire, and some adjustable sways for tuning balance.
I have lots of upgrades in mind... but I think I better tune up the driver more than the car at this point.

Blizzy 03-27-07 09:10 AM

Get some LS400 or Supra Turbo front brakes. The bang for buck would pay huge dividends as you could approach corners having more speed with way more supporting stopping power. This is well under $1000...$500 or less is certainly possible with the LS400 swap. Cheap. Easy. Effective. Plus, it would fill your wheels better and improve looks.

Stiffer sway bars would have to help leaps and bounds. Your SC body has to be rolling all over the place, even with the Tein's dialed all the way up. The sway bars would keep your center of gravity moving in the direction that the steering inputs are intending the car to go. Again, this would be reasonable in price. I think Daizen makes some quality, stiff sway bars from the SC.

Stiffer coilovers and tires with better cornering stability would probably help you out. But, that would be a pretty big change since you already have the Tein CS and Toyo Tires...both of which are probably in good shape.

My vote: brakes and sway bars.

ps. congrats on keeping up with the regulars. confidence in yourself and your car has to be at an all time high.

Sly Guy Yu 03-27-07 11:36 AM

All u have is "luxury Coilovers" and wheels. U have a LONG way to go.

1. Weight Loss
2. Suspension
-Better coilovers
-Sway Bars
-Corner Balance
3. Brakes


The sc400's weight is ur biggest enemy.

If you really want to get into autocross competition the sc400 isnt for you. But ur gonna have a blast trying to control that weight... GL MAN!

Dougspeed 03-27-07 03:23 PM

With autoX, it's 90-95% driver.. practice improving your skills since you're still relatively new, then start the upgrades which should be with your brakes and tires, then tuning the suspension.
Personally, I'm afraid to push my SC that hard since it is 15 years old, so I save those duties for the S2000.
With that said, a friend of mine beat out every Porsche running at the autoX a couple weekends ago in a 1991 Honda Civic Si hatch.. It was quite a slap to the Porsche owners since it was hosted by the Porsche club of America!

So like I said before.. 90%-95% driver.. =)

Sly Guy Yu 03-27-07 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by Dougspeed (Post 2511895)
With autoX, it's 90-95% driver.. practice improving your skills since you're still relatively new, then start the upgrades which should be with your brakes and tires, then tuning the suspension.
Personally, I'm afraid to push my SC that hard since it is 15 years old, so I save those duties for the S2000.
With that said, a friend of mine beat out every Porsche running at the autoX a couple weekends ago in a 1991 Honda Civic Si hatch.. It was quite a slap to the Porsche owners since it was hosted by the Porsche club of America!

So like I said before.. 90%-95% driver.. =)



Alot of AutoX is about agility. With a light civic it should beat out every porsche. The si should be able to beat ur s2k if set up properly.

emoshun 03-27-07 09:35 PM

Improve by losing the 19's on the track, and get some wide 17" track tires...:thumbup:

xirforever 03-27-07 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by emoshun (Post 2512705)
Improve by losing the 19's on the track, and get some wide 17" track tires...:thumbup:

+1, and with everything everybody else has mentioned. But the best thing you can do now is get your suspension working like it was designed to BEFORE you start modding the hell out of it, this means replacing all the bushings, including the steering rack bushings. This will put a big smile on your face and wont affect your class :thumbup: Also, get some SS brake lines, cheap and effective

Next up, try a track day! biggest adrenaline rush and gets you some time working your car at high speeds, not to mention MUCH more seat time. I love autox, but its just a for fun thing on the weekend, the big events to get excited about are those track days :)

good luck and be safe!

insomniac 03-27-07 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by DHBomber (Post 2510578)
Good to see another SC out there! Hopefully i'll be ready by the 8th... I need to mount my new tires at the very least. Hope to see you/be there. As far as setup goes, it depends what class you're planning on running in and how serious you want to get. Getting the most tire is the first thing to do! The main choices in my mind being STU-8in wheel width max with a 245 street tire or ESP-Any DOT tire on any wheel.
This is a good read- http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
I ran the SC in Jan and was quite surprised at how well the car handled considering my basic setup. I have Supra AGX's and had stock TT springs installed (slightly pitchy but very well controlled). I switched to Tein springs since then and i'm pretty satisfied so far.
Daizen sway bar bushings f/r
BFI
Stock wheels/crappy Michelins... S-03s for next round
My thoughts... need way more tire, and some adjustable sways for tuning balance.
I have lots of upgrades in mind... but I think I better tune up the driver more than the car at this point.

Hey thanks for the advice and i hope to see you out there as well. Thanks for the link it was a good read like you said. As far as i know im in the ESP class, they did my inspection and told me i was ESP. I think i will be getting some new tires soon if im going to continue to autocross.

insomniac 03-27-07 10:03 PM


Originally Posted by Blizzy (Post 2510991)
Get some LS400 or Supra Turbo front brakes. The bang for buck would pay huge dividends as you could approach corners having more speed with way more supporting stopping power. This is well under $1000...$500 or less is certainly possible with the LS400 swap. Cheap. Easy. Effective. Plus, it would fill your wheels better and improve looks.

Stiffer sway bars would have to help leaps and bounds. Your SC body has to be rolling all over the place, even with the Tein's dialed all the way up. The sway bars would keep your center of gravity moving in the direction that the steering inputs are intending the car to go. Again, this would be reasonable in price. I think Daizen makes some quality, stiff sway bars from the SC.

Stiffer coilovers and tires with better cornering stability would probably help you out. But, that would be a pretty big change since you already have the Tein CS and Toyo Tires...both of which are probably in good shape.

My vote: brakes and sway bars.

ps. congrats on keeping up with the regulars. confidence in yourself and your car has to be at an all time high.

Very well explained blizzy i appreciate it.

Thanks everyone else, it seems like everyone had almost the same things to say. i dont think i will be switching coilovers because i dont have that kind of money but i do think i will start with a sway bar, bushings and some nice supra tt brakes! then go on to getting some 17" wide tires.

insomniac 03-27-07 10:04 PM

Ebay sells a front strut bar for like 35 bucks plus shipping.
Is this garbage? whats the diff between something like that and a JIC or cusco bar?

DHBomber 03-27-07 10:07 PM


Originally Posted by Dougspeed (Post 2511895)
Personally, I'm afraid to push my SC that hard since it is 15 years old, so I save those duties for the S2000.

So like I said before.. 90%-95% driver.. =)

Imagine the stress some 275 Hoosiers would add to the equation :D

ant1k 03-27-07 11:36 PM

carbon fiber , doors, trunk, and hood, then fiberglass fenders, get a cusco stb, trd sways, no tein products what soever, maybe hks? jic? so where the hell do you autocross in hawaii, id certainly like to know.

insomniac 03-28-07 12:02 AM


Originally Posted by ant1k (Post 2512935)
carbon fiber , doors, trunk, and hood, then fiberglass fenders, get a cusco stb, trd sways, no tein products what soever, maybe hks? jic? so where the hell do you autocross in hawaii, id certainly like to know.

Stadium, next autocross is april 8th.
cya there

insomniac 03-28-07 12:07 AM

Future suspension plans include:
Supra TT brake kit (dont know if i should get front, rear or both front and rear)
Daizen sway bar set
Daizen high performance control arm bushing kit
Daizen camber adjustment kit
Jic or cusco front strut tower bar
17" wheels with some wide tires (any suggestions?) dont wanna spend a lot

Sly Guy Yu 03-28-07 12:24 AM


Originally Posted by emoshun (Post 2512705)
Improve by losing the 19's on the track, and get some wide 17" track tires...:thumbup:



LOL, i didnt catch that one.

Sly Guy Yu 03-28-07 12:26 AM


Originally Posted by insomniac (Post 2512982)
Future suspension plans include:
Supra TT brake kit (dont know if i should get front, rear or both front and rear)
Daizen sway bar set
Daizen high performance control arm bushing kit
Daizen camber adjustment kit
Jic or cusco front strut tower bar
17" wheels with some wide tires (any suggestions?) dont wanna spend a lot


It's best to get front and back tt brakes for some balanced braking.

Strut bar doesnt do much, but i would suggest the carbing cause it has the master cylinder stopper.

Since u need to get as light as possible, i would go w/ te37's 17x9 and 17x10, but they cost a bit.

StiCk3 03-28-07 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by insomniac (Post 2512982)
Future suspension plans include:
Supra TT brake kit (dont know if i should get front, rear or both front and rear)
Daizen sway bar set
Daizen high performance control arm bushing kit
Daizen camber adjustment kit
Jic or cusco front strut tower bar
17" wheels with some wide tires (any suggestions?) dont wanna spend a lot

if you want to go uber cheap, get some supra TT wheels (245 front, 275 rear)
if your not concerned with looks get some 17x9 17x10 5zigen FN01RCs (265 front, 295 rear).

as for brakes i would get just the front setup to shave a little weight. might get some nice pads and ss brake lines to go with that.

I like where you're heading, but keep in mind that it's you, the driver, that defines how well you drive, NOT the car. Keep practicing with the setup you currently have until you've reached the full limit of the car's potential, THEN upgrade where necessary. Keep it up!!

DHBomber 03-29-07 12:01 AM

Definately DL the rulebook if you're planning on AX glory :cool:
If not... then you don't really have to worry... jus giv em!

TT brakes would be champ, do the full swap.
Speedbleeders and Motul RBF600... good stuff. Andy's and Off The Lip usually has the Motul in stock. HPI carries ATE Super Blue, good alternative + it's blue :D
thinking of trying the GS5/6 and R4S pads... neone?

Whiteline makes some adjustable sways. You'll probably need to make adjustments in the future. Plus it's an easy change to make, and can be done at the same time you're taking your race wheels on/off.

Torsen diff

Here's where the whole ESP, STX thing makes the difference. Enkei RPF1s are light and affordable but takeoffs from another car (esp if you still want to use the stock brakes for awhile) are probably the cheapest.
I noticed a whole lot of RT-615s out there and their reputation (along with the RE-01R) seems to be pretty good. 245 f/r is also a pretty good amount of tire, this might be the way to start.

Luke_in_SD 04-03-07 01:55 PM

Upgrade the stock brakes,
put in coilovers which a higher spring rate but with good valving
JIC FLTA2 is my pic for $$$

Get some smaller lighter wheels 17's maybe 16's (if they can clear the brakes), with some grippy tires (Federals).

Gut the whole car,

and get a 1.5way LSD

sourcemine 04-15-07 12:09 AM


Originally Posted by Sly Guy Yu (Post 2512999)
It's best to get front and back tt brakes for some balanced braking.

Strut bar doesnt do much, but i would suggest the carbing cause it has the master cylinder stopper.

Since u need to get as light as possible, i would go w/ te37's 17x9 and 17x10, but they cost a bit.

The carbing for the Supra? CA6410140LT is all I found, all around 280 shipped, any deals?

RedPhoenix 04-17-07 06:38 PM

whats the master cylinder stopper do?

Devir 04-20-07 06:08 AM

the master Cylinder stopper applies pressure to the MC reducing flex and increasing fluid pressure.

To really make this shine though, get metal braided break lines.

From what i've heard and read (including on this forum) is that it only fits the 300 and Supra. the MC stopper sadly does not fit the 400. I'd love to get one that does fit.

TreoWayne 04-21-07 05:20 PM

I'm a cheating bastard and want to modify my SC400 and still remain in F Stock. What Toyota factory parts can I use to improve my car's handling and stay in stock class?

I already have a set of 1998 GS400 17" five-spoke wheels. Will the 95+ LS400 calipers fit with these wheels? Supra calipers would be a dead giveaway. Will factory Supra springs stiffen and lower my car just a little? As far as I can tell Supra Konis are legal for stock class and will fit on my car. Is it even possible to tell a black poly suspension bushing (esp. sway bar bushing) from a rubber bushing after it is installed on the car? I think a Supra rear sway bar will bolt up. Is this true?

TheMole 04-21-07 05:53 PM

I think the 95+ LS400 4 piston calipers will fit under those wheels with some spacers. Yes factory Supra springs will lower your car a bit (~0.5") and you would have to use Supra shocks to go with it. The MKIV Supra sway bar will not bolt up unless you have the complete Supra rear subframe.

Blizzy 04-21-07 08:03 PM


Originally Posted by sc300max (Post 2568687)
I think the 95+ LS400 4 piston calipers will fit under those wheels with some spacers. Yes factory Supra springs will lower your car a bit (~0.5") and you would have to use Supra shocks to go with it. The MKIV Supra sway bar will not bolt up unless you have the complete Supra rear subframe.

I am going to have LS400 4 piston calipers and MKIV shocks with Swift springs installed on my ride within the week. I honestly can not wait. Weather is supposed to be perfect this weekend.

JspecSC3 04-23-07 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by emoshun (Post 2512705)
Improve by losing the 19's on the track, and get some wide 17" track tires...:thumbup:

The Kumho V710 were gripping for me when I first took my SC to the autocross. I would highly recommend those.

To improve handling on the SC I would look into changing out all the bushings, getting fatter sway bars, change out suspension from shock/spring combo to dampers, and do as much as I can to lighten the load.

MattSEG 04-23-07 10:14 AM

Get a cheapo auto-x toy like an old miata, or vw. The car is just not intended for auto-x as I see it. You might do well at an open track day though.

DGFNR 07-05-17 03:29 AM

Hey guys.

I get a fair number of referrals to http://farnorthracing.com from this site, so I figured I'd pass on some good news.

Autocross to Win is now a book on Amazon! Kindle and paperback.


Enjoy!

GloriousSC 03-13-23 06:55 AM

Bilstien AK shocks, Hyper coil springs 650lb/400lb, Titan big sways, some 18"x10" Front wheels and 18x11.5rear wheels with Yokohama Advan A052 265/35R18 f 295/35R18r. Supra TT brakes. The biggest change will most definitely be a OS Giken Super Lock LSD Differential. It was a revelation. That one part dropped over 3 seconds by itself on a tight AutoX course. It also made the car a grip machine to the point that my V8 SC400 can't break traction at all. Foot to the floor in a tight corner and it just zips around it no spinning. I would get that part over all the others if you are limited on funds. Even with a crap Tien setup and slidy 19's.

And if you get that far do a braille battery and the Carbon: doors, hood, fenders and seats skip the trunk. That alone will shave off over 400lbs off the front of the car. Don't do any weight savings or take anything out the rear. The car is 57f/43r weight distribution from the factory. Taking 400lbs off the front axle will bring it to ~50/50. If you do any weight saving in the rear you end up in the same place you started from just lighter. Most performance cars favor a rear weight bias for optimal handling. Lighten the front only. This will make the car turn in quicker with less mass and the rear will follow and rotate the car with the weight.

Don't listen to anyone saying the SC is not a good performance car. Toyota spent over a Billion dollars on it making that a farse. You just have to shave all the pudgy bits off and you have a front mid engined balanced machine with huge tire potential, double wishbone suspension and with a OS Giken Super Lock LSD can hang with the best of them well driven. I am usually second or third fastest overall in my SC400 compared to all the new metal out there. Usually the top two are on slicks and I was on All-seasons. That was with a bone stock engine. The SC will preform as well as you can imagine a car preforming if you know what you are doing with it.

Which brings me to my last point. Go to Racing school. I did as soon as I had a license and a car. I have been to over 4 racing schools now. Was the best $$ spent IMO. SCCA used to host them too. I went way faster with that than even the OS Giken LSD. I also have never been in an accident. I have been driving for 27 years now. The skills you learn there make you all around better even on the road. I think it should be mandatory to learn how to handle a car properly to get a license. Soapbox rant over. Just do it. If you want the shortcut for the highest speed for dollar: 1. Tires listed above. 2. OD Giken Super Lock LSD. 3. Racing school. You will probably shave over 10 seconds with those combos at your next Auto X and start placing on the podium each time.

My $0.03


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