370z tempting to buy 2015 rcf
02-20-19, 03:50 AM
#16
Maybe. From experience, I think investing in the driver is most important. Track time will teach you more than anything you could ever do on a public road. Having extensive experience with both, the first thing you learn on the track is how utterly slow you were driving on the street.
I frequently enjoy your posts and find you quite credible, especially from a technical perspective. I have especially enjoyed some of the debate as to if fancy aftermarket parts are making any appreciable difference. Sometimes enlightening, sometimes funny - I have been entertained. But I read a lot more than I post here and I feel like I've seen this movie before. Fact is - neither of the cars being discussed here are track cars. Both are street cars, bought by people to drive on the street. Then those people come here to have fun by discussing it. The simple answer to how to explore a car (not it's limits) on the street is - not safely. WIth that admitted, is this a safety lesson? I could link days of footage of people sliding around in street cars on the street doing things they should not do. It happens. I don't think anyone here was really suggesting anything on that level. Maybe the people here want to discuss how their street car feels on the street, you know, where they drive it every day.
I've read your signature many times after one of your posts and chuckled as I like the attitude, but respectfully no one was looking to debate you or talk about their "skillz". Do I agree with you about track time? Yes. Doing that ( no where near as much as you) taught me a great deal about myself, about tires and about brakes and the laws of friction. We were discussing how the two cars feel, regardless of the fact that we all know the rcf should be faster.
Last edited by Apone; 02-20-19 at 03:51 AM. Reason: paragraph spacing
02-20-19, 04:53 AM
#17
Intermediate
I thought of many responses to both of your posts in this thread and I can't quite figure your angle. As a moderator, you want to see discourse back and forth between enthusiasts about whatever the forum topic is right? But you seem to want to kill this thread by suggesting that only SCCA card members can reply. If we want to test that theory, we can certainly make a forum section for discussion of Lexus track racing only. I suspect that it will be empty, but hey why not get the experience documented...
I frequently enjoy your posts and find you quite credible, especially from a technical perspective. I have especially enjoyed some of the debate as to if fancy aftermarket parts are making any appreciable difference. Sometimes enlightening, sometimes funny - I have been entertained. But I read a lot more than I post here and I feel like I've seen this movie before. Fact is - neither of the cars being discussed here are track cars. Both are street cars, bought by people to drive on the street. Then those people come here to have fun by discussing it. The simple answer to how to explore a car (not it's limits) on the street is - not safely. WIth that admitted, is this a safety lesson? I could link days of footage of people sliding around in street cars on the street doing things they should not do. It happens. I don't think anyone here was really suggesting anything on that level. Maybe the people here want to discuss how their street car feels on the street, you know, where they drive it every day.
I've read your signature many times after one of your posts and chuckled as I like the attitude, but respectfully no one was looking to debate you or talk about their "skillz". Do I agree with you about track time? Yes. Doing that ( no where near as much as you) taught me a great deal about myself, about tires and about brakes and the laws of friction. We were discussing how the two cars feel, regardless of the fact that we all know the rcf should be faster.
I frequently enjoy your posts and find you quite credible, especially from a technical perspective. I have especially enjoyed some of the debate as to if fancy aftermarket parts are making any appreciable difference. Sometimes enlightening, sometimes funny - I have been entertained. But I read a lot more than I post here and I feel like I've seen this movie before. Fact is - neither of the cars being discussed here are track cars. Both are street cars, bought by people to drive on the street. Then those people come here to have fun by discussing it. The simple answer to how to explore a car (not it's limits) on the street is - not safely. WIth that admitted, is this a safety lesson? I could link days of footage of people sliding around in street cars on the street doing things they should not do. It happens. I don't think anyone here was really suggesting anything on that level. Maybe the people here want to discuss how their street car feels on the street, you know, where they drive it every day.
I've read your signature many times after one of your posts and chuckled as I like the attitude, but respectfully no one was looking to debate you or talk about their "skillz". Do I agree with you about track time? Yes. Doing that ( no where near as much as you) taught me a great deal about myself, about tires and about brakes and the laws of friction. We were discussing how the two cars feel, regardless of the fact that we all know the rcf should be faster.
02-20-19, 05:29 AM
#18
correct - much faster. My statement was meant to acknowledge the effect of confidence inspired by the car leading to faster driving. However, the rcf is a significantly faster vehicle.
To use track data a 3:05.8 (2015 RCF) vs. 3:17.5 (2008 G37s) vs. 3:12 (2009 370z NISMO).
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-more-feature/
To use track data a 3:05.8 (2015 RCF) vs. 3:17.5 (2008 G37s) vs. 3:12 (2009 370z NISMO).
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-more-feature/
02-20-19, 06:11 AM
#19
I came from a fully bolted and tuned 350z (284whp) and i will have to say that the 350z, although not a 370z was more in touch with the ground. Switching from a 6spd to an automatic has it own challenges as well. RC F is superior on many fronts including, comfort, style, overall speed and possibly reliability. (350 & 370s are reliable though) Where the 350 was more of an all out sports car, bumpy ride, but always in a good spot for acceleration, the RC F dials back some unless in Sport + mode and allows you the comfort of a luxury car especially in stop and go traffic. I tracked the Z several times and found that it to be mostly a go kart around the corners but haven't tracked the RC F, so i don't have a comparison. Over and above, unless you plan to live on the track with the car, the differences are negated, the RC F is faster in a straight line on the street. I find most people coming from the Z & G world to an RC F are looking to capture an increased sense of luxury while maintaining acceleration and speed and i believe the RC F accomplishes that well.
02-20-19, 07:38 AM
#20
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I thought of many responses to both of your posts in this thread and I can't quite figure your angle. As a moderator, you want to see discourse back and forth between enthusiasts about whatever the forum topic is right? But you seem to want to kill this thread by suggesting that only SCCA card members can reply. If we want to test that theory, we can certainly make a forum section for discussion of Lexus track racing only. I suspect that it will be empty, but hey why not get the experience documented...
I frequently enjoy your posts and find you quite credible, especially from a technical perspective. I have especially enjoyed some of the debate as to if fancy aftermarket parts are making any appreciable difference. Sometimes enlightening, sometimes funny - I have been entertained. But I read a lot more than I post here and I feel like I've seen this movie before. Fact is - neither of the cars being discussed here are track cars. Both are street cars, bought by people to drive on the street. Then those people come here to have fun by discussing it. The simple answer to how to explore a car (not it's limits) on the street is - not safely. WIth that admitted, is this a safety lesson? I could link days of footage of people sliding around in street cars on the street doing things they should not do. It happens. I don't think anyone here was really suggesting anything on that level. Maybe the people here want to discuss how their street car feels on the street, you know, where they drive it every day.
I've read your signature many times after one of your posts and chuckled as I like the attitude, but respectfully no one was looking to debate you or talk about their "skillz". Do I agree with you about track time? Yes. Doing that ( no where near as much as you) taught me a great deal about myself, about tires and about brakes and the laws of friction. We were discussing how the two cars feel, regardless of the fact that we all know the rcf should be faster.
I frequently enjoy your posts and find you quite credible, especially from a technical perspective. I have especially enjoyed some of the debate as to if fancy aftermarket parts are making any appreciable difference. Sometimes enlightening, sometimes funny - I have been entertained. But I read a lot more than I post here and I feel like I've seen this movie before. Fact is - neither of the cars being discussed here are track cars. Both are street cars, bought by people to drive on the street. Then those people come here to have fun by discussing it. The simple answer to how to explore a car (not it's limits) on the street is - not safely. WIth that admitted, is this a safety lesson? I could link days of footage of people sliding around in street cars on the street doing things they should not do. It happens. I don't think anyone here was really suggesting anything on that level. Maybe the people here want to discuss how their street car feels on the street, you know, where they drive it every day.
I've read your signature many times after one of your posts and chuckled as I like the attitude, but respectfully no one was looking to debate you or talk about their "skillz". Do I agree with you about track time? Yes. Doing that ( no where near as much as you) taught me a great deal about myself, about tires and about brakes and the laws of friction. We were discussing how the two cars feel, regardless of the fact that we all know the rcf should be faster.
So saying something feels better doesn't hold a lot of weight with me unless you're talking about ride quality. It might feel awesome, but actually measures a whole lot slower when you put a watch on it. Exhausts are very often like this - more sound doesn't mean faster, it just means louder. Sometimes they're even slower...I am not saying having the TVD makes the car slower, but my time with the one in the GS F has not left me terrifically impressed with what it does in any mode compared to a good clutch type limited slip spool especially when you consider the 68 pound weight penalty that comes with the current implementation. It is vastly better than a Torsen for sure, but I still like the OS Giken unit in my IS F better.
AFA being a moderator - I only enforce the rules. I am a volunteer like all the other moderators and even the site admin. I am not here to encourage or discourage discourse, but I am free to express my opinion the same as any other member.
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Apone (02-20-19)
02-20-19, 10:48 AM
#21
Indeed the RC F is faster than the Z cars in this thread. Here's my issue - feel and speed are not related. A very fast car isn't easy to drive fast, it is fast in the hands of someone skilled at driving fast. Also, taking the advice to get on the gas driving into a turn before the apex only works well with motorcycles. I realize a limited slip can help you get on the gas sooner, but if you are anywhere near the limits of adhesion on the front (as you would be on a track) and you get in the gas before you've rotated the car you are going straight, not turning. AMHIK. It took me quite some time to learn to drive cars after racing motorcycles and literally hammering the gas driving into the turn to bring the front wheel around. Even with a TVD, you won't turn the car with the rear wheels. You can help turn the car with the rear, but at anything approaching fast, this method will put either two or all four wheels off the road, or into a curb, and something you really didn't want to happen today is unavoidable. There are LOTS of things we do to make cars turn better - but adjustments to the rear is a smaller influence when approaching the limits of adhesion - I think the TVD is much the same as changing stagger in the rear wheels (different diameter tires on the same axle as they do in NASCAR and in all circle track racing where this is legal) except it is far more adjustable in service. It helps turn the car but it's not what ultimately gets the car rotated - front grip is always primary.
So saying something feels better doesn't hold a lot of weight with me unless you're talking about ride quality. It might feel awesome, but actually measures a whole lot slower when you put a watch on it. Exhausts are very often like this - more sound doesn't mean faster, it just means louder. Sometimes they're even slower...I am not saying having the TVD makes the car slower, but my time with the one in the GS F has not left me terrifically impressed with what it does in any mode compared to a good clutch type limited slip spool especially when you consider the 68 pound weight penalty that comes with the current implementation. It is vastly better than a Torsen for sure, but I still like the OS Giken unit in my IS F better.
AFA being a moderator - I only enforce the rules. I am a volunteer like all the other moderators and even the site admin. I am not here to encourage or discourage discourse, but I am free to express my opinion the same as any other member.
So saying something feels better doesn't hold a lot of weight with me unless you're talking about ride quality. It might feel awesome, but actually measures a whole lot slower when you put a watch on it. Exhausts are very often like this - more sound doesn't mean faster, it just means louder. Sometimes they're even slower...I am not saying having the TVD makes the car slower, but my time with the one in the GS F has not left me terrifically impressed with what it does in any mode compared to a good clutch type limited slip spool especially when you consider the 68 pound weight penalty that comes with the current implementation. It is vastly better than a Torsen for sure, but I still like the OS Giken unit in my IS F better.
AFA being a moderator - I only enforce the rules. I am a volunteer like all the other moderators and even the site admin. I am not here to encourage or discourage discourse, but I am free to express my opinion the same as any other member.
The following users liked this post:
konichiwa3 (02-20-19)
02-20-19, 08:49 PM
#23
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I would suggest you drive both. You won't get the TVD with a sunroof. I know what I would do, but that's me and I am pretty opinionated. I will say it's pretty shocking the TVD is $19K to replace and even a Torsen diff is less than 20% of that price.
02-20-19, 09:04 PM
#24
Lexus Test Driver
p.s. Use slalom mode in normal city test driving.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 02-20-19 at 09:08 PM.
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