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here in the US you at least have the magnusson moss act, but dunno what kind of protections there are in canada
Originally Posted by Htony
Never know, exhaust mod. will affect back pressure for sure. Like you mentioned so many junks as far as mod. s concerned. When I drove Bimmer, I only installed BMW approved ones. Never had any issues with dealership in regard to warranty service. They installed it....
the type of exhaust means nothing when the exhaust valves are closed for a compression test.
I think this is dealer dependent and on a lot on how the Individual's approach.
I've always gotten EXCELLENT warranty and after warranty (self paid) services with my MB's. Several years ago I bought a SLK280 hardtop convertible and relocated across the country and had minor issues (none of the issues we're disabling). So I took it to a totally different MB dealership in a different state (not the one who sold it to me) for minor issues. One of which was the center console broke and will not close properly. The MB dealership took care of it without any hassles. The we're many more minor non disabling issues (but still annoying).......all got sorted out with the same MB dealership very timely. I felt they treated me well and no issues. Within 6 months of my initial purchase I went for a full AMG SLK55 hardtop convertible. I kept the original SLK280. (I guess we had his and her hardtop convertibles). The AMG also had some minor issues (again, none were disabling). I kept the AMG in SoCal and the SoCal MB dealership took care of all issues without any hassles as well. I also felt they treated me well. No complaints.
All the Lexus dealerships I had experiences for services with were all EXCELLENT as well (except for the time one Lexus dealership OVERFILLED on my RCF on the complementary oil change). It was a relatively small Lexus dealership and I don't think they see much of the "FULL F MODELS". Still no excuses, I know.
The only "brand" I had issues with was the Volvo dealership in Reno NV many many years ago. I was driving through Reno NV many years ago with my 6 years old Volvo 960 4 door sedan (top of the line for Volvo at the time) and there was a noise coming from the rear axle. I called the Reno NV Volvo dealership and wanted to know if I can take it in. To my surprise, that Volvo dealership said maybe I should just buy another new Volvo!!! It was only 6 years old at the time!!! Anyway, I end up taking it to an indy in Reno and got the U joint replaced without much difficulty. It only took like a minute for the owner of the shop riding with me to tell me exactly what is wrong. I end up keeping the Volvo for a long time after that though.
Dealer dependent and how approached . . . My wife was a Lexus employee and the service manager and his wife are two of our very good personal friends.
I just had a high pressure fuel pump and a serpentine belt tensioner covered by goodwill through my local Porsche dealership. That's about $2,250 on a 2010 with 63,000 miles.
Based on my experience, Lexus and not the Lexus dealership stood behind their product less than any other manufacturer with whom I have dealt. Heck, I had Lotus goodwill 3 transmissions and an engine over the years in track abused cars with horrible over revs.
Pretty sad when Lexus cannot stand behind crappy interior workmanship, design, abnormal wear and tear issues, paint defects and now bails on an engine over an exhaust. An exhaust?!?!? Are you kidding me???
I have taken twin turbo Porsches up to 750 hp at the wheels, had a Ruf 550 and etc. and never saw engine failures even with hybrid turbos in addition to cat and secondary muffler bypass, intakes, stand alone fuel management and etc. pretty sad for Lexus to claim their engine is so shyte that an exhaust is capable of grenading the engine they are putting into their high end sports cars.
Spoke to tech support at Apexi regarding the exhaust and warranty issue I'm having. The one guy seemed quite concerned. Wanted me to call back the more senior employee at the company who has connections with Lexus corporate.
I'm thinking with actions like this taken by Lexus corp, the aftermarket for Lexus could be seriously compromised. Way to go Lexus, F performance enthusiasts might now think twice about getting into the brand. And if I was an aftermarket company id seriously think twice about developing products for Lexus as well.
Anyone out there thinking of now holding off on any mods...
Spoke to tech support at Apexi regarding the exhaust and warranty issue I'm having. The one guy seemed quite concerned. Wanted me to call back the more senior employee at the company who has connections with Lexus corporate.
I'm thinking with actions like this taken by Lexus corp, the aftermarket for Lexus could be seriously compromised. Way to go Lexus, F performance enthusiasts might now think twice about getting into the brand. And if I was an aftermarket company id seriously think twice about developing products for Lexus as well.
Anyone out there thinking of now holding off on any mods...
Wolfman
You should tell Apexi that Lexus is claiming their exhaust damaged your engine and you will hold them responsible. Me being a lawyer, I would sue both and let them fight it out as to who is responsible before getting stuck with an engine bill.
Question in my mind is going to be: Why buy a Lexus anymore? Reliability? Well, that's slipping and others like Porsche is gaining on reliability. Sure, the other "BORING" cars Lexus makes are "more reliable", but I don't want boring cars anymore. Had enough boring cars already!! I think I'll get a Porsche instead next time!!
Whatever happened to their slogan some years ago: "Pursuit of perfection"?
I think it got replaced with "Engineering the impossible"? Are they doing some kind of HIGH SCHOOL SCIENCE FAIR EXPERIMENT? LIKE THE FOLLOWING (I'M WAITING FOR "PERFECTION"):
Dealer dependent and how approached . . . My wife was a Lexus employee and the service manager and his wife are two of our very good personal friends.
I just had a high pressure fuel pump and a serpentine belt tensioner covered by goodwill through my local Porsche dealership. That's about $2,250 on a 2010 with 63,000 miles.
Based on my experience, Lexus and not the Lexus dealership stood behind their product less than any other manufacturer with whom I have dealt. Heck, I had Lotus goodwill 3 transmissions and an engine over the years in track abused cars with horrible over revs.
Pretty sad when Lexus cannot stand behind crappy interior workmanship, design, abnormal wear and tear issues, paint defects and now bails on an engine over an exhaust. An exhaust?!?!? Are you kidding me???
I have taken twin turbo Porsches up to 750 hp at the wheels, had a Ruf 550 and etc. and never saw engine failures even with hybrid turbos in addition to cat and secondary muffler bypass, intakes, stand alone fuel management and etc. pretty sad for Lexus to claim their engine is so shyte that an exhaust is capable of grenading the engine they are putting into their high end sports cars.
******Update 16 Oct, 2017*******
Some good news. I have to give some credit, where some credit is due. I heard back from Lexus today and I have been assured that my Powertrain Warranty is back in effect!! Darn, that's good news. A higher end car like this without powertrain warranty could have caused me many sleepless nights.
I don't want to give out too many details at this time but I get the feeling that Lexus is wiling to work with me again and do the right thing. Thanks to all who have helped so far and I hope to have more good news shortly.
******Update 16 Oct, 2017*******
Well gent's the plot thickens. I can't figure this out.
Lexus has asked me to continue oil consumption tests (I know, I'm on my 8th test or more by now). This time they wanted to properly seal/tamper proof the engine and have me drive for 1,500 km (932 miles). You can see this test was completed at 35,452 km and yielded 0.7 L / 1,500 km ??? Also the test at 33,562 km yielded a normalized 0.71 L / 1,500 km (note though that the oil level was approx 2 mm above the low mark and the tech only filled 1.00 L; I was expecting more like 1.3L this close to the low mark).
The problem I see though, is that the L/1,500 km values are trending lower. Look at the 1.15, 1.11, and 1.37 L/1500 km values I got around 17-19K km. How is it possible that the consumption is almost only half as much as before now at around 35K km???
What is going on here? How is this possible? At 35,452 km (22,028 miles) is this engine still breaking in? Is the dealer trying pulling a fast one on me(note I witness 90% of the process, especially when confirming the oil levels; however I can't always confirm what is going into the engine)? Would say adding 10W30 instead of 5W30 give these results? Are they sneaking in some additive with the oil change to stop the oil consumption?
Oil consumption isn't what I would be complaining about at this juncture. I would be complaining about the low compression numbers. Ridiculously low per their own specs and per their own service manual, the engine is bad. Oil consumption is just a symptom. The compression numbers tell the whole story. I would be insisting on a new engine.
Oil consumption isn't what I would be complaining about at this juncture. I would be complaining about the low compression numbers. Ridiculously low per their own specs and per their own service manual, the engine is bad. Oil consumption is just a symptom. The compression numbers tell the whole story. I would be insisting on a new engine.
Did they do a blow down test as well? If they did not, tell them to do it. IMO, oil consumption issue is coming from the low compression/leakage in the cylinder.
Just let them fix the problem. Engine replacement is not a must as long as the issue is solved. Something must be wrong with valve train or piston rings. BTW,
all cyinders show low compression? Maybe worth a visit to an engine rebuild shop to have the situation assessed.
Did they do a blow down test as well? If they did not, tell them to do it. IMO, oil consumption issue is coming from the low compression/leakage in the cylinder.
Just let them fix the problem. Engine replacement is not a must as long as the issue is solved. Something must be wrong with valve train or piston rings. BTW,
all cyinders show low compression? Maybe worth a visit to an engine rebuild shop to have the situation assessed.
Sorry Htony I disagree. The Lexus techs in my opinion are not master engine rebuilders. I don't want Lexus techs to rip apart my engine and then maybe put it back together following all the exact specifications and sequences that must be followed. I just don't think your average Lexus tech has the expertise and time required for this job. I will accept a) an new car (probably not going to happen or b) a brand new factory engine from the engine assembly plant in Japan (not someones remanufactured garbage)
Note the techs at the dealership, from my experience, have struggled with getting oil levels, tire air pressure, routine checks, and some other basic concepts right.
Sorry Htony I disagree. The Lexus techs in my opinion are not master engine rebuilders. I don't want Lexus techs to rip apart my engine and then maybe put it back together following all the exact specifications and sequences that must be followed. I just don't think your average Lexus tech has the expertise and time required for this job. I will accept a) an new car (probably not going to happen or b) a brand new factory engine from the engine assembly plant in Japan (not someones remanufactured garbage)
Note the techs at the dealership, from my experience, have struggled with getting oil levels, tire air pressure, routine checks, and some other basic concepts right.
wolfman
So very true about most dealerships. From an experience my inlaws had with a vehicle some years back. Long story short....the dealer did not screw the oil filter back on tight when they changed the oil. Oil leaked out while driving and motor seized. After the dealer agreed that the issue was their fault (took a little time), the dealer replaced the motor with a "new" one. "New" was a subjective term. The motor was new, but, it was built new and had something wrong with it and had to be torn down and rebuilt. That is what the dealer put back into their vehicle. they had no issues with the "new" motor and drove it for ~100K miles.
I wonder what Lexus would do? Brand spanking new or "new" like what my inlaws got???
Agree 110% compression and leak-down merely justify the oil consumption is the symptom of a faulty engine...
Any updates, OP?
Quick update. My car is now fully back to the OEM exhaust (whoa the car is so quiet now). Now Lexus claims we can continue with the oil consumption testing and follow the "standard warranty procedures". An oil change was also performed and I've been asked to drive for 1500 km with the stock exhaust, after which they will measure the oil consumed. I'm quite certain that the oil consumption problem will persist. My guess is it might even be worse given the stock exhaust is so restrictive, to the point of elevating the temperature in the combustion chamber causing more oil to burn off.
******Update 01 Apr, 2018******* Some not so good news. Haven't provided an update in quite some time. Have been very busy with life. Have to unfortunately report that there is no resolution to my engine oil consumption issue. Lexus Canada continues to deny that there is a problem with my RCF engine. I hope they are right, as the last thing I want is somebody tearing into my engine. Here are few points to consider:
I have driven approx. 4,000 km since the last consumption test. Perhaps incredibly the oil level is sitting at about 80-90% on the dip stick, relative the low and high dimple. So almost no oil has been consumed even half way through the oil/filter service interval (note I have not been driving that much lately). Now, this has been a harsh winter in Toronto and the road conditions have been tricky. More than 90% of the time the engine has not seen much above 1,500 to 2,000 rpm. Has the engine miraculously "fixed" itself? I hope so but a better explanation is that at low revs it has no problems sealing the combustion chamber properly.
I met with the Lexus Canada warranty manager and the service manager at my dealership in Jan/Feb 2018. Lexus continues to insist that they will stand behind their product and if there is a problem with my car they will address the issue. The problem is that the warranty manager is convinced that there is no problem? He believes that changes to the engine system (i.e. adding an exhaust) may have contributed to the high oil consumption. He also believes that the dry/wet compression tests were maybe not done properly by the Lexus techs? Also he has all the faith in the engine management system being so advanced that on a per cylinder basis, if necessary, it will spit out a code and then finally confirm that there is a problem with this engine? In the meantime we ignore all the evidence that has been collected and wait and sit there until the engine management system confirms that a problem is truly present with this engine? That was the meeting in a nutshell and I was essentially told to take a hike for now.
My next steps are as follows. I hope the warranty manger is right and no problem exists. I doubt it. Now that spring is just around the corner I'll be back to normal/spirited driving; lets see how the oil consumption changes. My friend has a good relationship with a master tech at another dealership (unfortunately far away). It sounds like he wants to help. I might get him the check a couple cylinders for dry/wet compression. If he confirms the bad results I'll go after Lexus.
Any further ideas would greatly be appreciated. Thanks.
10-15-17, 05:22 PM
