danielTRLK

That's a tough question. I have no idea what the power difference between 91 and 94 octane is on the RC F. I've been told by RR Racing that using ethanol nets no gains on the RC F and then later proceeded to say N/A don't benefit from ethanol, which is very factually wrong. If the ECU is well tuned by Toyota as RR claims it to be, then an increase in octane really won't benefit much as much as in a vehicle that has less than stellar factory tuning, hence the reason they made not have found a power increase with E85. I personally believe no one has explored E85 on the RC F, as you would need a huge fuel system upgrade as you have 16 injectors and the pump.

On the 15' 5.0L Mustang, 91 vs 93 was less than a 10HP difference. To answer your question simply, you would have to dyno at 91 and 94, determine power differences and measure the pro vs cons. There's a lot of long term benefits to running quality fuel that can't be quantified in one dyno to consider as well. Efficiency and clean burning is hard to quantify in just a few miles.

I'm thinking about getting RR's tune, they can tune up to E30. E30 is on average with 93 E10 and E85 @80%, 96.45 Octane.

E30 with 91 E5 and E85 @80% is 95.7 octane.

WolfManRCF

This is my daily driver. My commute to work is very reasonable. 30 to 40 min one way mostly highway. About 20% of the commute is stop and go. 60% normal driving. 20% spirited driving. I avoid trying to hit the rev limiter at any time. On spirited driving I will not go much past 6000 rpm. Now that it is summer in Ontario I am Sport S+ mode and Manual mode about 80% of the time. I don't have a problem with engine compression braking but avoid excessive downshifts. My current long term fuel consumption (probably haven't reset the counter in over a month) is sitting at about 14.5 mpg.

Curious Daniel what test item are you looking at when looking at the oil being like a W20 or W30?

What's your best guess as to why my engine is consuming so much oil? My theory right now is valve train. Improper quality control in the valve guides. This is a high compression engine, under engine braking the high vaccum created is sucking the oil past the oil seals and valve guides. Note this engine has had consumption issues since day one.

wolfman

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

If it were sucking that much oil down the intake guides, you'd have detonation or your KCLV would be stupid low. Oil has a very low octane rating, and excessive oil in the cylinder being combusted will show up as knock or knock retard. You would be wise to check KCLV to validate/invalidate the oil down the guide theory. I'd be a lot more inclined to believe the rings didn't seat well. A leakdown test should confirm or deny this.

I bought a '93 GTS Celica (no, not the AllTrac) brand new and it was an oil burner from jump no matter what I did to it. About a liter every 1500km. I ended up trading the car for a '94 Supra TT Coupe. Best move I ever made until the ex-wife drove it into a wall, but that's a different tale of woe. I followed the break-in instructions Toyota provided. Never again.

danielTRLK

how many miles on this engine? Let's switch everything over to miles for now.

No, that valve train is Yamaha designed, it is one of the best valve trains ever made in an engine.

How did you break in this engine?

I would be interested to see how seated those rings are. As Lance said, check the compression. At 1L per 1,000km, that is very high. You have a lot of fuel dilution taking place and this engine is running hot, it is not burning efficiently.

The Viscosity at 100c, at 8.95 is low. My oil for example as you can see, holds it's grade at 10.18. Anything less than 9.3 centistokes at 100c is considered a 20 weight or less. You can see me leaving the dealer oil which mine was at 8.31 and how a better oil maintains it's viscosity. Fuel dilution is a major factor in an oil sheering. I think they calculated your Fuel % and Water PPM. I really wish they had given you the Viscosity at 40c, that is very important as well.

Do you have the RR Racing intake tube and Air/Oil Separator?

Here's what we can do in the meantime, let's change out that low grade oil you're using right now. Let's use RLI's BioSyn 5W30 HDMO Low ASH, with a WIX regular or XP filter. Let's get a new air filter in there as well, You can pick up the WIX engine air filter for $29.99 with free shipping on eBay. I buy four at a time to reduce my inclination to not change them. USE your vehicle's maintance manager, it is VERY USEFUL.

danielTRLK

And switch over to Shell, at a minimum BP, but please change your fuel to Shell.

isfvss

Can you explain why Shell is so good in USA. In OZ we have Shell, BP, Caltex,and United. I don't know if I would be the same blend (Shell) We have 91 93 95 98 100 octane. Also have you any info on OZ oils I am using 5/30 fully synthetic Castrol Magnatec cheers.

Htony

Our cars only use Shell premium, nothing but Shell premium. Otherwise car will complain, LOL! If a drive does not kotice when fuel is switched to different brand, he ain't a driver. In a pinch
maybe Petro Canada premium.

WolfManRCF

Hi Daniel,

My engine is at approx. 13,800 miles. Ill check out RLI BioSyn and see if I can even find it in Canada. No modification to the car other than full cat back Apexi exhaust non resonated. I'm wondering if this exhaust is causing the engine to run lean, assuming we can even trust the oil analysis.
I bought this car with approx. 2,400 miles from a Lexus dealership. This was the General Managers personal car and I was the first title on the car. The evidence, tire wear and brake wear, showed that he drove the car moderately. When I checked the dipstick the oil level was sitting at around 60 to 70 % from low to high dimple. At around 3,600 miles after I started driving the low oil level warning light came on for the first time. I think I drive the car much harder than he did.

Again thanks for all your insights.

wolfman

Leander311

iTrader: (2)

Daniel, I received your test kits and again thank you but am also again curious about your insistence on Shell gas. As I stated before, Costco is quite proud of their fuel with the science to back it up, and along with AAA, does the most scientific testing I've seen available to the average consumer regarding fuel quality, and while AAA remains agnostic to brands for obvious reasons, it highly praises the Top Tier designation, which Costco proudly surpasses with their "5x EPA-mandated minimum" (Perhaps substantially better than Top Tier's minimums, as Costco's testing was to find the "sweet spot" level of diminishing returns.

In any case, my RR Racing Air/Oil Separator and Tune landed on my front porch literally an hour ago, the former of which I believe will make a far larger impact on engine cleanliness, oil consumption, and performance than the difference between Costco/Shell fuel... and doing the math, the difference to me in cost between these fuels is ~$500 annually!! ...enough to more than cover a couple UOA's, the air/oil separator, and perhaps even to switch to RLI's organic unicorn tears oil you've been preaching! Eat your heart out, Geico!

Again, thanks for your insights as well.

danielTRLK

Well there's a lot to it, in short here is why it really shines. From the refinery to the final gas station, Shell's standards are just simply much higher. Their fuel is cleaner, they use quality additives, and they're strict about how it's transported. The quality additives are what allow things like your valves to stay cleaner during burning and post EGR cycles. The transporation aspect is why it's the same in every different area.

This information comes from multiple different sources and NOT just from a lab source. My uncle, a truck driver who transports fuel for the USN, a position that ironically requires a Top Secret government clearance, for years as a teenager used to always talk to me about how much better Shell was. How their tanks were always clean, their loads had the right additives, etc. Chevron and the rest just didn't care.

Another guy I've met who owns a jobbing service of sorts, always says the same things.

Then there's other fuel analysts that will tell you the same, and ultimately, UOA shows engines burning cleaner and more efficiently with Shell fuel.

Some people that will read this will go, oh this guy is nuts. Here is what they don't understand. You can feed your engine a low quality oil and a low quality fuel. Will it explode? No. Will it stop running? No, in due time though it will have less life, but it will certainly run more than most people will keep there cars on this forum. So why should I care? Well, because it affects fuel economy, efficiency and the overall ability to repeatly make peak power. Think of two people, you can have an overweight individual who eats McDonald's every day, he might die from a heart attack but it's very possible he will live a decently long life. Take another individual, who eats properly every day, and he may die from a bus running him over, but it's very possible he will llive a decently long life too. Here is where it matters, the overweight individual will be limited in the things he can do, his self esteem will be low as will his nutrients in his body. The other individual will be able to do many things including running marathons well into his 70's. In the end, the individual who ate properly was able to do things that required his body to peak again and again, well into old age. The other individual could not and would have possibly had a heart attack attempting to do so. Both lived a long life, the difference was the properly feed individual wasn't limited by his engine and kept getting to do the things he liked the most, time and time again, with little to no penalty for doing so.

If I had enough $$, I'd take two cars, strap them on a dyno and break them down after 100,000 to see the differences in the engines that the fuel made.

Leander311

iTrader: (2)

Have you read RR Racing's development blog for the IS-F? Given RC-F's similar platform and even more similar engine, many products apply to both models. See their notes on the Air/Oil separator Daniel and I have repeatedly mentioned. After I'd noticed how many other IS-F owners use the AOS, as well as your notes about aggressive driving, this may be the perfect addition to your RC-F:
http://blog.rr-racing.com/news/2016/04/27/project-is-f/

I'm literally off to install mine now... cheers!

-Nick

danielTRLK

Wolfman, they should ship to Canada, if you can't manage to get it, try the Amsoil SS.

Costco from my understanding purchases different fuel from different distributors, so you never know what you're really getting. AAA's study about synthetics which someone posted here earlier, makes me laugh. You have to remember, they're not experts in this field and they are easily confused as such, they also have to take generic approaches and have to make things that will appeal or apply to users in all 48 states. And finally, Pennzoil Platinum is the best oil in the world and they have all the most scientific graphs and charts to prove it! The science in this field, is easily manipulated based on who's paying the $$$$$$$. I even got a cease and desist from Mobil on another forum lol. In short, I've seen limited UOA with Costco fuel but it's never as clean. Certainly not horrible, just not the best.

My UOA all show vehicles running Shell just burned much cleaner. There is a member on this forum, after being told to switch from Chevron to Shell, that self reportedly, had his oil consumption stop, I didn't think it would stop entirely but those are his words.

Terry says the same thing, although for different reasons.

I wish RLI would give me a marketing position for them, their 5W30 HDMO oil is really so good, I'd blow it out of the waters. Unfortunately, most oil people and science people think marketing is a sham, little do they know how much more science is in marketing than their own. It's not easy work, but thankfully I don't sell their stuff.

How is the difference betweel Shell and Costco $500?

I think some people here will get devastated if you can't get shell or you can't use RLI. Here is the truth, these are the Best choices for fuel and oil, it doesn't mean it's the only choice. If financially it doesn't make sense to purchase RLI, then it doesn't. But again, I've sort of been asked what's the best, there are plenty of other solutions that provide a good value as well. But for most of the people on this forum, the difference between switching is a few $$ and easily made up in the improved fuel economy and wear. This is a $70,000 car afterall, insurance, tires and fuel costs alone are expensive. And I find a lot of people complaining to me about how the $20-25 is going to kill their bank, yet they have thousands of dollars in appearance mods? Again it's what we value that will be the deciding factor, but maybe value your engine over rims. You won't hurt me or my feelings but consider what $25 really is over a period of 6 months~.

Htony

Did you do the blow down test yet? Even simple compression test? As simple as took a look at PCV? Exhaust system affects back pressure.... Discussion, discussion is not going any where. In old days we drove cars without oil analysis yet took care of problems.

danielTRLK

Very little info on anything from Australia

Exhaust should have very little effect on your engine. you could check your PCV valve like Htony says, but that would have shown up on the FTIR if it was clogged.

Trust me when I say dealers are good at making cars look new, lol. It is their job afterall! So, am I correct in understanding, you did not do anything to break in this car?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Small piece of news here. All US gasoline starts from the same base stock. There is no Shell, BP, Costco, Exxon, Texaco (etc.) base fuel. The base fuel all comes from the same stock locally to meet the 200+ individual fuel standards mandated locally. The ONLY difference is the additive packages, and they are dumped in the truck when they load the base fuel. So claiming anything like what I've read above does not match what I have learned from my friends in the industry. Not the testing industry, the petroleum industry. The only time Atlanta has seen an out of state base stock was after a hurricane shut down Houston and QT was the only game in town because they were running trucks from New Jersey refineries. Every drop of gasoline in Atlanta comes from the pipeline, and there are no brands on the pipeline for base fuel.

Again - from my friends in the petroleum industry, chemical engineers responsible for additive packages - the key to success is run different additive packages because they are antagonistic. One brand's deposits are burned off by another brand's additives and vice versa. It has been like this for a very long time and is unlikely to change.

ALL the advantages being claimed by Shell assume the station's tanks are clean (few really are and they're typically brand new), and their delivery systems have not been compromised. Also really rare.

I don't disagree there are advantages to different additive packages, but running the same thing all the time only means you'll build up whatever deposits that package leaves and you will never get rid of it. Ever.