Real or Synthetic Oil....
03-08-17, 03:27 PM
#106
Lexus Fanatic
FTIR is the needed for ways to see active additives left, sulfation, nitration, oxidation, etc.
You can have 1,000ppm of zinc but without FTIR you can't see how many that are active additives are left.
Yes it will harm the engine and oil. How much? need data to determine. ARMY uses FTIR, I know because we are the official lab of the US Navy, the only branch that does not have it's own oil analysis program. Also a lot of my veteran buddies know a lot about oil analysis because they ran labs for the Army. Blackstone can not even be considered by any government agency, 1.) they have no certification. 2.) they lack equipment.
That's like going to a doctor that does not have a degree or certification......................
Ok the auto forums use blackstone because it's cheap and is setup to do onsie and twosie samples. A lab that has FTIR machines would not be able to stay profitable on a $28 sample, once per year or in your case every few years. None of the big players are in the retail market, not enough money to be made. I came on here because I wanted to bring to you guys some real science without you guys having to pay for it so you can see the differences.
FTIR is a machine
You can have 1,000ppm of zinc but without FTIR you can't see how many that are active additives are left.
Yes it will harm the engine and oil. How much? need data to determine. ARMY uses FTIR, I know because we are the official lab of the US Navy, the only branch that does not have it's own oil analysis program. Also a lot of my veteran buddies know a lot about oil analysis because they ran labs for the Army. Blackstone can not even be considered by any government agency, 1.) they have no certification. 2.) they lack equipment.
That's like going to a doctor that does not have a degree or certification......................
Ok the auto forums use blackstone because it's cheap and is setup to do onsie and twosie samples. A lab that has FTIR machines would not be able to stay profitable on a $28 sample, once per year or in your case every few years. None of the big players are in the retail market, not enough money to be made. I came on here because I wanted to bring to you guys some real science without you guys having to pay for it so you can see the differences.
FTIR is a machine
I just bought some German Castrol 0W30 for my GS which is very highly rated but getting tough to find yesterday. They have a pretty good deal going on now with 5 quarts and a KN oil filter for $29.
03-09-17, 11:49 PM
#107
I'm not going to spend money to prove myself. If you want to spend the money that's a different story.
You'll see what a real analysis should look like soon. by tuesday or wednesday.
You'll see what a real analysis should look like soon. by tuesday or wednesday.
03-10-17, 06:56 AM
#108
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Don't worry, this is going to happen.
05-21-17, 07:17 PM
#109
Daniel, was hoping you could weigh in on a few questions:
Whats your opinion on fill-for-life tranny fluid?
I have used Lucas upper cylinder lubricant in my Civic Si, and it typically yielded 1-3 mpg. Used it mostly in the winter months. Do you see a downside to using a product like that?
Is the new Mobile 1 Annual Protection oil on-par with the Redline? I"m seeing Mobil 1 Annual Protection at $49 / 5 qts vs Redline Oil at $49 / 4 qts.
Lastly, I really appreciate you sharing knowledge here on this forum.
Thanks,
Jeff
Whats your opinion on fill-for-life tranny fluid?
I have used Lucas upper cylinder lubricant in my Civic Si, and it typically yielded 1-3 mpg. Used it mostly in the winter months. Do you see a downside to using a product like that?
Is the new Mobile 1 Annual Protection oil on-par with the Redline? I"m seeing Mobil 1 Annual Protection at $49 / 5 qts vs Redline Oil at $49 / 4 qts.
Lastly, I really appreciate you sharing knowledge here on this forum.
Thanks,
Jeff
05-21-17, 10:02 PM
#110
blah blah blah, I used to work in the trans business ironically. We never understood what Mercedes and BMW wanted out of the LTF, just didn't make sense. So I got to meet Lobuxracer today in person! What an awesome guy! Me and him chatted for a while, ironically we talked about this stupid LTF stuff. He mentioned he had heard it had something to do with the EPA, which I can definately believe. I'll let him chime in on that one.
I'd change this trans fluid every 50k, or after a few track days. It's $50-100 for the fluid, why risk a trans over fluid? Even my dealer quoted me at $220 to service it. Too cheap to question an expensive item like that, unless you have a 9 year unlimited warranty like I do. I plan on putting 500,000 miles on my RC-F before I sell it. For me, there's little to no point in servicing it, since they will be on the hook when it does go, which will be before the warranty ends. I have 8.5 years remaining of warranty. And I'm at 30,000 miles.
What you're seeing with friction modifiers is a stronger ring seal being made especially when cold, easily netting you those gains you mentioned. Beware of some modifiers, they do work short term but are devastating long term, as they actually pick away at the internals. ArchOil is good stuff, I'd use half of what any of those companies recommend.
I'm here in ATL this week for the STLE annual meeting and one of the things talked about here was transmissions, well everything here is about engines, trans, diff and fluids.
I have seen some better results from ArchOil products. That stuff can work, get this, I met one of the sexiest girls ever from Shell, we had a crazy conversation about friction modifiers and nanotribology. She confirmed many of the things I've been saying for years, chemical applications will net us a lot of gains over the next years and not just oil. Thankfully, I'm committed to another beauty of God.
M1 is a good oil, redline, motul and amsoil are great oils. Still not the best oil for this engine. There is cheaper for better out there, and it's BIO based. What use are you using your car for? the oils all matter what you use them for M1 is a great EOCI, it is not a track day oil.
In the end, good analysis really helps identify and make corrections. Hope that helps.
I'd change this trans fluid every 50k, or after a few track days. It's $50-100 for the fluid, why risk a trans over fluid? Even my dealer quoted me at $220 to service it. Too cheap to question an expensive item like that, unless you have a 9 year unlimited warranty like I do. I plan on putting 500,000 miles on my RC-F before I sell it. For me, there's little to no point in servicing it, since they will be on the hook when it does go, which will be before the warranty ends. I have 8.5 years remaining of warranty. And I'm at 30,000 miles.
What you're seeing with friction modifiers is a stronger ring seal being made especially when cold, easily netting you those gains you mentioned. Beware of some modifiers, they do work short term but are devastating long term, as they actually pick away at the internals. ArchOil is good stuff, I'd use half of what any of those companies recommend.
I'm here in ATL this week for the STLE annual meeting and one of the things talked about here was transmissions, well everything here is about engines, trans, diff and fluids.
I have seen some better results from ArchOil products. That stuff can work, get this, I met one of the sexiest girls ever from Shell, we had a crazy conversation about friction modifiers and nanotribology. She confirmed many of the things I've been saying for years, chemical applications will net us a lot of gains over the next years and not just oil. Thankfully, I'm committed to another beauty of God.
M1 is a good oil, redline, motul and amsoil are great oils. Still not the best oil for this engine. There is cheaper for better out there, and it's BIO based. What use are you using your car for? the oils all matter what you use them for M1 is a great EOCI, it is not a track day oil.
In the end, good analysis really helps identify and make corrections. Hope that helps.
05-22-17, 05:09 AM
#111
blah blah blah, I used to work in the trans business ironically. We never understood what Mercedes and BMW wanted out of the LTF, just didn't make sense. So I got to meet Lobuxracer today in person! What an awesome guy! Me and him chatted for a while, ironically we talked about this stupid LTF stuff. He mentioned he had heard it had something to do with the EPA, which I can definately believe. I'll let him chime in on that one.
I'd change this trans fluid every 50k, or after a few track days. It's $50-100 for the fluid, why risk a trans over fluid? Even my dealer quoted me at $220 to service it. Too cheap to question an expensive item like that, unless you have a 9 year unlimited warranty like I do. I plan on putting 500,000 miles on my RC-F before I sell it. For me, there's little to no point in servicing it, since they will be on the hook when it does go, which will be before the warranty ends. I have 8.5 years remaining of warranty. And I'm at 30,000 miles.
What you're seeing with friction modifiers is a stronger ring seal being made especially when cold, easily netting you those gains you mentioned. Beware of some modifiers, they do work short term but are devastating long term, as they actually pick away at the internals. ArchOil is good stuff, I'd use half of what any of those companies recommend.
I'm here in ATL this week for the STLE annual meeting and one of the things talked about here was transmissions, well everything here is about engines, trans, diff and fluids.
I have seen some better results from ArchOil products. That stuff can work, get this, I met one of the sexiest girls ever from Shell, we had a crazy conversation about friction modifiers and nanotribology. She confirmed many of the things I've been saying for years, chemical applications will net us a lot of gains over the next years and not just oil. Thankfully, I'm committed to another beauty of God.
M1 is a good oil, redline, motul and amsoil are great oils. Still not the best oil for this engine. There is cheaper for better out there, and it's BIO based. What use are you using your car for? the oils all matter what you use them for M1 is a great EOCI, it is not a track day oil.
In the end, good analysis really helps identify and make corrections. Hope that helps.
I'd change this trans fluid every 50k, or after a few track days. It's $50-100 for the fluid, why risk a trans over fluid? Even my dealer quoted me at $220 to service it. Too cheap to question an expensive item like that, unless you have a 9 year unlimited warranty like I do. I plan on putting 500,000 miles on my RC-F before I sell it. For me, there's little to no point in servicing it, since they will be on the hook when it does go, which will be before the warranty ends. I have 8.5 years remaining of warranty. And I'm at 30,000 miles.
What you're seeing with friction modifiers is a stronger ring seal being made especially when cold, easily netting you those gains you mentioned. Beware of some modifiers, they do work short term but are devastating long term, as they actually pick away at the internals. ArchOil is good stuff, I'd use half of what any of those companies recommend.
I'm here in ATL this week for the STLE annual meeting and one of the things talked about here was transmissions, well everything here is about engines, trans, diff and fluids.
I have seen some better results from ArchOil products. That stuff can work, get this, I met one of the sexiest girls ever from Shell, we had a crazy conversation about friction modifiers and nanotribology. She confirmed many of the things I've been saying for years, chemical applications will net us a lot of gains over the next years and not just oil. Thankfully, I'm committed to another beauty of God.
M1 is a good oil, redline, motul and amsoil are great oils. Still not the best oil for this engine. There is cheaper for better out there, and it's BIO based. What use are you using your car for? the oils all matter what you use them for M1 is a great EOCI, it is not a track day oil.
In the end, good analysis really helps identify and make corrections. Hope that helps.
what are you recommending as an everyday oil and what should be in it for track day?
thanks.
and if you have pics of the sexy Shell gal, please share
05-22-17, 07:16 AM
#112
If you're doing EOCI greater than 4-5,000mi without oil analysis, I'd use M1 EP, not regular M1.
Get a good analysis so you're not guessing, it's like playing with diabetes.
Lmfao, now I know where V-power comes from.
05-22-17, 04:50 PM
#113
Pit Crew
Wix does offer the XP, part number 57041XP. It does have the end caps... they cause no issue with flow through the housing, but I can see why you may think they do.
The stock bypass valve is nothing exotic, quite similar to what is found in many spin on filters... the point about Lexus wanting to have control over the bypass is valid, though. I'm working on a real bypass for the cap, it uses a piston and coil spring for... well, more precise control than the stock piece.
The stock bypass valve is nothing exotic, quite similar to what is found in many spin on filters... the point about Lexus wanting to have control over the bypass is valid, though. I'm working on a real bypass for the cap, it uses a piston and coil spring for... well, more precise control than the stock piece.
05-24-17, 10:32 AM
#114
Dealership will get whatever oil they can get the best deal on.
I use RedLine 5W-30 in my IS-F. Car runs great. So far every person I recommended it who used it came back and told me how great their car runs.
my .002 cents.
I use RedLine 5W-30 in my IS-F. Car runs great. So far every person I recommended it who used it came back and told me how great their car runs.
my .002 cents.
05-25-17, 10:55 AM
#116
Driver School Candidate
IDK. Certainly I'm not an engineer nor in any related automotive fields.
From what I've read in the initial brand new engine break in period, the REGULAR oil helps SEAT the RINGS on the pistons. I switched to FULL SYNTHETIC OIL at 15k miles. I think 15k miles is more than enough for initial break in.
On my last oil change at 10k miles, the Lexus dealer OVERFILLED BY MORE THAN LIKE 2 QUARTS. The oil dipstick was more than two inches ABOVE the TOP MARK!!! That Lexus dealer was a SMALL volume dealership and rarely see any FULL "F" cars. A lot of F Sport whatever, but no FULL "F"s. AFTER this episode, I decided to do my own oil changes.
I just think the benefits of FULL SYNTHETIC OIL out weigh any risks, if any. I think the only risk with FULL SYNTHETIC OIL is the additional COST. Since I'm switching to FULL SYNTHETIC OIL at so early in the engine's life cycle, the risk of FULL SYNTHETIC OIL "seeping" into areas previously "plugged up by sludge from REGULAR OIL" is minimized.
Mobile ONE SYNTHETIC OIL is used as INITIAL FILL in some of the world's high performance cars. Surely if there is any potential harm, this would have already surfaced.
Finally over the years I find synthetic oil makes the engine run quieter, smoother, and respond faster. Especially when the ambient temperature goes to either extremes. Maybe it is all psychological. LOL.
From what I've read in the initial brand new engine break in period, the REGULAR oil helps SEAT the RINGS on the pistons. I switched to FULL SYNTHETIC OIL at 15k miles. I think 15k miles is more than enough for initial break in.
On my last oil change at 10k miles, the Lexus dealer OVERFILLED BY MORE THAN LIKE 2 QUARTS. The oil dipstick was more than two inches ABOVE the TOP MARK!!! That Lexus dealer was a SMALL volume dealership and rarely see any FULL "F" cars. A lot of F Sport whatever, but no FULL "F"s. AFTER this episode, I decided to do my own oil changes.
I just think the benefits of FULL SYNTHETIC OIL out weigh any risks, if any. I think the only risk with FULL SYNTHETIC OIL is the additional COST. Since I'm switching to FULL SYNTHETIC OIL at so early in the engine's life cycle, the risk of FULL SYNTHETIC OIL "seeping" into areas previously "plugged up by sludge from REGULAR OIL" is minimized.
Mobile ONE SYNTHETIC OIL is used as INITIAL FILL in some of the world's high performance cars. Surely if there is any potential harm, this would have already surfaced.
Finally over the years I find synthetic oil makes the engine run quieter, smoother, and respond faster. Especially when the ambient temperature goes to either extremes. Maybe it is all psychological. LOL.
I don't know what was used by first owner?
Should I use synthetic oil or continue with the regular oil that is being used now.
I want to do the right thing.
Your perspective and input will be appreciated as I an not a technical person.
Thanks in advance.
Atul
05-25-17, 01:50 PM
#117
Pole Position
What year is the ES350? From your post, I suspect it is two years old?
I'm not an engineer nor a mechanic/technician nor anything to do with the automobile world. But I had been changing my own oil for the last 25 years plus without any problems.
There were some concerns about switching from Dyno oil on "high mileage" cars to synthetic oil due to possibly the "thinner synthetic oil" going to places where the Dyno oil can't go and thereby causing leaks. If anyone out there disagree, please chime in.
But I took a chance on two vehicles I owned previously (both DID NOT HAVE ANY OIL LEAKAGE/OIL BURNING PROBLEMS when I sold/traded them in.
1. 2000 Lexus LX470 that I bought brand new with 8 miles on the odo in 2000. I had used Dyno oil with very religious oil and filter changes at every 3000 miles. I got tired of changing the oil so frequently after about 90K miles I switched to Mobile ONE SYNTHETIC oil. I changed my oil change interval to every 6500 miles or so. This old LX470 ran like a charm. Finally in 2013 my wife and I could not resist all that new technologies in the then new 2013 LX570, WE traded our old LX470 for a brand new 2013 LX570. OUR old LX470 had some 280k+ miles on the odo with zero oil leaks or any oil burning or oil consumption.
2. Similarly with our old 1995 Volvo 960 bought brand new back in 1995. I decided to switch from Dyno oil to synthetic oil at around some 110k miles. We sold it back in 2013 with some 190k+ miles on the odo with zero oil leaks or any oil burning or oil consumption.
So you need to check out the car and see if CURRENTLY there are any oil leaks or oil burning. If none, then proceed to do synthetic oil changes. Still there is MAYBE A SMALL RISK OF OIL LEAKAGE.
If you are not ready, then I would just stick to Dyno oils.
Anybody not agree with the above, please chime in.
I'm not an engineer nor a mechanic/technician nor anything to do with the automobile world. But I had been changing my own oil for the last 25 years plus without any problems.
There were some concerns about switching from Dyno oil on "high mileage" cars to synthetic oil due to possibly the "thinner synthetic oil" going to places where the Dyno oil can't go and thereby causing leaks. If anyone out there disagree, please chime in.
But I took a chance on two vehicles I owned previously (both DID NOT HAVE ANY OIL LEAKAGE/OIL BURNING PROBLEMS when I sold/traded them in.
1. 2000 Lexus LX470 that I bought brand new with 8 miles on the odo in 2000. I had used Dyno oil with very religious oil and filter changes at every 3000 miles. I got tired of changing the oil so frequently after about 90K miles I switched to Mobile ONE SYNTHETIC oil. I changed my oil change interval to every 6500 miles or so. This old LX470 ran like a charm. Finally in 2013 my wife and I could not resist all that new technologies in the then new 2013 LX570, WE traded our old LX470 for a brand new 2013 LX570. OUR old LX470 had some 280k+ miles on the odo with zero oil leaks or any oil burning or oil consumption.
2. Similarly with our old 1995 Volvo 960 bought brand new back in 1995. I decided to switch from Dyno oil to synthetic oil at around some 110k miles. We sold it back in 2013 with some 190k+ miles on the odo with zero oil leaks or any oil burning or oil consumption.
So you need to check out the car and see if CURRENTLY there are any oil leaks or oil burning. If none, then proceed to do synthetic oil changes. Still there is MAYBE A SMALL RISK OF OIL LEAKAGE.
If you are not ready, then I would just stick to Dyno oils.
Anybody not agree with the above, please chime in.
I bought a used Lexus ES 350 and previous owner is the second owner and has used regular oil for the past two years. Car has 66,000 miles.
I don't know what was used by first owner?
Should I use synthetic oil or continue with the regular oil that is being used now.
I want to do the right thing.
Your perspective and input will be appreciated as I an not a technical person.
Thanks in advance.
Atul
I don't know what was used by first owner?
Should I use synthetic oil or continue with the regular oil that is being used now.
I want to do the right thing.
Your perspective and input will be appreciated as I an not a technical person.
Thanks in advance.
Atul
Last edited by lexusrus; 05-25-17 at 01:55 PM.
05-25-17, 08:41 PM
#118
I love when I hear things like I told someone to run Redline and they came back and said it's amazing, etc. Like Really?(Kim K face) Your car talks to you now huh? Without oil analysis you should almost never say, my car ran better. The truth is you can't see what the oil is doing in 5,000 without millions of dollars in lab equipment. You're talking about 3 micron particles you can't even see.
2. The old myth of switching from conventional to sythetic is a bunch of old myths and the biggest myth I hear nonstop. The problem with older "synthetics back in the day" was that they didn't have the right kind of extreme pressure and anti-wear additives, leading to seals swelling and bad wear on certain components. That was over 20 years ago now. M1 is not a synthetic oil, lol. It is conventional, but the truth is Exxon had a fight with BP, they went before the BBB and the BBB ruled in the suit, that because a Group III+ is so highly refined compared to a tradional Group I, II, and III, that it could be marketed as a synthetic oil. Wam bam, ding dong do. Don't believe me? We have to run M1 as a conventional oil in our machines or the machine gets all sorts of weird readings. That's because the machine can actually tell if an oil is truly synthetic during testing with enough baselines. So M1 is not a truly pure "synthetic" by definition. Very few oils are truly synthetic. Most have base stocks of Group III+
3. There is no reason to not run a "synthetic oil". Do you like more horsepower, do you like better fuel economy, and do you like your engine's to last longer? If this is the case, "synthetic" oil is for you. If you hate all of the above, get a crummy supertech oil from wal-mart, actually for what it's worth, it's not all that bad!
4. If you have a car with leaks, run M1 EP, it will actually help keep the leaks from getting worse compared to conventional.
5. The fact is Redline is a good oil, but without data, you are making things up.
6. While Redline is good, there is a far superior oil on the market that is cheaper. For perspective, the VI of redline is around 180~, the oil I run in my RC-F has a VI of 240. Redline doesn't even compare, granted it is a better racing oil in many applications than say M1.
2. The old myth of switching from conventional to sythetic is a bunch of old myths and the biggest myth I hear nonstop. The problem with older "synthetics back in the day" was that they didn't have the right kind of extreme pressure and anti-wear additives, leading to seals swelling and bad wear on certain components. That was over 20 years ago now. M1 is not a synthetic oil, lol. It is conventional, but the truth is Exxon had a fight with BP, they went before the BBB and the BBB ruled in the suit, that because a Group III+ is so highly refined compared to a tradional Group I, II, and III, that it could be marketed as a synthetic oil. Wam bam, ding dong do. Don't believe me? We have to run M1 as a conventional oil in our machines or the machine gets all sorts of weird readings. That's because the machine can actually tell if an oil is truly synthetic during testing with enough baselines. So M1 is not a truly pure "synthetic" by definition. Very few oils are truly synthetic. Most have base stocks of Group III+
3. There is no reason to not run a "synthetic oil". Do you like more horsepower, do you like better fuel economy, and do you like your engine's to last longer? If this is the case, "synthetic" oil is for you. If you hate all of the above, get a crummy supertech oil from wal-mart, actually for what it's worth, it's not all that bad!
4. If you have a car with leaks, run M1 EP, it will actually help keep the leaks from getting worse compared to conventional.
5. The fact is Redline is a good oil, but without data, you are making things up.
6. While Redline is good, there is a far superior oil on the market that is cheaper. For perspective, the VI of redline is around 180~, the oil I run in my RC-F has a VI of 240. Redline doesn't even compare, granted it is a better racing oil in many applications than say M1.
05-26-17, 05:34 AM
#119
Pit Crew
At this point, the Wix 57310 appears to be the same filter cartridge as the 57041. I spoke with Wix tech support last year about it, they have the same dimensions and beta ratios (which I can't place my hands on) listed for both part numbers. The difference lies in the extra gasket and vertical drain valve tool being part of the 57041 package. So if one wants to try 57041XP, it will fit. The end cap does not restrict the flow.
05-26-17, 01:59 PM
#120
There is a little mom and pop oil compani in your backyard, Renewable Lubricants, use their superHD biosynthetic 5W30 with LOW ASH. it's recommend for diesels and turbocars. Change based on oil analysis, this is not a long term oil.
If you're doing EOCI greater than 4-5,000mi without oil analysis, I'd use M1 EP, not regular M1.
Get a good analysis so you're not guessing, it's like playing with diabetes.
Lmfao, now I know where V-power comes from.
If you're doing EOCI greater than 4-5,000mi without oil analysis, I'd use M1 EP, not regular M1.
Get a good analysis so you're not guessing, it's like playing with diabetes.
Lmfao, now I know where V-power comes from.