Has RC-F TVD actually been measured in any way?
12-22-14, 08:33 PM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Has RC-F TVD actually been measured in any way?
Trying to decide on ordering the PE Performance Option.
Is there any test data published on how much better cornering is with TVD, like differences in time of a Slalom or Figure-8 test
with TVD on or off since the key advantage will be the acceleration after the apex? Instead, all I see is reviewers
saying "better" or "allows getting on the throttle faster"!!!
I my test drive there was no change to test the difference since the option was not on the car I got to drive.
I met a pro drive that works for Lexus (at a car show test drive in Phoenix) that tested with the TVD option and he told me for a "daily driver" I would not notice the difference even if driving hard on a road trip in the mountains. He said only on the track where your at the slip angle limit and pushing very hard would it pay off with a noticeable ROI. He felt that the sport driving in the mountains that I do, the TVD would only provide an noticeable advantage if I was at the very edge of the traction limit and it would pretty dangerous even for me as a very good Simracer and periodic tracker. Why did he say this too me, maybe due to the lack of mountain corner run outs, cliffs and grader ditches that one is exposed to as a non pro driver. :-) Clearly he would only push it to have an effect on a track vs on a highway road trip. If I do track it now and then I would like to have the TVD if it really makes a big difference.
Is there any test data published on how much better cornering is with TVD, like differences in time of a Slalom or Figure-8 test
with TVD on or off since the key advantage will be the acceleration after the apex? Instead, all I see is reviewers
saying "better" or "allows getting on the throttle faster"!!!
I my test drive there was no change to test the difference since the option was not on the car I got to drive.
I met a pro drive that works for Lexus (at a car show test drive in Phoenix) that tested with the TVD option and he told me for a "daily driver" I would not notice the difference even if driving hard on a road trip in the mountains. He said only on the track where your at the slip angle limit and pushing very hard would it pay off with a noticeable ROI. He felt that the sport driving in the mountains that I do, the TVD would only provide an noticeable advantage if I was at the very edge of the traction limit and it would pretty dangerous even for me as a very good Simracer and periodic tracker. Why did he say this too me, maybe due to the lack of mountain corner run outs, cliffs and grader ditches that one is exposed to as a non pro driver. :-) Clearly he would only push it to have an effect on a track vs on a highway road trip. If I do track it now and then I would like to have the TVD if it really makes a big difference.
Last edited by rjmalm; 12-22-14 at 11:06 PM. Reason: missing text
12-23-14, 05:34 AM
#2
Probably won't know that answer until a TVD and non TVD model get tested on the same track, no data exists that I know of yet. I can't imagine the TVD being that valuable for everyday driving.
Trying to decide on ordering the PE Performance Option.
Is there any test data published on how much better cornering is with TVD, like differences in time of a Slalom or Figure-8 test
with TVD on or off since the key advantage will be the acceleration after the apex? Instead, all I see is reviewers
saying "better" or "allows getting on the throttle faster"!!!
I my test drive there was no change to test the difference since the option was not on the car I got to drive.
I met a pro drive that works for Lexus (at a car show test drive in Phoenix) that tested with the TVD option and he told me for a "daily driver" I would not notice the difference even if driving hard on a road trip in the mountains. He said only on the track where your at the slip angle limit and pushing very hard would it pay off with a noticeable ROI. He felt that the sport driving in the mountains that I do, the TVD would only provide an noticeable advantage if I was at the very edge of the traction limit and it would pretty dangerous even for me as a very good Simracer and periodic tracker. Why did he say this too me, maybe due to the lack of mountain corner run outs, cliffs and grader ditches that one is exposed to as a non pro driver. :-) Clearly he would only push it to have an effect on a track vs on a highway road trip. If I do track it now and then I would like to have the TVD if it really makes a big difference.
Is there any test data published on how much better cornering is with TVD, like differences in time of a Slalom or Figure-8 test
with TVD on or off since the key advantage will be the acceleration after the apex? Instead, all I see is reviewers
saying "better" or "allows getting on the throttle faster"!!!
I my test drive there was no change to test the difference since the option was not on the car I got to drive.
I met a pro drive that works for Lexus (at a car show test drive in Phoenix) that tested with the TVD option and he told me for a "daily driver" I would not notice the difference even if driving hard on a road trip in the mountains. He said only on the track where your at the slip angle limit and pushing very hard would it pay off with a noticeable ROI. He felt that the sport driving in the mountains that I do, the TVD would only provide an noticeable advantage if I was at the very edge of the traction limit and it would pretty dangerous even for me as a very good Simracer and periodic tracker. Why did he say this too me, maybe due to the lack of mountain corner run outs, cliffs and grader ditches that one is exposed to as a non pro driver. :-) Clearly he would only push it to have an effect on a track vs on a highway road trip. If I do track it now and then I would like to have the TVD if it really makes a big difference.
12-23-14, 03:29 PM
#3
I purchased it for the moments when the ramps are clear and bending hard and the drives on the country roads that snake through central PA.
I am considering autocross, but participation will hinge on my spare time. Thus far I have worked the first two days of my vacation, so the probability of finding the time during the year is questionable.
I am also purchasing it out of sheer desire...not a bad thing.
12-23-14, 05:04 PM
#4
Until some testing gets done with both cars at the same track, it will be hard to know what the difference will be. Im sure Lexus has done has tested both cars at the same time but have not released any info yet that I know of.
Just be careful on your bending ramps and country roads, those are not closed tracks
Just be careful on your bending ramps and country roads, those are not closed tracks
I'll let you know.
I purchased it for the moments when the ramps are clear and bending hard and the drives on the country roads that snake through central PA.
I am considering autocross, but participation will hinge on my spare time. Thus far I have worked the first two days of my vacation, so the probability of finding the time during the year is questionable.
I am also purchasing it out of sheer desire...not a bad thing.
I purchased it for the moments when the ramps are clear and bending hard and the drives on the country roads that snake through central PA.
I am considering autocross, but participation will hinge on my spare time. Thus far I have worked the first two days of my vacation, so the probability of finding the time during the year is questionable.
I am also purchasing it out of sheer desire...not a bad thing.
12-24-14, 07:00 AM
#5
You'll very likely have to take a TVD equipped RC-F out on a test drive to verify its impact on daily driving capabilities.
Of three available TVD settings, Slalom mode is supposed to be the most aggressive torque vectoring option with greater emphasis on low-speed agility over high-speed stability (ie Track mode). I'd imagine that this would be the most enjoyable/noticeable mode to use while daily driving.
Of three available TVD settings, Slalom mode is supposed to be the most aggressive torque vectoring option with greater emphasis on low-speed agility over high-speed stability (ie Track mode). I'd imagine that this would be the most enjoyable/noticeable mode to use while daily driving.
12-24-14, 10:32 AM
#6
You'll very likely have to take a TVD equipped RC-F out on a test drive to verify its impact on daily driving capabilities.
Of three available TVD settings, Slalom mode is supposed to be the most aggressive torque vectoring option with greater emphasis on low-speed agility over high-speed stability (ie Track mode). I'd imagine that this would be the most enjoyable/noticeable mode to use while daily driving.
Of three available TVD settings, Slalom mode is supposed to be the most aggressive torque vectoring option with greater emphasis on low-speed agility over high-speed stability (ie Track mode). I'd imagine that this would be the most enjoyable/noticeable mode to use while daily driving.
12-24-14, 02:09 PM
#7
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I wish you had your new car already and could do the test to help me decide on the PE option.
Bye the way, do you have a ETA yet? One dealer keeps telling me he will not do a special order
a RC-F for me with PE until 2015.
Bye the way, do you have a ETA yet? One dealer keeps telling me he will not do a special order
a RC-F for me with PE until 2015.
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12-25-14, 05:46 AM
#8
I drove the non-TVD and it corners like a champ, so if you need to move on a car now, I would not hesitate. If you want the carbon and TVD, see if your rep can get you into the queue on January 2nd.
12-26-14, 05:36 AM
#9
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I was recently told that the car will arrive in early March, but my order was pushed through to corp many months ago. It will be the first carbon TVD delivered in the northeastern US, so I am told.
I drove the non-TVD and it corners like a champ, so if you need to move on a car now, I would not hesitate. If you want the carbon and TVD, see if your rep can get you into the queue on January 2nd.
I drove the non-TVD and it corners like a champ, so if you need to move on a car now, I would not hesitate. If you want the carbon and TVD, see if your rep can get you into the queue on January 2nd.
12-28-14, 05:35 PM
#10
TVD is awesome, I felt it immediately on my first turn out of the dealership parking lot. I drove it down some tight twists and turns and when you take corners and give the car gas, it feels as if it's a mid engine car, the car is so stable and telepathic through turns. I would order an RC-F with it, you won't regret it.
12-28-14, 07:49 PM
#11
Pole Position
Thread Starter
TVD is awesome, I felt it immediately on my first turn out of the dealership parking lot. I drove it down some tight twists and turns and when you take corners and give the car gas, it feels as if it's a mid engine car, the car is so stable and telepathic through turns. I would order an RC-F with it, you won't regret it.
Got some pics of the TDV from a sales person that was at the Running of the Bulls.
Last edited by rjmalm; 12-28-14 at 08:19 PM. Reason: added pics
12-29-14, 06:42 AM
#12
Wow, looks like a complicated piece of equipment, thanks for the pics
12-29-14, 07:14 AM
#13
The Torque Vectoring Differential used on the RC-F is supplied by GKN Driveline. You can see the same Electronic Torque Vectoring (ETV) module on its website: http://www.gkn.com/driveline/our-sol...vectoring.aspx
Below is an excerpt from a recent article by Drivelinenews.com on the Lexus TVD:
http://drivelinenews.com/axle-insigh...-for-lexus-v8/
Below is an excerpt from a recent article by Drivelinenews.com on the Lexus TVD:
While important innovations are also to be found in the RC F’s eight-speed sports-oriented planetary automatic transmission, it is in the rear axle that Lexus claims to be introducing a world first. This model, says the company, is the first ever to feature a Torque Vectoring Differential (TVD) in combination with a front engine, rear-wheel drive layout. In particular, says Lexus, this differential is unique in that it employs the principle of active torque transfer, achieved through precisely-controlled multi-plate clutches, to vector the torque to the required wheel. Simpler systems on other RWD vehicles employ the ABS system to momentarily brake one wheel, effectively transferring the torque across the axle through the differential.
Lexus has not yet released full technical details or cutaway views of the new TVD unit. However, from the description available so far, it would appear similar in its function to the GKN- and ZF-developed torque vectoring differential launched on the all-wheel drive BMW X6 sports SUV as long ago as 2008, though this does appear to differ from the M Differential fitted to the rear-drive M3 (and M4). The GKN unit uses multi-plate clutches and planetary gear sets on either side of the differential to superimpose an overspeed on the individual wheel in question. This avoids the performance sacrifice of more basic systems, which brake one wheel and modulate engine power in order to maintain traction and adjust the vehicle’s trajectory.
“The system has been designed to make best use of the vehicle’s yaw moment when turning,” says Lexus, “giving the feeling that the direction of travel and the direction of the vehicle are perfectly aligned.” It enables the best possible torque transfer to be generated regardless of how great or small the engine torque is, creating a yaw moment around the car’s center of gravity.
The TVD has three distinct switchable operating modes, selectable independently from the mode chosen for the transmission. The default standard mode is claimed to provide the ideal balance of agility and stability, whereas “Slalom” puts the emphasis on quick steering response and “Track” prioritizes stability for high-speed racetrack driving. Linked to the TVD drive unit is a dedicated TVD ECU responsible for calculating the torque inputs required and interfacing with the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) to control the vehicle’s overall dynamic behavior.
Lexus has not yet released full technical details or cutaway views of the new TVD unit. However, from the description available so far, it would appear similar in its function to the GKN- and ZF-developed torque vectoring differential launched on the all-wheel drive BMW X6 sports SUV as long ago as 2008, though this does appear to differ from the M Differential fitted to the rear-drive M3 (and M4). The GKN unit uses multi-plate clutches and planetary gear sets on either side of the differential to superimpose an overspeed on the individual wheel in question. This avoids the performance sacrifice of more basic systems, which brake one wheel and modulate engine power in order to maintain traction and adjust the vehicle’s trajectory.
“The system has been designed to make best use of the vehicle’s yaw moment when turning,” says Lexus, “giving the feeling that the direction of travel and the direction of the vehicle are perfectly aligned.” It enables the best possible torque transfer to be generated regardless of how great or small the engine torque is, creating a yaw moment around the car’s center of gravity.
The TVD has three distinct switchable operating modes, selectable independently from the mode chosen for the transmission. The default standard mode is claimed to provide the ideal balance of agility and stability, whereas “Slalom” puts the emphasis on quick steering response and “Track” prioritizes stability for high-speed racetrack driving. Linked to the TVD drive unit is a dedicated TVD ECU responsible for calculating the torque inputs required and interfacing with the Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) to control the vehicle’s overall dynamic behavior.
12-29-14, 10:45 AM
#14
I have driven both. I ended up with the TVD since it gives noticeably more precise driving dynamics (especially around turns) and is an added safety feature imo as well.
If I was turning the vehicle into a dedicated drift car, then I would not get TVD.
If I was turning the vehicle into a dedicated drift car, then I would not get TVD.