RC F vs M4
09-10-14, 07:38 PM
#46
The engine is perfect. Much more responsive and sonorous than the boring, bland and awful sounding twin turbo 6 in the M4, which has been criticized for lack of character. When the hardcore bimmer fans call it "lawnmower", you know there is an issue with it.
RC-F makes big horsepower and revs up to 7300 rpm. The only issue that is being talked about is the 400 lbs extra weight.
RC-F makes big horsepower and revs up to 7300 rpm. The only issue that is being talked about is the 400 lbs extra weight.
Last edited by Gymkata; 09-10-14 at 08:10 PM.
09-13-14, 12:30 AM
#47
Lexus Test Driver
Even with a major tune like juice box 4, it pulled only a 12.2 seconds. The E92 M3 modifications almost do nothing and it lost by only a few tenths (yeah, it was M-DCT, but still the JB4 increases the boost by a big margin). It is a basic bolt ons against a heavily tuned car. Not very impressed at all considering the substantial increase in power from mods.
p.s. The E92 M3 sounds godly!!!
Pretty much everything you've stated is absolutely false. Don't let the 425 HP fool you, it's becoming well known that this number is underrated by BMW. I just saw a dyno yesterday (sheets and video) of a bone stock M4 putting down roughly 415 whp and 415 wtq and an amazing torque curve, all while weighing less than 3500 lbs. Do the math. Given real world data (reputable mag times, drag slips, vbox), the M4 is faster in a strait line and track than all of the cars you mentioned. Yes, faster in a strait line than C63. Show me data to prove otherwise, I have plenty.
3500 lbs? The BMW marketing is working great for BMW fans. Because, it is well over 100 lbs heavier than what you claim. I know it is still lighter than RC-F, but still far from the 3300 lbs claim of BMW. Look at the MotorTrend review and Johnny Libermann said they weighed the M4 at 3604 lbs. BTW, the stock torque curve is in free fall after 6000 rpm. As M4's biggest fan Sutcliffe even said, the M4 S55 engine cannot even come close to the RC-F V8 in terms of throttle response and sound. If I wanted a turbo inline-6 BMW, I would much rather get a 335i and tune it with suspension mods and still save enough to pay for the inconvenience and cost of reliability issues such as, HPFP, overheating etc.
No, you've got it wrong. The top end on the M3/M4 is incredibly healthy and will walk on the RC-F. Show me a stock RC-F trapping at >= 120 MPH
Which BMW forums did you come from? This is a serious question out of curiosity. I am not being pedantic (Of course, it is more than obvious so please don't tell me you are not).
Where is a stock M4 trapping at more than 120 mph? Did you mean the car with a juice box 4 tune (essentially adding a lot more boost increasing power to around 470 wheel HP). It is very far from stock. Why are you comparing a stock RC-F against a heavily modified M4? Then there is the living with the limp mode, overheating and HPFP issues juice box tunes are notorious for causing to the turbo inline 6 BMW engines? Should I post all of the threads from bimmer forums?
Look at this, some stock M-DCT M3 trapped at a very low 113 mph. So much for the usual "underrating" propaganda by Bimmer forums.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/features...group-a-bmw-m3
And here is the S55 dyno chart. The torque curve is plummeting hard after 6000 rpm. By all accounts, it is a very unexciting engine to rev past 6000 rpm especially with that lawnmower sound. There was ZERO reason for BMW to put a 7000+ rpm redline on it when it did not need anything more than 6400 rpm redline since those tiny little turbos are long checked out and out of puff by 7000 rpm.
p.s. The E92 M3 sounds godly!!!
Pretty much everything you've stated is absolutely false. Don't let the 425 HP fool you, it's becoming well known that this number is underrated by BMW. I just saw a dyno yesterday (sheets and video) of a bone stock M4 putting down roughly 415 whp and 415 wtq and an amazing torque curve, all while weighing less than 3500 lbs. Do the math. Given real world data (reputable mag times, drag slips, vbox), the M4 is faster in a strait line and track than all of the cars you mentioned. Yes, faster in a strait line than C63. Show me data to prove otherwise, I have plenty.No, you've got it wrong. The top end on the M3/M4 is incredibly healthy and will walk on the RC-F. Show me a stock RC-F trapping at >= 120 MPH
Where is a stock M4 trapping at more than 120 mph? Did you mean the car with a juice box 4 tune (essentially adding a lot more boost increasing power to around 470 wheel HP). It is very far from stock. Why are you comparing a stock RC-F against a heavily modified M4? Then there is the living with the limp mode, overheating and HPFP issues juice box tunes are notorious for causing to the turbo inline 6 BMW engines? Should I post all of the threads from bimmer forums?
Look at this, some stock M-DCT M3 trapped at a very low 113 mph. So much for the usual "underrating" propaganda by Bimmer forums.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/features...group-a-bmw-m3
And here is the S55 dyno chart. The torque curve is plummeting hard after 6000 rpm. By all accounts, it is a very unexciting engine to rev past 6000 rpm especially with that lawnmower sound. There was ZERO reason for BMW to put a 7000+ rpm redline on it when it did not need anything more than 6400 rpm redline since those tiny little turbos are long checked out and out of puff by 7000 rpm.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 09-13-14 at 02:00 PM.
09-13-14, 02:13 AM
#48
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The M4 F82 is faster, and that how it should, but it does not blow away the M3 E92. If to be objective, both M4 and RC F did the same technological leap forward compared to their predecessors. And why compare these to new cars with old RS4/RS5 and old C 63 AMG? The new one is just around the corner (revealed this month) and is the biggest threat to both M4 and RC F. It comes with V8 Biturbo and AWD. No chance against that one. But does it make it the best car? No. So it is not only about numbers.
09-13-14, 03:16 AM
#49
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09-13-14, 06:04 AM
#50
Pretty much everything you've stated is absolutely false. Don't let the 425 HP fool you, it's becoming well known that this number is underrated by BMW. I just saw a dyno yesterday (sheets and video) of a bone stock M4 putting down roughly 415 whp and 415 wtq and an amazing torque curve, all while weighing less than 3500 lbs. Do the math. Given real world data (reputable mag times, drag slips, vbox), the M4 is faster in a strait line and track than all of the cars you mentioned. Yes, faster in a strait line than C63. Show me data to prove otherwise, I have plenty.No, you've got it wrong. The top end on the M3/M4 is incredibly healthy and will walk on the RC-F. Show me a stock RC-F trapping at >= 120 MPH
Yes M will be faster but I dont care. Engine is horrid in that car, lowsy power curve thats more suited to DD with a dying torque curve from 5500-7500, to save 30# they put a li-ion battery in there which has its own huge tradeoffs, bland styling that looks like every other 3/4. C&D tested the E90 M3 and F80 M3 both 6MT and they got the SAME 0-60 time and only .2 sec faster in 1/4 mile.
if I wanted a track machine Id get a Z06 and destroy all of these cars.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-13-14 at 06:13 AM.
09-13-14, 12:35 PM
#51
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Like the 335's, I will be interested to see just how much power those i6 twins can put out after some proper tinkering is done. Honestly when both cars are on the same track, both production cars, same tires, same elements, it will probably be a driver's race. I give the short technical tracks to the RC-F, and the long straight, high speed sweeping curved tracks to the M4.
09-13-14, 01:22 PM
#52
C63 will be very hard to beat for everyone, including M3/4. My friend has the new C class and it feels very well built in every way. And when it comes to engines, Mercedes knows that part very well, they can still make a turbo engine sing .AMG GT with the same engine configuration, it looks fast as hell to.
2015 Mercedes-AMG GT Sounds on the Nurburgring! - YouTube
2015 Mercedes-AMG GT Sounds on the Nurburgring! - YouTube
Lexus out my way just took in a C63 from someone who decided to go to the dark side.
. They have also taken in two 2014 GTRs from buyers who said they were disgusted with the cars and Nisaan.Until you are on the inside looking out, it is often difficult to experience what some of these buyers go through with these competing rides.
09-14-14, 09:06 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
I believe they put it that the use of the word Nurburgring equals ruining the car. Most of us drive cars on the road...not on the Nurburgring.
09-15-14, 12:40 AM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
Problem with RC-F is not only it has worse performance and standard features but it is also more EXPENSIVE than M4.
Here is my ideal M4 build:
BASE MSRP
$64,200
Yas Marina Blue Metallic$550
Black Extended Merino Leather$950
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim$0
Lighting Package$1,900
19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437 M with Mixed Perf. Tires$1,200
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic$2,900
Destination & Handling:$950
Total MSRP as Built $72,650
BTW all Carbon Fiber parts (Roof, Trunk, Driveshaft, Front STB, Interior Trim) are STANDARD.
NAV is STANDARD
Active M Differential Is STANDARD.
A comparable RC-F is over $80k
Here is my ideal M4 build:
BASE MSRP
$64,200
Yas Marina Blue Metallic$550
Black Extended Merino Leather$950
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim$0
Lighting Package$1,900
19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437 M with Mixed Perf. Tires$1,200
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic$2,900
Destination & Handling:$950
Total MSRP as Built $72,650
BTW all Carbon Fiber parts (Roof, Trunk, Driveshaft, Front STB, Interior Trim) are STANDARD.
NAV is STANDARD
Active M Differential Is STANDARD.
A comparable RC-F is over $80k
Last edited by RNM GS3; 09-15-14 at 12:47 AM.
09-15-14, 01:08 AM
#55
Pole Position
Problem with RC-F is not only it has worse performance and standard features but it is also more EXPENSIVE than M4.
Here is my ideal M4 build:
BASE MSRP
$64,200
Yas Marina Blue Metallic$550
Black Extended Merino Leather$950
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim$0
Lighting Package$1,900
19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437 M with Mixed Perf. Tires$1,200
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic$2,900
Destination & Handling:$950
Total MSRP as Built $72,650
BTW all Carbon Fiber parts (Roof, Trunk, Driveshaft, Front STB, Interior Trim) are STANDARD.
NAV is STANDARD
Active M Differential Is STANDARD.
A comparable RC-F is over $80k
Here is my ideal M4 build:
BASE MSRP
$64,200
Yas Marina Blue Metallic$550
Black Extended Merino Leather$950
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim$0
Lighting Package$1,900
19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437 M with Mixed Perf. Tires$1,200
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic$2,900
Destination & Handling:$950
Total MSRP as Built $72,650
BTW all Carbon Fiber parts (Roof, Trunk, Driveshaft, Front STB, Interior Trim) are STANDARD.
NAV is STANDARD
Active M Differential Is STANDARD.
A comparable RC-F is over $80k
So it's not a like for like comparison. One may spec out an RC-F and have it cheaper than the M4 as well. The RC-F has features that are standard that are either an option or not available on the M4.
09-15-14, 01:23 AM
#56
Lexus Test Driver
Are the 19" wheels on the M4 forged or cast alloy? RC-F wheels are all forged alloy, even standard wheels.Active M Differential is the equivalent of the standard Torsen LSD on the RC-F. The TVD on the RC-F is one grade higher than the Active M differential.
So it's not a like for like comparison. One may spec out an RC-F and have it cheaper than the M4 as well. The RC-F has features that are standard that are either an option or not available on the M4.
So it's not a like for like comparison. One may spec out an RC-F and have it cheaper than the M4 as well. The RC-F has features that are standard that are either an option or not available on the M4.
TVD = Active M Differential
Active M Differential means that a whole range of sensors have been built into the car that are able to identify the road conditions, calculate the optimum locking degree, and activate the lock accordingly by means of an electric motor. The central input variables are the torque, the individual rotational speeds of the wheels, the lateral acceleration and the driving speed. Then there is the steering angle and the yaw rate, plus a few additional factors.
What does RC-F have standard over the M4 except for the Auto trans?
Leather seats are not even standard......
Last edited by RNM GS3; 09-15-14 at 01:28 AM.
09-15-14, 05:27 AM
#57
Problem with RC-F is not only it has worse performance and standard features but it is also more EXPENSIVE than M4.
Here is my ideal M4 build:
BASE MSRP
$64,200
Yas Marina Blue Metallic$550
Black Extended Merino Leather$950
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim$0
Lighting Package$1,900
19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437 M with Mixed Perf. Tires$1,200
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic$2,900
Destination & Handling:$950
Total MSRP as Built $72,650
BTW all Carbon Fiber parts (Roof, Trunk, Driveshaft, Front STB, Interior Trim) are STANDARD.
NAV is STANDARD
Active M Differential Is STANDARD.
A comparable RC-F is over $80k
Here is my ideal M4 build:
BASE MSRP
$64,200
Yas Marina Blue Metallic$550
Black Extended Merino Leather$950
Carbon Fiber Interior Trim$0
Lighting Package$1,900
19" Black Light-Alloy Wheel Double-SpokeStyle 437 M with Mixed Perf. Tires$1,200
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic$2,900
Destination & Handling:$950
Total MSRP as Built $72,650
BTW all Carbon Fiber parts (Roof, Trunk, Driveshaft, Front STB, Interior Trim) are STANDARD.
NAV is STANDARD
Active M Differential Is STANDARD.
A comparable RC-F is over $80k
lets be real here no one is going to be swayed between either car for a few thousand. If someone wants an M4 they will get it, if someone wants an RCF they will get it. Funny thing is the M couldve been even less expensive if they offered a standard LSD. Not everyone wants the TVD, but BMW makes you buy it even if you'll never take it to the track. Theres a reason the C7 vette doesnt charge you for their TVD for those people who never go to the track.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-15-14 at 05:31 AM.
09-15-14, 06:49 AM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
No blind spot monitoring, upgraded audio, rear view camera, cooled seats, CF interior trim, keyless access that the RCF gets. If you want those throw in another $4000, $1900, $865 Harmon Kardon audio for those packages and the price comes out to be similar. More like a comparable M4 is $79k. RCF with premium, performance, navi/ML, $76k. The one you configured is slightly over a stripper build but you want to compare it to a near fully loaded RCF.
lets be real here no one is going to be swayed between either car for a few thousand. If someone wants an M4 they will get it, if someone wants an RCF they will get it. Funny thing is the M couldve been even less expensive if they offered a standard LSD. Not everyone wants the TVD, but BMW makes you buy it even if you'll never take it to the track. Theres a reason the C7 vette doesnt charge you for their TVD for those people who never go to the track.
lets be real here no one is going to be swayed between either car for a few thousand. If someone wants an M4 they will get it, if someone wants an RCF they will get it. Funny thing is the M couldve been even less expensive if they offered a standard LSD. Not everyone wants the TVD, but BMW makes you buy it even if you'll never take it to the track. Theres a reason the C7 vette doesnt charge you for their TVD for those people who never go to the track.
Over $8k in options is a stripper build???
CF interior trim is STANDARD
Now we gonna penalize BMW for making M Active Differential Standard - r u kidding me???
Even if you add ALL the options u listed, M4 will be 80k and still Cheaper than RCF with Carbon Performance Package!!!
09-15-14, 07:15 AM
#59
Not everyone wants a TVD or CF parts, hence why Vettes and RCFs have it in separate package. Base M couldve started maybe 60k if those were moved to an option package.
Base price 62400
Premium Package (PM)
• Heated/ventilated front seats with Driver seat memory
• Carbon fiber interior trim
• Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Cross-traffic Alert
• Premium LED L-shaped headlamps
• Intuitive Park Assist
$4400
Performance Package (requires PM) (PE)
• Carbon fiber roof
• Carbon rear wing
• Torque Vectoring Rear Differential
$5500
All Weather Package (CK)
• Headlamp washers
• Windshield-wiper deicer
• Heated steering wheel
$280
Optional Equipment:
HDD Navigation System - $1760
Navigation with Mark Levinson - $2840
Premium LED L-shaped headlamps - $1160
Moonroof - $1100
19” Wheel split 10-spoke - $850
19” Wheel Hand-polished 20-spoke - $1500
Intuitive Park Assist- $500
Pre-Collision System w/ Dynamic Radar Cruise Control - $500
Leather seats - $800
Infrared and Ultrasonic Blue Mica 2.0 Exterior Color - $595
Base $63,325 with destination
$4400 Premium
$5500 Performance
$2840 Navi/ML
$76025
Lot of these individual options dont apply since they are included in Premium, moonroof is excluded from Performance package because of the CF roof So even if I add the remaining options: 20 spoke wheels $1500, leather $800, Red/Blue 4 stage paints $595, PCS DRCC $500, All weather package $280 the highest I can get it is $78.9k. The prices are similar between the two cars for similar features. There is no significant price different between them. You didnt correctly compare similar features with a $72k M vs near fully loaded RCF. If the RCF could be had with the performance + Nav package without getting forced into premium it would be slightly cheaper than that 72k M. But no one is going to flip between these car for a couple grand.
Base price 62400
Premium Package (PM)
• Heated/ventilated front seats with Driver seat memory
• Carbon fiber interior trim
• Blind Spot Monitor with Rear Cross-traffic Alert
• Premium LED L-shaped headlamps
• Intuitive Park Assist
$4400
Performance Package (requires PM) (PE)
• Carbon fiber roof
• Carbon rear wing
• Torque Vectoring Rear Differential
$5500
All Weather Package (CK)
• Headlamp washers
• Windshield-wiper deicer
• Heated steering wheel
$280
Optional Equipment:
HDD Navigation System - $1760
Navigation with Mark Levinson - $2840
Premium LED L-shaped headlamps - $1160
Moonroof - $1100
19” Wheel split 10-spoke - $850
19” Wheel Hand-polished 20-spoke - $1500
Intuitive Park Assist- $500
Pre-Collision System w/ Dynamic Radar Cruise Control - $500
Leather seats - $800
Infrared and Ultrasonic Blue Mica 2.0 Exterior Color - $595
Base $63,325 with destination
$4400 Premium
$5500 Performance
$2840 Navi/ML
$76025
Lot of these individual options dont apply since they are included in Premium, moonroof is excluded from Performance package because of the CF roof So even if I add the remaining options: 20 spoke wheels $1500, leather $800, Red/Blue 4 stage paints $595, PCS DRCC $500, All weather package $280 the highest I can get it is $78.9k. The prices are similar between the two cars for similar features. There is no significant price different between them. You didnt correctly compare similar features with a $72k M vs near fully loaded RCF. If the RCF could be had with the performance + Nav package without getting forced into premium it would be slightly cheaper than that 72k M. But no one is going to flip between these car for a couple grand.
09-15-14, 07:57 AM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
On a BMW...yeah it is.
Your build M4 is far less equipped than a comparable $80k (read...FULLY loaded) RC-F. This has long been an issue comparing BMW models to Lexus models. People say they're cheaper or similarly priced to a comparable Lexus model, but when you really equip them similarly they're much more.
Just compare a base $62k RC-F to a base $63k or whatever M4...the M4 doesn't even have leather seats.
Your build M4 is far less equipped than a comparable $80k (read...FULLY loaded) RC-F. This has long been an issue comparing BMW models to Lexus models. People say they're cheaper or similarly priced to a comparable Lexus model, but when you really equip them similarly they're much more.
Just compare a base $62k RC-F to a base $63k or whatever M4...the M4 doesn't even have leather seats.
