how far can we push our IS350 engine while remaining N/A
09-15-16, 07:07 AM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
how far can we push our IS350 engine while remaining N/A
Disclaimer in the beginning:
1. I know this is not $$$ efficient
2. I know this may not give worthwhile performance increase
3. I am only after the experience of driving an engine like this
so...
weird thought at work this morning. Since our engine can already handle 7200rpm with a tune and no mod to the internal, how far would you think we can push the rpm (and may be power?) of this engine if low friction and high strength internal is used? Is it possible to push to 8500-9000 rpm with may be 320whp, combine with the usual intake and exhaust bolt ons?
another problem.... can the stock transmission handle that rpm?
1. I know this is not $$$ efficient
2. I know this may not give worthwhile performance increase
3. I am only after the experience of driving an engine like this
so...
weird thought at work this morning. Since our engine can already handle 7200rpm with a tune and no mod to the internal, how far would you think we can push the rpm (and may be power?) of this engine if low friction and high strength internal is used? Is it possible to push to 8500-9000 rpm with may be 320whp, combine with the usual intake and exhaust bolt ons?
another problem.... can the stock transmission handle that rpm?
09-15-16, 10:56 AM
#3
Based on what I researched...
I don't know if the RPM can be pushed more than 7200. You probably could tell the people tuning your ECU to raise the rev limit but whether or not its reliable, I have no idea. I myself am a tad worried raising the redline on an engine without changing any internals even though I hear that there are no reliability issues whatsoever. I don't think anyone makes internals for the 2GR FSE engine. However, I have seen pistons, connecting rods, valves, springs, camshafts, (even heads and blocks) for the Lotus Evora, which has the 2GR FE engine. Most of those aftermarket parts can apparently take 7500-8500 RPM (unless I'm mistaken) and can raise the compression ratio to 13.2 or lower it to 10.8 or 9.0. It (apparently) does add more HP than any mods for our IS350s (20-30 on pump gas, 40-50 on higher octane or E85) and of course the parts being lighter than stock means they could probably spin faster and reduce weight. Now I know that they are different units, with the 2GR FSE having direct injection and on the website it specifically says that these parts do not work on the 2GR FSE engine, but I myself was curious if the parts could be tweaked to work on the 2GR FSE engine, but I do not know. I would be very very interested in this if it were possible. I would much rather have a high revving (lighter) NA engine than a supercharged or turbo motor, but that is just me. Also no idea if the stock transmission can handle it, although there are people with superchargers who were able to run 350whp with no problems on the stock transmission, so I'd assume yes.
Before I ordered my IS350 (coming soon hopefully!!) I was thinking about getting an ES350 (which has the 2GR FE engine) and then just rebuilding the whole engine out of parts from the site below until I realized it would probably be very expensive for something that won't be much faster than a stock IS350, if faster at all. The 2GR FE motor does make less power. Rebuilding the 2GR FE motor out of aftermarket internals, it would rev to 8000+ which would be very cool though. 9000 is probably impossible no matter what you do unless you swap an LFA motor lol. Rebuilding an engine is probably possible on an ES350 (no idea if anyone on those forums did it) but as for the IS350, unlikely unless they make new parts that work on the FSE motor.
Keep in mind I am not an expert by any means whatsoever (if anything I probably have absolutely no idea what I'm saying), so I could be completely wrong on this, just sharing my thoughts.
Check it out for yourself and see if there is something I missed:
https://monkeywrenchracing.com/produ...ry/lotusevora/
I don't know if the RPM can be pushed more than 7200. You probably could tell the people tuning your ECU to raise the rev limit but whether or not its reliable, I have no idea. I myself am a tad worried raising the redline on an engine without changing any internals even though I hear that there are no reliability issues whatsoever. I don't think anyone makes internals for the 2GR FSE engine. However, I have seen pistons, connecting rods, valves, springs, camshafts, (even heads and blocks) for the Lotus Evora, which has the 2GR FE engine. Most of those aftermarket parts can apparently take 7500-8500 RPM (unless I'm mistaken) and can raise the compression ratio to 13.2 or lower it to 10.8 or 9.0. It (apparently) does add more HP than any mods for our IS350s (20-30 on pump gas, 40-50 on higher octane or E85) and of course the parts being lighter than stock means they could probably spin faster and reduce weight. Now I know that they are different units, with the 2GR FSE having direct injection and on the website it specifically says that these parts do not work on the 2GR FSE engine, but I myself was curious if the parts could be tweaked to work on the 2GR FSE engine, but I do not know. I would be very very interested in this if it were possible. I would much rather have a high revving (lighter) NA engine than a supercharged or turbo motor, but that is just me. Also no idea if the stock transmission can handle it, although there are people with superchargers who were able to run 350whp with no problems on the stock transmission, so I'd assume yes.
Before I ordered my IS350 (coming soon hopefully!!) I was thinking about getting an ES350 (which has the 2GR FE engine) and then just rebuilding the whole engine out of parts from the site below until I realized it would probably be very expensive for something that won't be much faster than a stock IS350, if faster at all. The 2GR FE motor does make less power. Rebuilding the 2GR FE motor out of aftermarket internals, it would rev to 8000+ which would be very cool though. 9000 is probably impossible no matter what you do unless you swap an LFA motor lol. Rebuilding an engine is probably possible on an ES350 (no idea if anyone on those forums did it) but as for the IS350, unlikely unless they make new parts that work on the FSE motor.
Keep in mind I am not an expert by any means whatsoever (if anything I probably have absolutely no idea what I'm saying), so I could be completely wrong on this, just sharing my thoughts.
Check it out for yourself and see if there is something I missed:
https://monkeywrenchracing.com/produ...ry/lotusevora/
09-15-16, 12:19 PM
#4
Driver
Thread Starter
just read this on wiki on Toyota GR engine family
Does it mean that we can at least use stronger aftermarket valve and springs designed for 2GR-FE in our engine? Since our con rod is already forged, may be solving the weak link in valvetrain and push the rpm higher safely?
2GR-FE[edit]
2GR-FE engine in the 2008 Lexus RX 350The 2GR-FE is a 3.5 L (3456 cc) version for transverse FWD, 4WD, or AWD mounting.[1] Bore remains at 94 mm but stroke is reduced to 83 mm. Reported output varies depending on the vehicle application, but is approximately 268 hp (200 kW) to 296 hp (221 kW) at 6200 rpm with 245 lb·ft (332 N·m) to 260 lb·ft (353 N·m) of torque at 4700 rpm on 87 octane (R+M/2).[2] This version features Toyota's Dual VVT-i, variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust cams. The cams are driven using a timing chain.
Valves are driven by roller-follower rocker arms with low friction roller bearings, and a unique, concave cam lobe design to increase valve lift over the traditional shimless lifter type system of the 1GR-FE. This increases overall cylinder head height to accommodate the slightly taller roller rocker system. Moreover, the cylinder head is segmented into 3 parts: valve cover, camshaft sub-assembly housing, and cylinder head sub-assembly. As such, this valvetrain is used across all other GR engines with Dual VVT-i. Its service weight is 163 kg.
2GR-FE engine in the 2008 Lexus RX 350The 2GR-FE is a 3.5 L (3456 cc) version for transverse FWD, 4WD, or AWD mounting.[1] Bore remains at 94 mm but stroke is reduced to 83 mm. Reported output varies depending on the vehicle application, but is approximately 268 hp (200 kW) to 296 hp (221 kW) at 6200 rpm with 245 lb·ft (332 N·m) to 260 lb·ft (353 N·m) of torque at 4700 rpm on 87 octane (R+M/2).[2] This version features Toyota's Dual VVT-i, variable valve timing on both the intake and exhaust cams. The cams are driven using a timing chain.Valves are driven by roller-follower rocker arms with low friction roller bearings, and a unique, concave cam lobe design to increase valve lift over the traditional shimless lifter type system of the 1GR-FE. This increases overall cylinder head height to accommodate the slightly taller roller rocker system. Moreover, the cylinder head is segmented into 3 parts: valve cover, camshaft sub-assembly housing, and cylinder head sub-assembly. As such, this valvetrain is used across all other GR engines with Dual VVT-i. Its service weight is 163 kg.
09-15-16, 02:13 PM
#5
Maybe. Part of me thinks its far more complicated than that, otherwise a lot of people would have done it already. But I'd be more interested in the other parts (cams, pistons) which add a significant amount of power in addition to higher revs. That would be absolutely best case scenario if someone could make all the FE aftermarket parts compatible with the FSE engine. I'll try and contact a tuner shop close to me and see if they can do this.
09-15-16, 05:46 PM
#6
Though you can move the vehicle's powerband with a tune; in its current state from the factory, any rev limit higher than 7200 you would probably start losing power quick. I don't see the need for it.
After adding a custom cold air intake, PPE catless headers, straight-pipe midpipes, a high-flow axle-back exhaust, and then tuning it all for max power; what is the most one could expect? Starting with a base whp of 270 that I took from various dyno sheets and dyno #s taken from various different vids online after mods were added, looks like a good 16whp just from the PPE catless headers and on average another 15-19whp depending on the intake, midpipe, and exhaust chosen. So taking a low figure of 300 even with all these mods BEFORE a tune, I could see a dyno figure in perfect conditions around 310-315whp N/A. I've personally invested in one overlooked possible power-adder...the coil packs. I've upgraded to Accel units; who knows if these things truly help, as I added them along with my PPE headers. But any possible thing to help I'm all about.
The trans doesn't care about the rpm; it's torque that will kill the converter/trans clutch packs.
After adding a custom cold air intake, PPE catless headers, straight-pipe midpipes, a high-flow axle-back exhaust, and then tuning it all for max power; what is the most one could expect? Starting with a base whp of 270 that I took from various dyno sheets and dyno #s taken from various different vids online after mods were added, looks like a good 16whp just from the PPE catless headers and on average another 15-19whp depending on the intake, midpipe, and exhaust chosen. So taking a low figure of 300 even with all these mods BEFORE a tune, I could see a dyno figure in perfect conditions around 310-315whp N/A. I've personally invested in one overlooked possible power-adder...the coil packs. I've upgraded to Accel units; who knows if these things truly help, as I added them along with my PPE headers. But any possible thing to help I'm all about.
The trans doesn't care about the rpm; it's torque that will kill the converter/trans clutch packs.
09-18-16, 08:40 AM
#7
Driver
Thread Starter
so googled a bit more and here is what I found
1. someone has done a 4L 2FR-FSE build http://www.turbofast.com.au/4L_2GR-FSE_Engine.html
and then it is turbocharged and put in a GT86 with over 500HP http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html
2. looking an info from this website, it seems 2GR-FSE and 2GR-FE have a high chance of sharing a common valve train, as valve timing and valve size matches
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FSE-engine.php
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FE-engine.php
1. someone has done a 4L 2FR-FSE build http://www.turbofast.com.au/4L_2GR-FSE_Engine.html
and then it is turbocharged and put in a GT86 with over 500HP http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html
2. looking an info from this website, it seems 2GR-FSE and 2GR-FE have a high chance of sharing a common valve train, as valve timing and valve size matches
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FSE-engine.php
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FE-engine.php
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09-19-16, 09:16 AM
#8
so googled a bit more and here is what I found
1. someone has done a 4L 2FR-FSE build http://www.turbofast.com.au/4L_2GR-FSE_Engine.html
and then it is turbocharged and put in a GT86 with over 500HP http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html
2. looking an info from this website, it seems 2GR-FSE and 2GR-FE have a high chance of sharing a common valve train, as valve timing and valve size matches
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FSE-engine.php
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FE-engine.php
1. someone has done a 4L 2FR-FSE build http://www.turbofast.com.au/4L_2GR-FSE_Engine.html
and then it is turbocharged and put in a GT86 with over 500HP http://www.turbofast.com.au/GT86.html
2. looking an info from this website, it seems 2GR-FSE and 2GR-FE have a high chance of sharing a common valve train, as valve timing and valve size matches
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FSE-engine.php
http://australiancar.reviews/2GR-FE-engine.php
10-02-16, 01:08 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
This was my exact thoughts before too. But since I've spent a ton of money on my is350 in just gonna finish my build for it and tune it soon as well. Hopefully that should be enough to tide me over until I get something faster.
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