Another take on the engine swap.
02-24-12, 12:42 PM
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Another take on the engine swap.
So I happened to find out about a total loss Infiniti G37 that was lost to a rear impact and sent to a junkyard. On a Whim I asked the owner how much he'd want for the vehicle and I got a crazy look and a figure of $3,000 which I'm certain he'd come down from.
Having asked I got to thinking about the Engine swap stigma of CEL's and dead luxury items in the is350. Most, if not all swaps have been attempts to marry another engine to the ECU of the is350 which is followed by the headache of thrown Egnine Lights and the entanglement of trying to redneck some sort of wiring system together to get the nav-system, heated seats, power seats etc. to work.
But the infiniti model at this yard has all those features down to the back up camera and missing only the seat cooling function. and the light up rings around the gauges, issues which are easy to fix. Additionall, the VQ37VHR engine handles boost MUCH better than the 2GR platform. After cruising the infiniti forums I found out its possible to achieve 500hp on stock internals with little to no worry about reliability beyond that which always comes with F/I'd cars.
So my idea is to attempt a swap out of the engine, drive train and ECU of the lexus for that of the infiniti. I've wanted to try an engine swap since I purchased the vehicle (It's pretty much the only performance mod I haven't done at this point) But I've been turned off for the amount of issues, headache and cost that's attributed to every attempt (at least here in the us).
What makes my idea different is that I wouldn't bother trying to marry a foreign power plant to the Lexus ECU. Instead For all intents and purposes my car would be an infinity beneath the hood. Since the Lexus and infinit share 90% of the luxury interior components I would think matching them to the appropriate ports on the infitniti ECU would be doabl, not terribly easy, but not unfeasible or overly expensive.
I have free access to a garage with all equipment needed to perform this task (gotta love the military) and a few friends who either have "amature" racing (The kind where you build your car) or mechanic backgrounds or both.
I'm in the process of gathering all the dimensions of the major drivetrain components as well as those of the is350. I'm also looking for records of those guys who tried 2JZ swaps and the modifications they had to do to the chassis of the is350 to overcome fitment issues.
There may be some issue with the resolution of the nav screen. as well as some working to make sure I'm able to access every function of the nav system. It's touch screen as well though so hopefully that will ease things. Things like the radio wont be exchanged. A radio is a radio is a radio to me and I've never used satellite radio (I'm an ipod junky) but If I end up doing this mod I'll certainly look into any issues that might come up with that for CL members who use the feature.
So what do you guys think? Possible? I'm trying to scoot well under the $17,000 price range of a TOMS S/C for the 2gr-fse as I plan on adding a S/C kit for the VQ which should bring up just over the 12k mark for the entire build if the car ends up being the full $3,000 (Which I doubt)
Also, to anyone reading this like its a solution to to our engine swap woes, it's not. Typically a new VQ37VHR goes for around six grand and a used one for three. That's without ECU, Transmission or the rest of the supporting parts that the engin will likely need from the G37.
Having asked I got to thinking about the Engine swap stigma of CEL's and dead luxury items in the is350. Most, if not all swaps have been attempts to marry another engine to the ECU of the is350 which is followed by the headache of thrown Egnine Lights and the entanglement of trying to redneck some sort of wiring system together to get the nav-system, heated seats, power seats etc. to work.
But the infiniti model at this yard has all those features down to the back up camera and missing only the seat cooling function. and the light up rings around the gauges, issues which are easy to fix. Additionall, the VQ37VHR engine handles boost MUCH better than the 2GR platform. After cruising the infiniti forums I found out its possible to achieve 500hp on stock internals with little to no worry about reliability beyond that which always comes with F/I'd cars.
So my idea is to attempt a swap out of the engine, drive train and ECU of the lexus for that of the infiniti. I've wanted to try an engine swap since I purchased the vehicle (It's pretty much the only performance mod I haven't done at this point) But I've been turned off for the amount of issues, headache and cost that's attributed to every attempt (at least here in the us).
What makes my idea different is that I wouldn't bother trying to marry a foreign power plant to the Lexus ECU. Instead For all intents and purposes my car would be an infinity beneath the hood. Since the Lexus and infinit share 90% of the luxury interior components I would think matching them to the appropriate ports on the infitniti ECU would be doabl, not terribly easy, but not unfeasible or overly expensive.
I have free access to a garage with all equipment needed to perform this task (gotta love the military) and a few friends who either have "amature" racing (The kind where you build your car) or mechanic backgrounds or both.
I'm in the process of gathering all the dimensions of the major drivetrain components as well as those of the is350. I'm also looking for records of those guys who tried 2JZ swaps and the modifications they had to do to the chassis of the is350 to overcome fitment issues.
There may be some issue with the resolution of the nav screen. as well as some working to make sure I'm able to access every function of the nav system. It's touch screen as well though so hopefully that will ease things. Things like the radio wont be exchanged. A radio is a radio is a radio to me and I've never used satellite radio (I'm an ipod junky) but If I end up doing this mod I'll certainly look into any issues that might come up with that for CL members who use the feature.
So what do you guys think? Possible? I'm trying to scoot well under the $17,000 price range of a TOMS S/C for the 2gr-fse as I plan on adding a S/C kit for the VQ which should bring up just over the 12k mark for the entire build if the car ends up being the full $3,000 (Which I doubt)
Also, to anyone reading this like its a solution to to our engine swap woes, it's not. Typically a new VQ37VHR goes for around six grand and a used one for three. That's without ECU, Transmission or the rest of the supporting parts that the engin will likely need from the G37.
02-25-12, 05:29 AM
#2
So I happened to find out about a total loss Infiniti G37 that was lost to a rear impact and sent to a junkyard. On a Whim I asked the owner how much he'd want for the vehicle and I got a crazy look and a figure of $3,000 which I'm certain he'd come down from.
Having asked I got to thinking about the Engine swap stigma of CEL's and dead luxury items in the is350. Most, if not all swaps have been attempts to marry another engine to the ECU of the is350 which is followed by the headache of thrown Egnine Lights and the entanglement of trying to redneck some sort of wiring system together to get the nav-system, heated seats, power seats etc. to work.
But the infiniti model at this yard has all those features down to the back up camera and missing only the seat cooling function. and the light up rings around the gauges, issues which are easy to fix. Additionall, the VQ37VHR engine handles boost MUCH better than the 2GR platform. After cruising the infiniti forums I found out its possible to achieve 500hp on stock internals with little to no worry about reliability beyond that which always comes with F/I'd cars.
So my idea is to attempt a swap out of the engine, drive train and ECU of the lexus for that of the infiniti. I've wanted to try an engine swap since I purchased the vehicle (It's pretty much the only performance mod I haven't done at this point) But I've been turned off for the amount of issues, headache and cost that's attributed to every attempt (at least here in the us).
What makes my idea different is that I wouldn't bother trying to marry a foreign power plant to the Lexus ECU. Instead For all intents and purposes my car would be an infinity beneath the hood. Since the Lexus and infinit share 90% of the luxury interior components I would think matching them to the appropriate ports on the infitniti ECU would be doabl, not terribly easy, but not unfeasible or overly expensive.
I have free access to a garage with all equipment needed to perform this task (gotta love the military) and a few friends who either have "amature" racing (The kind where you build your car) or mechanic backgrounds or both.
I'm in the process of gathering all the dimensions of the major drivetrain components as well as those of the is350. I'm also looking for records of those guys who tried 2JZ swaps and the modifications they had to do to the chassis of the is350 to overcome fitment issues.
There may be some issue with the resolution of the nav screen. as well as some working to make sure I'm able to access every function of the nav system. It's touch screen as well though so hopefully that will ease things. Things like the radio wont be exchanged. A radio is a radio is a radio to me and I've never used satellite radio (I'm an ipod junky) but If I end up doing this mod I'll certainly look into any issues that might come up with that for CL members who use the feature.
So what do you guys think? Possible? I'm trying to scoot well under the $17,000 price range of a TOMS S/C for the 2gr-fse as I plan on adding a S/C kit for the VQ which should bring up just over the 12k mark for the entire build if the car ends up being the full $3,000 (Which I doubt)
Also, to anyone reading this like its a solution to to our engine swap woes, it's not. Typically a new VQ37VHR goes for around six grand and a used one for three. That's without ECU, Transmission or the rest of the supporting parts that the engin will likely need from the G37.
Having asked I got to thinking about the Engine swap stigma of CEL's and dead luxury items in the is350. Most, if not all swaps have been attempts to marry another engine to the ECU of the is350 which is followed by the headache of thrown Egnine Lights and the entanglement of trying to redneck some sort of wiring system together to get the nav-system, heated seats, power seats etc. to work.
But the infiniti model at this yard has all those features down to the back up camera and missing only the seat cooling function. and the light up rings around the gauges, issues which are easy to fix. Additionall, the VQ37VHR engine handles boost MUCH better than the 2GR platform. After cruising the infiniti forums I found out its possible to achieve 500hp on stock internals with little to no worry about reliability beyond that which always comes with F/I'd cars.
So my idea is to attempt a swap out of the engine, drive train and ECU of the lexus for that of the infiniti. I've wanted to try an engine swap since I purchased the vehicle (It's pretty much the only performance mod I haven't done at this point) But I've been turned off for the amount of issues, headache and cost that's attributed to every attempt (at least here in the us).
What makes my idea different is that I wouldn't bother trying to marry a foreign power plant to the Lexus ECU. Instead For all intents and purposes my car would be an infinity beneath the hood. Since the Lexus and infinit share 90% of the luxury interior components I would think matching them to the appropriate ports on the infitniti ECU would be doabl, not terribly easy, but not unfeasible or overly expensive.
I have free access to a garage with all equipment needed to perform this task (gotta love the military) and a few friends who either have "amature" racing (The kind where you build your car) or mechanic backgrounds or both.
I'm in the process of gathering all the dimensions of the major drivetrain components as well as those of the is350. I'm also looking for records of those guys who tried 2JZ swaps and the modifications they had to do to the chassis of the is350 to overcome fitment issues.
There may be some issue with the resolution of the nav screen. as well as some working to make sure I'm able to access every function of the nav system. It's touch screen as well though so hopefully that will ease things. Things like the radio wont be exchanged. A radio is a radio is a radio to me and I've never used satellite radio (I'm an ipod junky) but If I end up doing this mod I'll certainly look into any issues that might come up with that for CL members who use the feature.
So what do you guys think? Possible? I'm trying to scoot well under the $17,000 price range of a TOMS S/C for the 2gr-fse as I plan on adding a S/C kit for the VQ which should bring up just over the 12k mark for the entire build if the car ends up being the full $3,000 (Which I doubt)
Also, to anyone reading this like its a solution to to our engine swap woes, it's not. Typically a new VQ37VHR goes for around six grand and a used one for three. That's without ECU, Transmission or the rest of the supporting parts that the engin will likely need from the G37.
For example, all the parts in the ISx50 that are hard to make talk to a different Lexus/Toyota ECU will be much, much, much, much harder to make talk to a non-lexus/toyota ECU.
And between different brands of vehicles they're often speaking, literally, different languages. (BEAN vs. CAN control for some items for example... or the fact that Infiniti says "Sensor X registering 3 volts mean Y".... and Lexus says "Sensor X registering 3 volts means Z").... or the fact that in some cases the two cars likely use entirely different methods of reading or controlling a given thing.
And that's ignoring the myriad features that aren't really the same between the cars... (the transmissions have a different # of gears, the Infiniti rev matches on paddle shifts, the Lexus had VDIM and Infiniti has no idea what that is,etc, etc...)
There's a lot more to it than that, but in short it'd be WAY WAY WAY easier to swap virtually any modern Lexus/Toyota powertrain in than an Infinti one....and that still wouldn't exactly be a plug and play operation.
This isn't to say it's impossible, but I'd again put it into the category of "Unless you know a lot about custom engine swaps, and you don't just based on your question, and you don't count your time as worth anything at all, and you have access to detailed wiring and computer details on both vehicles, then it'd likely be way cheaper to just trade in for an IS-F"
02-25-12, 10:11 AM
#3
To OP. If you're planning on ~$12k for the swap, why not get an IS-F? Is this one of those, "just to say you did it, say you have it" kind of things? If it is, i feel you, i want a supercharger for my is250, and we all know how unreasonable those are and how little they gain.
To Kurtz, just out of curiousity, is swapping the 250/350 engine/tranny with an IS-F's possible (by possible, i mean clean swap with all electronics working)? I know it is not a cost effective way to add power, i imagine an F's engine is pricey, but I dont recall anyone ever asking/attempting it. I am really more just wondering if swapping even between Lexus (IS) models is a headache as well.
To Kurtz, just out of curiousity, is swapping the 250/350 engine/tranny with an IS-F's possible (by possible, i mean clean swap with all electronics working)? I know it is not a cost effective way to add power, i imagine an F's engine is pricey, but I dont recall anyone ever asking/attempting it. I am really more just wondering if swapping even between Lexus (IS) models is a headache as well.
02-25-12, 06:12 PM
#4
To OP. If you're planning on ~$12k for the swap, why not get an IS-F? Is this one of those, "just to say you did it, say you have it" kind of things? If it is, i feel you, i want a supercharger for my is250, and we all know how unreasonable those are and how little they gain.
To Kurtz, just out of curiousity, is swapping the 250/350 engine/tranny with an IS-F's possible (by possible, i mean clean swap with all electronics working)? I know it is not a cost effective way to add power, i imagine an F's engine is pricey, but I dont recall anyone ever asking/attempting it. I am really more just wondering if swapping even between Lexus (IS) models is a headache as well.
To Kurtz, just out of curiousity, is swapping the 250/350 engine/tranny with an IS-F's possible (by possible, i mean clean swap with all electronics working)? I know it is not a cost effective way to add power, i imagine an F's engine is pricey, but I dont recall anyone ever asking/attempting it. I am really more just wondering if swapping even between Lexus (IS) models is a headache as well.
Electronically it might be possible, but you'd want to swap the dash as well (also not cheap) since you've got a few extra gears, some additional gauge info to display, etc... rear end gears will be different so might wanna swap that too...
Be pretty surprised if it's not cheaper to trade for an actual F though.
03-01-12, 07:33 AM
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For the amount of time and money in the effort to put a Nissan motor into the Lexus I would just tear down the stock isx50 motor, lower the compression and add a turbo with 7-8 psi. Use the aem piggy back engine management. That's what I'd do.
03-01-12, 07:38 AM
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Electrical would be a mess. The smart key goes thru the stock ecu I think. How would you interface that? Seems like you'd spend more doing the swap then building the stock motor.
IMO too much R&D just to get the engine to start. By then you'd have a fully built isx50 motor ready to go.
IMO too much R&D just to get the engine to start. By then you'd have a fully built isx50 motor ready to go.
03-01-12, 07:48 AM
#7
Plus, low compression pistons don't exist for the ISx50 AFAIK... you'd need em custom made, and they have to be a very specific shape to work with the DI system.... you'll also likely need to bump up the fuel system, as I think 8 psi is probably just beyond what the factory fuel system can handle even with a piggyback pushing more fuel through it.
I agree with you that even that would be easier than swapping a Nissan motor in, but I don't think either'd be worth it.
If you were gonna do all that to make it low compression you might as well just do all custom forged internals and aim for a really significant amount of boost... but then you have to worry about if the block will hold up to it, and the transmission probably won't....
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03-03-12, 05:04 AM
#8
This is actually one of the stupidest threads I have ever read. I understand the want of more power but this is an absurd way to go about it. The issue as I understand it is the the functioning of things like nav, cooled seats, etc. There are several intertwinings of ecus that the ISs have that make major power adders very hard to do. Why not do what HKS350 did and get the HKS supercharger and be done with it instead of tearing apart your car that will not end up the same once you are done with it.
03-03-12, 10:24 AM
#9
I can't even imagine this type of swap and the huge amount of $$ and time it would take to do this. I've done an engine swap on my older 95 Accord with an engine and ECU that was a direct swap. And that was somewhat of a chore....even when I was excited about doing it.
Like everyone says, this type of project is very complex. There are a whole lot of issues to deal with. It may be simple going from a Lexus-Toyota platform but to cross manufacturers would be not so easy. It's been done before (a Chevy small block in the RX7 for example) so if you want to do it, do it.
If you do untertake this project, I wish you luck. And maybe you can prove us wrong by doing it and telling us how simple it is.
Like everyone says, this type of project is very complex. There are a whole lot of issues to deal with. It may be simple going from a Lexus-Toyota platform but to cross manufacturers would be not so easy. It's been done before (a Chevy small block in the RX7 for example) so if you want to do it, do it.
If you do untertake this project, I wish you luck. And maybe you can prove us wrong by doing it and telling us how simple it is.
03-06-12, 01:07 AM
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The money isn't actually a huge deal. I just got the entire car or 950$ after the get found out how damaged it actually was.
Fortunately the car was semi-rear ended so all the parts I need are still intact.
As for the ecu/drive train marriage issues. Guys there won't be. All Lexus parts are coming out save the termini of the luxury items inside and a few other bits. There will be NO Lexus ecu, no lexus transmission and no Lexus engine components to worry about insofar as compatibility.
As for the cash deal, I have all the tools I Need and a garage at the auto skills center. I JUST helped my buddy swap out his f150 motor there. Albeit there was no transmission exchange but w/e.
The big issues are figuring out if I need to swap out all interior components such as power seat motors, nav screen, back up camera etc. But I shouldn't have to. Besides the actual sensors, everything else just sends and receives uncoded data so it should be as simple as a few wire splices.
The engine/drivetrain assembly of the g37 is def a but beefier than the is but not so much I couldn't get it in there and have room for f/I later down the line. Transmission housing is going to be touch and go and of course exhaust is going to have to be a custom job.
Again guys I'm
Not putting an infinit motor into a Lexus...more I'm putting a Lexus body and suspension onto an infinity.
Fortunately the car was semi-rear ended so all the parts I need are still intact.
As for the ecu/drive train marriage issues. Guys there won't be. All Lexus parts are coming out save the termini of the luxury items inside and a few other bits. There will be NO Lexus ecu, no lexus transmission and no Lexus engine components to worry about insofar as compatibility.
As for the cash deal, I have all the tools I Need and a garage at the auto skills center. I JUST helped my buddy swap out his f150 motor there. Albeit there was no transmission exchange but w/e.
The big issues are figuring out if I need to swap out all interior components such as power seat motors, nav screen, back up camera etc. But I shouldn't have to. Besides the actual sensors, everything else just sends and receives uncoded data so it should be as simple as a few wire splices.
The engine/drivetrain assembly of the g37 is def a but beefier than the is but not so much I couldn't get it in there and have room for f/I later down the line. Transmission housing is going to be touch and go and of course exhaust is going to have to be a custom job.
Again guys I'm
Not putting an infinit motor into a Lexus...more I'm putting a Lexus body and suspension onto an infinity.
03-06-12, 06:58 AM
#11
The money isn't actually a huge deal. I just got the entire car or 950$ after the get found out how damaged it actually was.
Fortunately the car was semi-rear ended so all the parts I need are still intact.
As for the ecu/drive train marriage issues. Guys there won't be. All Lexus parts are coming out save the termini of the luxury items inside and a few other bits. There will be NO Lexus ecu, no lexus transmission and no Lexus engine components to worry about insofar as compatibility. .
Fortunately the car was semi-rear ended so all the parts I need are still intact.
As for the ecu/drive train marriage issues. Guys there won't be. All Lexus parts are coming out save the termini of the luxury items inside and a few other bits. There will be NO Lexus ecu, no lexus transmission and no Lexus engine components to worry about insofar as compatibility. .
Then none of those luxury features will work you see.
Because they run off Lexus ECUs.
That's why there's so many ECUs in the car, and why cars with certain packages have different ECUs in em.
remove them all and nothing will work.
Hell, remove the stock radio and the air conditioning stops working.
The big issues are figuring out if I need to swap out all interior components such as power seat motors, nav screen, back up camera etc. But I shouldn't have to. Besides the actual sensors, everything else just sends and receives uncoded data so it should be as simple as a few wire splices.
All the lexus parts are not just sending straight electrical signals. If they were there's be a ton more engine swaps.
Mostly they're sending data over CAN and BEAN, to and through Lexus ECUs, which won't work with anything else.
So yes, you'd need to basically gut the car entirely down to the shell and move everything over from the Infiniti. Every sensor, every motor, every bit of electronics.
Don't forget to move the yaw and pitch sensors and everything else that goes into a modern VSC/TRAC system... though they're almost certainly calibrated for an Infiniti chassis so don't expect them to work quite right either.
Bear in mind, the one working engine swap we've ever seen using a non-same-generation-and-company engine (the 2JZ swap from Toyomo) was on a 250 that was a base model- it didn't have all the luxury options in it in the first place...no nav, no memory seats, no rain sensing wipers, no nothing... and even then he still has dash lights for the non-working TRAC and VSC systems that aren't ever going away.
And even that swap involved over 200 hours of custom wiring work to get even basic stuff working properly.
By a guy who does Toyota/lexus engine swaps for a living.
So....good luck to you.
Last edited by Kurtz; 03-06-12 at 07:26 AM.
03-07-12, 07:26 PM
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*sigh* to true. I'm not going to
Give up though. I have to get a lot more materials for this. Does anyone know where I can get wiring layouts for the is350? I've got them For the g37 but NOTHING is going to be in
The same place it seems. Ive pretty much downloaded every DIY that involves taking of parts of the car fom here and myis. But there's precious little on the actual layout of the electrical system.
Give up though. I have to get a lot more materials for this. Does anyone know where I can get wiring layouts for the is350? I've got them For the g37 but NOTHING is going to be in
The same place it seems. Ive pretty much downloaded every DIY that involves taking of parts of the car fom here and myis. But there's precious little on the actual layout of the electrical system.
03-08-12, 06:24 AM
#13
If you're actually going to attempt it anyway then you will need a subscription to TIS
https://techinfo.toyota.com/
I recommend you spend $15 on the 2 day pass... then spend the 2 days reading up and realizing how unlikely to work your plan is.
It'll save you the $385 additional a yearly subscription costs, because you're not gonna get the job done in the 1 month a $75 sub will give you.
(In theory 1 month might be long enough to download everything electrical, but I'd be surprised if you don't miss a few things you end up needing later)
https://techinfo.toyota.com/
I recommend you spend $15 on the 2 day pass... then spend the 2 days reading up and realizing how unlikely to work your plan is.
It'll save you the $385 additional a yearly subscription costs, because you're not gonna get the job done in the 1 month a $75 sub will give you.
(In theory 1 month might be long enough to download everything electrical, but I'd be surprised if you don't miss a few things you end up needing later)
03-08-12, 11:06 PM
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Dude thanks Kurtz this is awesome...like thanks a LOT. Im gonna pull as much as I can from This. Gonna try to start gutting the G soon. Problem Is you have to have the car registered on the fort before you can work on it at the auto skills center and I don't think they're going to bless off on a clearly totaled car haha.
Currently it's sitting outside my barracks and people
Keep asking me what happened to it and expressing sympathy lol.
Currently it's sitting outside my barracks and people
Keep asking me what happened to it and expressing sympathy lol.