Synthetic Oil - Change Interval
03-08-11, 11:28 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Synthetic Oil - Change Interval
As promised in my other thread about the random misfire I was getting, I want to start a rather provocative thread concerning the use of Synthetic Oil, Oil Change intervals, and Oil filters. Lets begin:
For starters I use Valvoline 100% Synthetic 10-30 since approx 35K miles.
Ive used either K&N or Similar High-end Oil filters, never Fram or others. Ever.
My car has 250K miles on it now. I recently change the VVTi OCV Valve because the electric solenoid failed. Prior to replacing it, I disassembled the valve, and made sure it was not plugged up and that the valve plunger moved freely, I tested the valve per Lexus procedure and it was the solenoid coil that failed. Ten OCV Filter was clean as a whistle, not a single lick of sludge or hardened oil particles.
I also replaced my Oil Pan Gasket, and both Valve Cover Gaskets 2 weeks ago when I was fixing the misfire problem.
The inside of the Oil pan was clean, with no sludge, no metal shavings, nothing other than semi-dirty oil as would be expected. The inside of the valve covers, the Heads, the Cam-Shafts and Valve lifters were all honey in color, cleaner than I can explain, not a single sign of wear on the cam lobes or lifters. Clean.
Now...for the part that Im am certain will have people all up in arms, telling me all my prior problems, non of which had anything to do with the Oil system, are caused by this one simple fact:
I have changed my Oil 5 times after switching to 100% Synthetic at 35,000 miles. I have changed my Oil filter every 6-8K miles. My car has 248K+ miles on it now (I call it 250K) About every 45-50K miles I actually change the oil, with 5-6 oil filters in between.
Yes, re-read that again: - 1st Synthetic switch plus 5 Oil changes in 215K miles, with only high-end Oil filters in between. It doesnt burn Oil, has as much power as it did way back when, passes all emissions, has no CEL codes and has ZERO, absolutely ZERO sludge in the lower and upper engine.
I did this with a car from 1994-2001, I ran that car to 260K miles, it was an american car, it still ran when I got rid of it, the only thing is the AC compressor went out, and living in AZ I wasnt gunna spend money to fix it. It also had no sludge and easily would roast the tires.
So...is it a fluke, or is the really important thing here that Oil filters are the really important component in maintaining oil quality? Also, Synthetic oil molecules are different than Petro Oil, they are all consistent in size, and smaller than Petrol...it was explained to me that Synthetic oil doesnt break down into petroleum by-products anywhere near as fast as Petrol Oil does...and that engines are basically a low-tech refinery.
So...comments please.
For starters I use Valvoline 100% Synthetic 10-30 since approx 35K miles.
Ive used either K&N or Similar High-end Oil filters, never Fram or others. Ever.
My car has 250K miles on it now. I recently change the VVTi OCV Valve because the electric solenoid failed. Prior to replacing it, I disassembled the valve, and made sure it was not plugged up and that the valve plunger moved freely, I tested the valve per Lexus procedure and it was the solenoid coil that failed. Ten OCV Filter was clean as a whistle, not a single lick of sludge or hardened oil particles.
I also replaced my Oil Pan Gasket, and both Valve Cover Gaskets 2 weeks ago when I was fixing the misfire problem.
The inside of the Oil pan was clean, with no sludge, no metal shavings, nothing other than semi-dirty oil as would be expected. The inside of the valve covers, the Heads, the Cam-Shafts and Valve lifters were all honey in color, cleaner than I can explain, not a single sign of wear on the cam lobes or lifters. Clean.
Now...for the part that Im am certain will have people all up in arms, telling me all my prior problems, non of which had anything to do with the Oil system, are caused by this one simple fact:
I have changed my Oil 5 times after switching to 100% Synthetic at 35,000 miles. I have changed my Oil filter every 6-8K miles. My car has 248K+ miles on it now (I call it 250K) About every 45-50K miles I actually change the oil, with 5-6 oil filters in between.
Yes, re-read that again: - 1st Synthetic switch plus 5 Oil changes in 215K miles, with only high-end Oil filters in between. It doesnt burn Oil, has as much power as it did way back when, passes all emissions, has no CEL codes and has ZERO, absolutely ZERO sludge in the lower and upper engine.
I did this with a car from 1994-2001, I ran that car to 260K miles, it was an american car, it still ran when I got rid of it, the only thing is the AC compressor went out, and living in AZ I wasnt gunna spend money to fix it. It also had no sludge and easily would roast the tires.
So...is it a fluke, or is the really important thing here that Oil filters are the really important component in maintaining oil quality? Also, Synthetic oil molecules are different than Petro Oil, they are all consistent in size, and smaller than Petrol...it was explained to me that Synthetic oil doesnt break down into petroleum by-products anywhere near as fast as Petrol Oil does...and that engines are basically a low-tech refinery.
So...comments please.
03-08-11, 11:31 AM
#2
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I should mention that the 5th Oil change was 2 weeks ago, at 248K miles...meaning from 35K to 248K there were 4 different full sets of oil actually used...Thats 53K miles per 5-qts of oil. I think in each time I added 1-1/2 to 2 qts between changes. or about 1/8th-1/6th of a qt per 5000 miles...far within the acceptable range of 1/4-1/2 qt per 3000-5000 recommended interval.
Let the bashing begin.
Let the bashing begin.
03-08-11, 04:57 PM
#4
Mobile 1 10-30 used here every 5k all 5qts changed. 50k miles per oil change in my opinion is well beyound the lifetime of the viscosity retention ability. Also I can see major deposits to develope with that kind of oil change interval. I would say by the sounds of it your butterfly breaking off is the least I would worry about in your engine. I would say run a flush through it but then again you might not want to disturb any deposits that may or maynot have built up. Thats one hell of a testimonial for the 2j though (or if some american brand that engine then). I would never bash you either bro but thats some hellacious risk taking if you ask me. Gratz on the oil longevity.
03-08-11, 06:53 PM
#5
Mobile 1 10-30 used here every 5k all 5qts changed. 50k miles per oil change in my opinion is well beyound the lifetime of the viscosity retention ability. Also I can see major deposits to develope with that kind of oil change interval. I would say by the sounds of it your butterfly breaking off is the least I would worry about in your engine. I would say run a flush through it but then again you might not want to disturb any deposits that may or maynot have built up. Thats one hell of a testimonial for the 2j though (or if some american brand that engine then). I would never bash you either bro but thats some hellacious risk taking if you ask me. Gratz on the oil longevity.
03-09-11, 07:39 AM
#6
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Yes, we are all trained and taught that oil cant hold its viscosity much after 5-10K...but here I am, with a perfectly clean engine, and I change the oil every 50K, changing the filter every 5K and adding that 1 Qt.
Why do I need to worry about my engine? Its got 250K miles on it and still breaks traction on the rear wheels...If it goes to 350K do I still need to worry about it?
I ran a flush thru the system about 5K miles ago...no sludge came out.
Im telling ya'all....I have the "proof in the pudding" on this topic...and I have a few more tid-biuts of info to shock ya'all with after going thru a few more posts.
Why do I need to worry about my engine? Its got 250K miles on it and still breaks traction on the rear wheels...If it goes to 350K do I still need to worry about it?
I ran a flush thru the system about 5K miles ago...no sludge came out.
Im telling ya'all....I have the "proof in the pudding" on this topic...and I have a few more tid-biuts of info to shock ya'all with after going thru a few more posts.
Mobile 1 10-30 used here every 5k all 5qts changed. 50k miles per oil change in my opinion is well beyound the lifetime of the viscosity retention ability. Also I can see major deposits to develope with that kind of oil change interval. I would say by the sounds of it your butterfly breaking off is the least I would worry about in your engine. I would say run a flush through it but then again you might not want to disturb any deposits that may or maynot have built up. Thats one hell of a testimonial for the 2j though (or if some american brand that engine then). I would never bash you either bro but thats some hellacious risk taking if you ask me. Gratz on the oil longevity.
Last edited by az-dave; 08-29-12 at 09:21 AM.
03-09-11, 07:44 AM
#7
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Actually the higher the number, the worse Oil performs in cold weather. Im in AZ, hot! climate, so a tad thicker oil is better IMO since I drive 80+ MPH in literally 110-120-deg heat.
Also, Ive been building and re-building engines since 1988, Ive never been a believer in super thin oil, nor super thick, I come from the school that a bit higher oil pressure is better than a flood of oil. There is debate about this, which could be a diff thread.
After a 100K miles the bearings are broken in, and the thicker oil tends to cushion better IMO.
I also believe the harder you drive the car, the more cushion the oil needs to provide, and 5W oils place doubt in my mind on Hot, Hard driving.
Also, Ive been building and re-building engines since 1988, Ive never been a believer in super thin oil, nor super thick, I come from the school that a bit higher oil pressure is better than a flood of oil. There is debate about this, which could be a diff thread.
After a 100K miles the bearings are broken in, and the thicker oil tends to cushion better IMO.
I also believe the harder you drive the car, the more cushion the oil needs to provide, and 5W oils place doubt in my mind on Hot, Hard driving.
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03-09-11, 08:14 AM
#8
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Entry: Not taking it as Bashing bro, Im expecting much much worse...I know what Ive done sounds contrary to orthodoxed maintenance standards, but I started doing this a long time ago - in 1992. The First car got totaled by my ex-wife, it had 170K, and 100% Syn every 35-40K, no sludge, no probs.
Then I did it on my 88 Beretta 2.8L V6, that car was still running strong in 2001 with 265K miles, the AC comp went out, and I donated it, I redid the valve covers on that car at about 220K miles and it was clean inside, just like my GS300, no sludge, no knocking, no burning of oil, and no CEL lights.
Now...as promised, I will up the stakes a few more notches - I also have 2 other vehicles that I do this with, making the total 6 in all since 1992. My Wife's 2003 RX300 with a little over 150K miles (got it at 28K) and its also A-Okay.
It all started because a 50 yr old master-mechanic I knew in Oregon in the early 90's told me about this, he told me he never changed the syn oil, and only did Filter plus add 1-qt...19 yrs later, I havnt proven the technique wrong, however I wuss-out at 50K miles and actually do a full change.
High-Quality Oil Filter and 100% Synthetic is Critical...try this using Fram, or partial-Synthetic, or regular Oil, and I can guarantee you will have heavy sludge as well as carbonized oil everywhere in your engine and it will eventually seize.
Most people dont keep a car past 150K...and Ive done this and kept all of them well over 150K, 2 of them 250K+, so if it works past 250K...with none of the tell-tale signs of poor lubricating or sludge, what could one worry about? Ive seen a lot of engines that run bad at 125K miles even with their 3K-5K oil changes...
Then I did it on my 88 Beretta 2.8L V6, that car was still running strong in 2001 with 265K miles, the AC comp went out, and I donated it, I redid the valve covers on that car at about 220K miles and it was clean inside, just like my GS300, no sludge, no knocking, no burning of oil, and no CEL lights.
Now...as promised, I will up the stakes a few more notches - I also have 2 other vehicles that I do this with, making the total 6 in all since 1992. My Wife's 2003 RX300 with a little over 150K miles (got it at 28K) and its also A-Okay.
It all started because a 50 yr old master-mechanic I knew in Oregon in the early 90's told me about this, he told me he never changed the syn oil, and only did Filter plus add 1-qt...19 yrs later, I havnt proven the technique wrong, however I wuss-out at 50K miles and actually do a full change.
High-Quality Oil Filter and 100% Synthetic is Critical...try this using Fram, or partial-Synthetic, or regular Oil, and I can guarantee you will have heavy sludge as well as carbonized oil everywhere in your engine and it will eventually seize.
Most people dont keep a car past 150K...and Ive done this and kept all of them well over 150K, 2 of them 250K+, so if it works past 250K...with none of the tell-tale signs of poor lubricating or sludge, what could one worry about? Ive seen a lot of engines that run bad at 125K miles even with their 3K-5K oil changes...
Mobile 1 10-30 used here every 5k all 5qts changed. 50k miles per oil change in my opinion is well beyond the lifetime of the viscosity retention ability. Also I can see major deposits to develope with that kind of oil change interval. I would say by the sounds of it your butterfly breaking off is the least I would worry about in your engine. I would say run a flush through it but then again you might not want to disturb any deposits that may or maynot have built up. Thats one hell of a testimonial for the 2j though (or if some american brand that engine then). I would never bash you either bro but thats some hellacious risk taking if you ask me. Gratz on the oil longevity.
03-09-11, 08:50 AM
#10
Actually the higher the number, the worse Oil performs in cold weather. Im in AZ, hot! climate, so a tad thicker oil is better IMO since I drive 80+ MPH in literally 110-120-deg heat.
Also, Ive been building and re-building engines since 1988, Ive never been a believer in super thin oil, nor super thick, I come from the school that a bit higher oil pressure is better than a flood of oil. There is debate about this, which could be a diff thread.
After a 100K miles the bearings are broken in, and the thicker oil tends to cushion better IMO.
I also believe the harder you drive the car, the more cushion the oil needs to provide, and 5W oils place doubt in my mind on Hot, Hard driving.
Also, Ive been building and re-building engines since 1988, Ive never been a believer in super thin oil, nor super thick, I come from the school that a bit higher oil pressure is better than a flood of oil. There is debate about this, which could be a diff thread.
After a 100K miles the bearings are broken in, and the thicker oil tends to cushion better IMO.
I also believe the harder you drive the car, the more cushion the oil needs to provide, and 5W oils place doubt in my mind on Hot, Hard driving.
So would you recommend me using 10W30 in my car since i drive it pretty hard and it just broke 102xxx miles?
03-09-11, 10:11 AM
#11
Only one exception to this rule lol. Do not go with long oil change intervals on a boosted engine! I also used to do this on my older cars and run long oil change intervals when it was NA and it was perfectly fine. On a turbo car, the oil runs through the turbo bearing cartridge and the oil gets superheated near its coking/flash point at times. The hitting the turbo cartridge can sometime get in the area of 300-400F+ or so. I was testing this theory and ran my car on 5w-40 full synthetic oil. The first oil change I did at 8k miles and the oil was horrendously black. I'm talking like, it would make a piece of paper opaque. The second change I did at around 5k miles and it was getting bad, but not as bad as the 8k change. The engine still didn't burn oil though, but I would be driving in fear that the bearings would let go at any moment lol.
Anyways, I pulled that motor apart to rebuild it. Put in new pistons, rings, bearings, and all the seals. Long story short, the oil pans were pretty nasty and had a layer of buildup. It was clearly caused from the turbo's superheating of the oil. The area near the drain for the turbo oil line was covered in blackness.
So long story short, if you're turbo'd. I would change the oil often especially if you drive it very hard. If you're NA, then maybe you can get away with longer change intervals. In a NA engine, the oil temps rarely get above 220-250F while in a turbo engine the oil is constantly running 300-400F through the turbo cartridge. Either way, use your best judgment and change the oil when it starts to turn dark!
Anyways, I pulled that motor apart to rebuild it. Put in new pistons, rings, bearings, and all the seals. Long story short, the oil pans were pretty nasty and had a layer of buildup. It was clearly caused from the turbo's superheating of the oil. The area near the drain for the turbo oil line was covered in blackness.
So long story short, if you're turbo'd. I would change the oil often especially if you drive it very hard. If you're NA, then maybe you can get away with longer change intervals. In a NA engine, the oil temps rarely get above 220-250F while in a turbo engine the oil is constantly running 300-400F through the turbo cartridge. Either way, use your best judgment and change the oil when it starts to turn dark!
Last edited by JeffTsai; 03-09-11 at 10:14 AM.
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QLex300 (01-13-22)
03-10-11, 10:54 AM
#15
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Ive already started. And I dont think its cut & dry IMO.
Super Light flows really fast...But, does is provide enough "cushion" between the piston rods? Also...in Hot Desert climates...maybe not the greatest idea.
Too Heavy - Not great flow at startup or in cold climates, but once its warm, it might not break down as easy.
So...Thats why Ive stuck with 10-30 forever...I ran 20-50 in an old 350 Chevy, it needed it, that was a long time ago.
If I lived in Minn or Canada, Id probably be running 5-30 100% Syn as recommended.
If you need anything more than 10-30, then your bearings and rings are not doing so well...IMHO.
Super Light flows really fast...But, does is provide enough "cushion" between the piston rods? Also...in Hot Desert climates...maybe not the greatest idea.
Too Heavy - Not great flow at startup or in cold climates, but once its warm, it might not break down as easy.
So...Thats why Ive stuck with 10-30 forever...I ran 20-50 in an old 350 Chevy, it needed it, that was a long time ago.
If I lived in Minn or Canada, Id probably be running 5-30 100% Syn as recommended.
If you need anything more than 10-30, then your bearings and rings are not doing so well...IMHO.
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QLex300 (01-13-22)
