Is a 2JZ-GTE swap truly worth it? Your thoughts are appreciated.
12-22-10, 03:18 AM
#181
you're wrong. VVTi GE's and non VVTi GE's are completely different.
Your NA-T setup is not stout like any GTE. Run for 6 years straight in One Lap of America driving the car down from Canada to ALL of the US race tracks, finish top 10 everytime and then talk to me about reliability. Your NA-T wouldn't be able to handle a tenth of the abuse that I put GTE's through day in and day out.
Your NA-T setup is not stout like any GTE. Run for 6 years straight in One Lap of America driving the car down from Canada to ALL of the US race tracks, finish top 10 everytime and then talk to me about reliability. Your NA-T wouldn't be able to handle a tenth of the abuse that I put GTE's through day in and day out.
both need
proper timing (according to static compression)
proper fueling
overall good tuning.
turbo selection same
wastegate bov same
intercooler same
injectors same in terms of overall cc
cams basically same principle
rods Exactly the same
crank Exactly the same
block Exactly the same
because piston dish design differs from one to the otther but manufacturing process and material utilized are identical , you are saying because of dish design it would make one prone to failure as opposed to the other...i guess their could be alittle truth there seeing that ge piston is of a high compression nature so therefore finer tunig is req to keep it safe , however i have seen many of gte down here in south florida go bye bye making less power and i used to run my car hard every week damm near everyday which some local members can attest to
but ill let my tuner ,alphatune , chime in when he gets a chance about how i drive etc etc etc
Last edited by lexforlife; 12-22-10 at 05:43 AM.
12-22-10, 04:28 AM
#182
You don't need to rebuild a 2JZ-GE to slap on a turbo kit. Unless your engine has been poorly maintained and is smoking then it's fine to boost it. Think of it this way, doing a swap is going to cost you around $2000-2500 for the engine, then you have to do all the maintenance on the engine, then pay someone to install the new engine, fabricate intercooler piping, fabricate downpipe and exhaust, and then wire it all up. At the end of the day you have a stock twin turbo 2JZ-GTE. If you get the itch to upgrade to a bigger turbo, add a full turbo upgrade cost to that swap as well.
All in all, to do a 2JZ-GTE swap properly with labor included is going to run around $6-8k depending on where you take it to be done. If you want to upgrade to single turbo, then add another $2-5k just for parts depending on how serious you want to get.
NA-T, well. You can get it done properly for around $5k in parts and around $2k for labor to install it. Unless you do it yourself. The stock engine can withstand around 400rwhp without any detrimental effects. Keep in mind, 400rwhp translates to around 480bhp(power at crank) and honestly that's more than most people will ever really need for driving around everyday.
All in all, to do a 2JZ-GTE swap properly with labor included is going to run around $6-8k depending on where you take it to be done. If you want to upgrade to single turbo, then add another $2-5k just for parts depending on how serious you want to get.
NA-T, well. You can get it done properly for around $5k in parts and around $2k for labor to install it. Unless you do it yourself. The stock engine can withstand around 400rwhp without any detrimental effects. Keep in mind, 400rwhp translates to around 480bhp(power at crank) and honestly that's more than most people will ever really need for driving around everyday.
12-22-10, 05:14 AM
#183
gte & na-t
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Are you on crack? All of you hackjobs that run GE setups run your cars for 3 or 4 years before you change setups. How can you even compare an NA-T setup to GTE engines that have been running factory sealed since 1991.
Our One Lap Supra has ran on the same GTE engine for 15 years daily driven, raced in One lap of America for 6 of those 15 years @ over 650whp. I'd like to see an NA-T do that.
Our One Lap Supra has ran on the same GTE engine for 15 years daily driven, raced in One lap of America for 6 of those 15 years @ over 650whp. I'd like to see an NA-T do that.
Let's not start the name calling please!!! can we have a discussion like some adults!
Who changed their setup after 3 or 4 years?
Who care about factory seal? because i don't
I don't care about your Lap Supra, i looks like you are stuck in your ways
tell the one that don't know that GTE is more realiable that Na-T.Have a nice day.
12-22-10, 07:40 AM
#184
All this back and forth is really getting anoying and is going nowhere.
If the OP is still interested in this thread, I myself had the very same question which I took to both my mechanic:IS A 2JZ-GTE WORTH IT? He asked me a simple question "how much power you looking to make?" My response was no more than 500whp. He said I wouldn't need to do a swap for that kind of HP. The amount of $ that would be spent on a stock 2JZ-GTE + wiring + would be better invested in just buying a turbo kit and a HG. You would have to go big single regardless of whick motor you use to make over 400whp. I spent $7k in parts and labor to ensure my NA-T conversion was done right. If you look at the numbers that Jeff threw out there, I would say he's right on point. Not to mention he HAS done BOTH.
12-22-10, 11:30 AM
#185
13 pages and you came up with this? Really?
All this back and forth is really getting anoying and is going nowhere.
If the OP is still interested in this thread, I myself had the very same question which I took to both my mechanic:IS A 2JZ-GTE WORTH IT? He asked me a simple question "how much power you looking to make?" My response was no more than 500whp. He said I wouldn't need to do a swap for that kind of HP. The amount of $ that would be spent on a stock 2JZ-GTE + wiring + would be better invested in just buying a turbo kit and a HG. You would have to go big single regardless of whick motor you use to make over 400whp. I spent $7k in parts and labor to ensure my NA-T conversion was done right. If you look at the numbers that Jeff threw out there, I would say he's right on point. Not to mention he HAS done BOTH.
All this back and forth is really getting anoying and is going nowhere.
If the OP is still interested in this thread, I myself had the very same question which I took to both my mechanic:IS A 2JZ-GTE WORTH IT? He asked me a simple question "how much power you looking to make?" My response was no more than 500whp. He said I wouldn't need to do a swap for that kind of HP. The amount of $ that would be spent on a stock 2JZ-GTE + wiring + would be better invested in just buying a turbo kit and a HG. You would have to go big single regardless of whick motor you use to make over 400whp. I spent $7k in parts and labor to ensure my NA-T conversion was done right. If you look at the numbers that Jeff threw out there, I would say he's right on point. Not to mention he HAS done BOTH.
12-23-10, 06:08 AM
#187
With the VVTI GTE I have seen the motors with tranny / ecu sell for 2K or so, for that you are getting a strong bottom end, good cams designed for boost, upgraded fuel injectors to run 500 RWHP or so. You don't have to worry about paying extra labor to strip the motor down to a short block, you don't need to spend money on a $200 head gasket, nor do you have to pay a machine shop to deck your block or clean up the head which should be done once you pull the head to clean up the residue left behind. Now you can sell off your stock motor for $500 or so to recover costs, and you are left with a 2JZ-GTE motor that will increase the value of your car over the GE. I hate the GE intake manifold, the GTE is so much nicer to deal with when it comes to working on the car.
Think about the costs, to upgrade a GE your going to need used GTE pistons / rods $200, new rings, bearings, machine work to hone, $200, deck the block, clean up the head to ensure it's straight $110, You might as well get a new oil pump since your in there $200, Labor to assemble the short block $450, New head gasket, rear main seal, cam seals, crank seal, orings $300, extra labor to strip the motor to a short block and reassemble that you wouldn't have with the GTE $600. You don't have to buy a turbo kit or fuel injectors as you already have stock twins and fuel, you don't have to spend money on a stand alone EMS as the stock computer is setup to run boost, you don't have to spend money upgrading your intake manifold later on, and you can sell your old motor off, you have the oil feed right where the turbo is so you don't need to run a long oil line across your motor nor do you have to drill and tap the oil return. I've done both, my car used to be a GE turbo making over 450 RWHP, now its a non vvti GTE making 630 RWHP, if I had to do it over I would have just installed the vvti GTE as it would have saved allot of headaches.
Think about the costs, to upgrade a GE your going to need used GTE pistons / rods $200, new rings, bearings, machine work to hone, $200, deck the block, clean up the head to ensure it's straight $110, You might as well get a new oil pump since your in there $200, Labor to assemble the short block $450, New head gasket, rear main seal, cam seals, crank seal, orings $300, extra labor to strip the motor to a short block and reassemble that you wouldn't have with the GTE $600. You don't have to buy a turbo kit or fuel injectors as you already have stock twins and fuel, you don't have to spend money on a stand alone EMS as the stock computer is setup to run boost, you don't have to spend money upgrading your intake manifold later on, and you can sell your old motor off, you have the oil feed right where the turbo is so you don't need to run a long oil line across your motor nor do you have to drill and tap the oil return. I've done both, my car used to be a GE turbo making over 450 RWHP, now its a non vvti GTE making 630 RWHP, if I had to do it over I would have just installed the vvti GTE as it would have saved allot of headaches.
12-23-10, 06:32 AM
#189
With the VVTI GTE I have seen the motors with tranny / ecu sell for 2K or so, for that you are getting a strong bottom end, good cams designed for boost, upgraded fuel injectors to run 500 RWHP or so. You don't have to worry about paying extra labor to strip the motor down to a short block, you don't need to spend money on a $200 head gasket, nor do you have to pay a machine shop to deck your block or clean up the head which should be done once you pull the head to clean up the residue left behind. Now you can sell off your stock motor for $500 or so to recover costs, and you are left with a 2JZ-GTE motor that will increase the value of your car over the GE. I hate the GE intake manifold, the GTE is so much nicer to deal with when it comes to working on the car.
Think about the costs, to upgrade a GE your going to need used GTE pistons / rods $200, new rings, bearings, machine work to hone, $200, deck the block, clean up the head to ensure it's straight $110, You might as well get a new oil pump since your in there $200, Labor to assemble the short block $450, New head gasket, rear main seal, cam seals, crank seal, orings $300, extra labor to strip the motor to a short block and reassemble that you wouldn't have with the GTE $600. You don't have to buy a turbo kit or fuel injectors as you already have stock twins and fuel, you don't have to spend money on a stand alone EMS as the stock computer is setup to run boost, you don't have to spend money upgrading your intake manifold later on, and you can sell your old motor off, you have the oil feed right where the turbo is so you don't need to run a long oil line across your motor nor do you have to drill and tap the oil return. I've done both, my car used to be a GE turbo making over 450 RWHP, now its a non vvti GTE making 630 RWHP, if I had to do it over I would have just installed the vvti GTE as it would have saved allot of headaches.
Think about the costs, to upgrade a GE your going to need used GTE pistons / rods $200, new rings, bearings, machine work to hone, $200, deck the block, clean up the head to ensure it's straight $110, You might as well get a new oil pump since your in there $200, Labor to assemble the short block $450, New head gasket, rear main seal, cam seals, crank seal, orings $300, extra labor to strip the motor to a short block and reassemble that you wouldn't have with the GTE $600. You don't have to buy a turbo kit or fuel injectors as you already have stock twins and fuel, you don't have to spend money on a stand alone EMS as the stock computer is setup to run boost, you don't have to spend money upgrading your intake manifold later on, and you can sell your old motor off, you have the oil feed right where the turbo is so you don't need to run a long oil line across your motor nor do you have to drill and tap the oil return. I've done both, my car used to be a GE turbo making over 450 RWHP, now its a non vvti GTE making 630 RWHP, if I had to do it over I would have just installed the vvti GTE as it would have saved allot of headaches.
yeah this is assuming 2 things
first and foremost , assuming you get lucky and get a good motor and not junk thats been circulating around for i know firsthand 2 of larger importers here in florida who actually goto to japan to personally choose their purchases are now complaining about the shortage of true low milage good condition platforms remaining available
and secondly , you would be hard pressed to make 500rwhp for long on those twins and fuel , safely
you forgot to add the costs involved for wiring and all the misc things necessary for the aristo motor to work in the sc not to mention the possibly of needing to replace hg for you dont know how the motor was run in japan ( any overheating etc etc etc)
please adam and bippu , dont get this twisted , a gte platform with a solid motor is a well intended design for boost from factory however i dont like when the talk is centered around ge not being as stout or reliable as the gte itself.
right now will be helping a buddy do a sec gen gs 300 , i am recc him to do the gte vvti for all he will ever want is max 400rwhp for this is his daily driver so in this case its def a more cost effective route to go for simplicities sake ..if he was looking in the 500rwhp + range or closer to 600 like myself , i would recc doing the ge with proper supporting mods and a ffim like did . 90% of the cost to go gte can be put towards turboing the ge perfectly without adding on top of the cost to go gte , the items needed to go single and shoot for the 600-700 range
12-23-10, 07:57 AM
#190
Lexus Test Driver
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yeah this is assuming 2 things
first and foremost , assuming you get lucky and get a good motor and not junk thats been circulating around for i know firsthand 2 of larger importers here in florida who actually goto to japan to personally choose their purchases are now complaining about the shortage of true low milage good condition platforms remaining available
and secondly , you would be hard pressed to make 500rwhp for long on those twins and fuel , safely
you forgot to add the costs involved for wiring and all the misc things necessary for the aristo motor to work in the sc not to mention the possibly of needing to replace hg for you dont know how the motor was run in japan ( any overheating etc etc etc)
please adam and bippu , dont get this twisted , a gte platform with a solid motor is a well intended design for boost from factory however i dont like when the talk is centered around ge not being as stout or reliable as the gte itself.
right now will be helping a buddy do a sec gen gs 300 , i am recc him to do the gte vvti for all he will ever want is max 400rwhp for this is his daily driver so in this case its def a more cost effective route to go for simplicities sake ..if he was looking in the 500rwhp + range or closer to 600 like myself , i would recc doing the ge with proper supporting mods and a ffim like did . 90% of the cost to go gte can be put towards turboing the ge perfectly without adding on top of the cost to go gte , the items needed to go single and shoot for the 600-700 range
first and foremost , assuming you get lucky and get a good motor and not junk thats been circulating around for i know firsthand 2 of larger importers here in florida who actually goto to japan to personally choose their purchases are now complaining about the shortage of true low milage good condition platforms remaining available
and secondly , you would be hard pressed to make 500rwhp for long on those twins and fuel , safely
you forgot to add the costs involved for wiring and all the misc things necessary for the aristo motor to work in the sc not to mention the possibly of needing to replace hg for you dont know how the motor was run in japan ( any overheating etc etc etc)
please adam and bippu , dont get this twisted , a gte platform with a solid motor is a well intended design for boost from factory however i dont like when the talk is centered around ge not being as stout or reliable as the gte itself.
right now will be helping a buddy do a sec gen gs 300 , i am recc him to do the gte vvti for all he will ever want is max 400rwhp for this is his daily driver so in this case its def a more cost effective route to go for simplicities sake ..if he was looking in the 500rwhp + range or closer to 600 like myself , i would recc doing the ge with proper supporting mods and a ffim like did . 90% of the cost to go gte can be put towards turboing the ge perfectly without adding on top of the cost to go gte , the items needed to go single and shoot for the 600-700 range
12-23-10, 08:24 AM
#191
Facepalm x 100000000
Omg.... for the last time.. the rods in the VVTi GE are NOT the same as the non VVTi. The VVTi's have really dinky rods. Being an ELEV engine, the ringlands are near the top of the piston for emissions, making them weaker. I could break the ringlands on a VVTi GE with a small screwdriver.
Of course Jeff is going to recommend you go NA-T (seeing as he's done both)....because he's also trying to sell a turbo kit.
We're not talking about SC's in this thread. We're weighing the options / cost / value of doing a GTE swap vs building an NA-T. The engines that come in our GS300's is a giant turd. Swap it, and do your **** properly. Not only that, there is no cost to do wiring and get the engine running in our cars, it's essentially a 5 wire swap, everything drops in and plugs right in.
There is a reason Toyota used different hardware in the GTE vs. the GE. If the rods and pistons were basically the same...why wouldn't they use them across the board with all the engines??? Because GE's were not designed to handle boost. And as much as you guys think you know, you do NOT know better than Toyota engineers.
Omg.... for the last time.. the rods in the VVTi GE are NOT the same as the non VVTi. The VVTi's have really dinky rods. Being an ELEV engine, the ringlands are near the top of the piston for emissions, making them weaker. I could break the ringlands on a VVTi GE with a small screwdriver.
Of course Jeff is going to recommend you go NA-T (seeing as he's done both)....because he's also trying to sell a turbo kit.
We're not talking about SC's in this thread. We're weighing the options / cost / value of doing a GTE swap vs building an NA-T. The engines that come in our GS300's is a giant turd. Swap it, and do your **** properly. Not only that, there is no cost to do wiring and get the engine running in our cars, it's essentially a 5 wire swap, everything drops in and plugs right in.
There is a reason Toyota used different hardware in the GTE vs. the GE. If the rods and pistons were basically the same...why wouldn't they use them across the board with all the engines??? Because GE's were not designed to handle boost. And as much as you guys think you know, you do NOT know better than Toyota engineers.
12-23-10, 08:25 AM
#192
yeah this is assuming 2 things
first and foremost , assuming you get lucky and get a good motor and not junk thats been circulating around for i know firsthand 2 of larger importers here in florida who actually goto to japan to personally choose their purchases are now complaining about the shortage of true low milage good condition platforms remaining available
first and foremost , assuming you get lucky and get a good motor and not junk thats been circulating around for i know firsthand 2 of larger importers here in florida who actually goto to japan to personally choose their purchases are now complaining about the shortage of true low milage good condition platforms remaining available
and secondly , you would be hard pressed to make 500rwhp for long on those twins and fuel , safely
you forgot to add the costs involved for wiring and all the misc things necessary for the aristo motor to work in the sc not to mention the possibly of needing to replace hg for you dont know how the motor was run in japan ( any overheating etc etc etc)
please adam and bippu , dont get this twisted , a gte platform with a solid motor is a well intended design for boost from factory however i dont like when the talk is centered around ge not being as stout or reliable as the gte itself.
12-23-10, 08:40 AM
#194
Forum Administrator
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Guys, going to chime in here and ask you to be polite and mature in your disagreement with other members.
Ed, I know you've gained a lot of great experience with building and tuning the NA-T on your SC. Please make sure to specifically address the 2nd gen GS VVT-I GE motor in your replies, remember this is the 2nd gen GS forum and nobody has a non-VVT-I motor unless they've swapped it. Not saying your answers aren't accurate for both (I don't know enough to do that
) but want to make sure our members reading this understand the differences and additional complexities in a VVT-I NA-T.
Ed, I know you've gained a lot of great experience with building and tuning the NA-T on your SC. Please make sure to specifically address the 2nd gen GS VVT-I GE motor in your replies, remember this is the 2nd gen GS forum and nobody has a non-VVT-I motor unless they've swapped it. Not saying your answers aren't accurate for both (I don't know enough to do that
) but want to make sure our members reading this understand the differences and additional complexities in a VVT-I NA-T.
12-23-10, 09:16 AM
#195
Guys, going to chime in here and ask you to be polite and mature in your disagreement with other members.
Ed, I know you've gained a lot of great experience with building and tuning the NA-T on your SC. Please make sure to specifically address the 2nd gen GS VVT-I GE motor in your replies, remember this is the 2nd gen GS forum and nobody has a non-VVT-I motor unless they've swapped it. Not saying your answers aren't accurate for both (I don't know enough to do that) but want to make sure our members reading this understand the differences and additional complexities in a VVT-I NA-T.
Ed, I know you've gained a lot of great experience with building and tuning the NA-T on your SC. Please make sure to specifically address the 2nd gen GS VVT-I GE motor in your replies, remember this is the 2nd gen GS forum and nobody has a non-VVT-I motor unless they've swapped it. Not saying your answers aren't accurate for both (I don't know enough to do that
) but want to make sure our members reading this understand the differences and additional complexities in a VVT-I NA-T.
