Wow, so Torque Converter gonna cost me 6k to fix the tranny, is there any other way?
01-19-04, 01:49 PM
#1
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Wow, so Torque Converter gonna cost me 6k to fix the tranny, is there any other way?
Hey guys, I have installed the TC about 2 years now, and now it looks like it kills my transmission. IT's gonna cost 6k to fix the whole thing, is TC responsbile for such a mess? I done the Setup at longo and they told me it's fine,
anywayz, i am gonna get the car over to a more familiar dealer, more update coming up soon.
anywayz, i am gonna get the car over to a more familiar dealer, more update coming up soon.
01-19-04, 01:55 PM
#2
Wei,
Tell us more in details. Is there metal pieces from the TC shreded the tranny? Is the tranny been running too hot caused the failure? I had my tranny replaced under warranty once. May be we can exchange some stories.
Tell us more in details. Is there metal pieces from the TC shreded the tranny? Is the tranny been running too hot caused the failure? I had my tranny replaced under warranty once. May be we can exchange some stories.
01-19-04, 01:57 PM
#3
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Sorry to hear about your bad luck, but definitely want to hear more details when you have them. I've had my PI TC installed since early 2000 with no issues. Did you add a transmission cooler when you installed it?
01-19-04, 02:05 PM
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jacob: i am not sure, the service manager at steven creek doesn't know car at all, she's been finding a way to get me pay for the repair out of my own pocket, now she really done it by blaming it all to the TC. "it draines the transmission fluid " according to her. did you get ur tranny replaced based on the same TC replacement?
davegs4: no, i didn't add the transmission cooler, and is there any diference between 430 and 400 as far as the tranny goes? T_T
thanks for the quick replies guys
davegs4: no, i didn't add the transmission cooler, and is there any diference between 430 and 400 as far as the tranny goes? T_T
thanks for the quick replies guys
01-19-04, 04:04 PM
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Oh man, sorry to hear about the bad news... 
Hopefully, there's a fix to this problem without having to spend 6K. Wei, to my knowledge, it was always a "must" to install a tranny cooler when you install a high stall TC. The extra heat will cause internal damage and premature wear on moving parts. However, I would get a second opinion based on what your Service Manager is saying. It doesn't sound right???
Hopefully, there's a fix to this problem without having to spend 6K. Wei, to my knowledge, it was always a "must" to install a tranny cooler when you install a high stall TC. The extra heat will cause internal damage and premature wear on moving parts. However, I would get a second opinion based on what your Service Manager is saying. It doesn't sound right???
01-19-04, 09:30 PM
#6
I find it hard to believe that the TC caused the tranny to go, and the reason she gave sounds like its total B.S....it causes the fluid to drain, come on now!!
You probably should run a tranny cooler, but even without one, I still dont think that this alone is the cause for your tranny to go out. The cooler is cheap insurance, but there are alot of people running their TC's without one. My car had roughly 25k miles on it with a TC and RMM diff without a tranny cooler...no issues whatsoever.
By the way, before I spent 6k at the dealer for a tranny, I would have it yanked and sent out to have a race tranny built. You can get a full tranny build for something like $2500... all out tranny build. Yank it out and send it to a tuner that knows the Lex....SRT for instance.
Get a second opinion...good luck with it.
You probably should run a tranny cooler, but even without one, I still dont think that this alone is the cause for your tranny to go out. The cooler is cheap insurance, but there are alot of people running their TC's without one. My car had roughly 25k miles on it with a TC and RMM diff without a tranny cooler...no issues whatsoever.
By the way, before I spent 6k at the dealer for a tranny, I would have it yanked and sent out to have a race tranny built. You can get a full tranny build for something like $2500... all out tranny build. Yank it out and send it to a tuner that knows the Lex....SRT for instance.
Get a second opinion...good luck with it.
01-21-04, 09:19 AM
#7
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In general the PI torque converters are safe and a great performance upgrade. However, they do stress the transmission more that stock. As mentioned, anytime the torque converter is not locked up there is interenal slippage and this creates heat. Heat is an enemy of automatic transmissions. The relatively small increase stall on these TCs do not create a lot of heat but the more aggressively you drive the more heat produced.
Next comes the fact that the TC does increase the torque going into the transmission (below and up to stall speed and during shifts) this additional torque must be controlled by the tranny and that also creates heat, additional slippage and the result is wear and tear on the internal bands and clutch packs. As we know most TC owners have not had any tranny problems. In fact the Lexus tranny should be able to absorb the added heat and torque without failure... BUT... these are mechanical devices... subject to breakage at some point in their duty cycle.
As far as that woman claiming the TC drains the tranny whatever...
My advice is before spending that kind of money, contact a shop with experience building stronger Lexus transmissions, SRT comes to mind. IMHO it would make total sense to have the tranny rebuilt stronger than stock especially since it can be done for around the same or less than your quote.
Another option would be to locate a tranny from a wreck.
Good luck. Let us know what you decide and how much it costs!
Next comes the fact that the TC does increase the torque going into the transmission (below and up to stall speed and during shifts) this additional torque must be controlled by the tranny and that also creates heat, additional slippage and the result is wear and tear on the internal bands and clutch packs. As we know most TC owners have not had any tranny problems. In fact the Lexus tranny should be able to absorb the added heat and torque without failure... BUT... these are mechanical devices... subject to breakage at some point in their duty cycle.
As far as that woman claiming the TC drains the tranny
whatever... My advice is before spending that kind of money, contact a shop with experience building stronger Lexus transmissions, SRT comes to mind. IMHO it would make total sense to have the tranny rebuilt stronger than stock especially since it can be done for around the same or less than your quote.
Another option would be to locate a tranny from a wreck.
Good luck. Let us know what you decide and how much it costs!
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01-21-04, 09:34 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Don't walk, but RUN the other direction from this service advisor that is telling you that the TC will "drain the tranny fluid".
Are you kidding me???? Drain it WHERE? On the ground? Into outerspace? The tranny is a closed system. There is no "draining" unless via a leak or on purpose. The TC is filled with fluid all the time. The tranny is filled all the time. The fluid runs thru the entire tranny and circulates. It is a hydraulic fluid, lubricator, and coolant to all the parts. Heat is the biggest single enemy, outside of abuse, to the transmission. It is cooled from the factory via the car's stock radiator. This is why we elect to put a much more efficient aftermarket cooler when we install a higher stall TC.
The TC can only cause tranny failure if it either blows up or breaks internally. It is a fluid coupler and torque magnifier. It does NOT deal directly with shifting gears. In either instance, you will have tons of "scrapnel" all over the tranny and pan on the magnets. Catastrophic TC failure is rare compared to other tranny failure reasons. If you have the PI Dragon TC, it is said to change colors from the original purple color when it fails due to heat. If you call PI, they will tell you that is one way that they will either warranty it or not.
So personally I would say that if the TC is still the same color or you don't have a clearly excessive amount of metal stuck to the magnets in your tranny pan that can be directly connected to the TC.....it's NOT the TC that caused the problem. The reason why so many times people blame the TC incorrectly is because the only REAL 100% way to know if it has indeed failed is to cut it open. Once you do that, it's worthless anyway.
What was the tranny doing to lead you to think it had a problem?
Are you kidding me???? Drain it WHERE? On the ground? Into outerspace? The tranny is a closed system. There is no "draining" unless via a leak or on purpose. The TC is filled with fluid all the time. The tranny is filled all the time. The fluid runs thru the entire tranny and circulates. It is a hydraulic fluid, lubricator, and coolant to all the parts. Heat is the biggest single enemy, outside of abuse, to the transmission. It is cooled from the factory via the car's stock radiator. This is why we elect to put a much more efficient aftermarket cooler when we install a higher stall TC.
The TC can only cause tranny failure if it either blows up or breaks internally. It is a fluid coupler and torque magnifier. It does NOT deal directly with shifting gears. In either instance, you will have tons of "scrapnel" all over the tranny and pan on the magnets. Catastrophic TC failure is rare compared to other tranny failure reasons. If you have the PI Dragon TC, it is said to change colors from the original purple color when it fails due to heat. If you call PI, they will tell you that is one way that they will either warranty it or not.
So personally I would say that if the TC is still the same color or you don't have a clearly excessive amount of metal stuck to the magnets in your tranny pan that can be directly connected to the TC.....it's NOT the TC that caused the problem. The reason why so many times people blame the TC incorrectly is because the only REAL 100% way to know if it has indeed failed is to cut it open. Once you do that, it's worthless anyway.
What was the tranny doing to lead you to think it had a problem?
01-21-04, 05:36 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
I highly doubt the PI TC failed. What exactly are your tranny symtoms? One of the signs of a damaged transmission is darkened/brown tranny fluid that has a smoked/burned smell.
As I said above, transmissions are mechanical devices and subject to failure. One of the things that creates heat is in fact the luxury tuning of the shift points. The longer a tranny takes to change gears the more heat is generated. This is one of the reasons that the engineers reduce torque/power during the shifts on most luxury performance vehicles... because by programming slow smooth shifts the tranny is exposed to more abuse. Of course the smooth nature of the shifts are considered "refined" and therefore desireable. I for one would much prefer a quick shifting, less smooth tranny during 80% or more throttle driving.
BTW, it is also a good idea to limit time spent "loading" the converter. IOW, holding the brake and bringing the revs up with the car in gear. This is the best way to generate a drag strip launch, I do it myself, just limit it to the shortest time possible as it is a BIG heat producer.
As I said above, transmissions are mechanical devices and subject to failure. One of the things that creates heat is in fact the luxury tuning of the shift points. The longer a tranny takes to change gears the more heat is generated. This is one of the reasons that the engineers reduce torque/power during the shifts on most luxury performance vehicles... because by programming slow smooth shifts the tranny is exposed to more abuse. Of course the smooth nature of the shifts are considered "refined" and therefore desireable. I for one would much prefer a quick shifting, less smooth tranny during 80% or more throttle driving.
BTW, it is also a good idea to limit time spent "loading" the converter. IOW, holding the brake and bringing the revs up with the car in gear. This is the best way to generate a drag strip launch, I do it myself, just limit it to the shortest time possible as it is a BIG heat producer.
01-21-04, 07:26 PM
#10
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Originally posted by jbrady
BTW, it is also a good idea to limit time spent "loading" the converter. IOW, holding the brake and bringing the revs up with the car in gear. This is the best way to generate a drag strip launch, I do it myself, just limit it to the shortest time possible as it is a BIG heat producer.
BTW, it is also a good idea to limit time spent "loading" the converter. IOW, holding the brake and bringing the revs up with the car in gear. This is the best way to generate a drag strip launch, I do it myself, just limit it to the shortest time possible as it is a BIG heat producer.
gsintensive, your handle on here makes me wonder if you 'intensely' treated the tranny, e.g., a lot of brake/torque starts. Someone locally here destroyed his tranny doing that.
01-25-04, 08:17 AM
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jbrady,
hey i read your post and i was wondering if you think using the "M" mode would be "safer" for shifting? i think it shifts a little faster when u use M mode, but i am definitely not sure about that. im sure u know much better then me. thanks.
T
hey i read your post and i was wondering if you think using the "M" mode would be "safer" for shifting? i think it shifts a little faster when u use M mode, but i am definitely not sure about that. im sure u know much better then me. thanks.
T
02-04-04, 05:34 PM
#12
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Originally posted by bitkahuna
This was something I was wondering, namely, how has 'gsintensive' treated his tranny?
gsintensive, your handle on here makes me wonder if you 'intensely' treated the tranny, e.g., a lot of brake/torque starts. Someone locally here destroyed his tranny doing that.
This was something I was wondering, namely, how has 'gsintensive' treated his tranny?
gsintensive, your handle on here makes me wonder if you 'intensely' treated the tranny, e.g., a lot of brake/torque starts. Someone locally here destroyed his tranny doing that.
no, I have not been power braking for more than years, there are simply not enough chances to do it off the street/light, let along to destroy the tranny. I have always refered my GS as a comfort oriented sedan than a racing hot rod, so that's that.
The car is now being repaired by a far less price, thanks for all the detailed feedback, I am now back to reply all PM's, thanks again for the support.
Wei.
02-04-04, 06:52 PM
#13
i remember talking 2 mrsypher and he had a problem thats was cuased by his tc but he was alsorunning without a tranny cooler and ran it hard and long but it wasn't the tranny that went , it was something else. wel man i hope it works out 4 u...good luck
02-04-04, 07:27 PM
#14
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Originally posted by gsintensive
wow, thanks for the great support a fellow member, thumb up to you, bitkahuna, unless you have something informative like all others here, (Jacobt, Jbrady, Tturbo, DAve, Lxogood) I suggest you keep the attitude to yourself.
wow, thanks for the great support a fellow member, thumb up to you, bitkahuna, unless you have something informative like all others here, (Jacobt, Jbrady, Tturbo, DAve, Lxogood) I suggest you keep the attitude to yourself.
The car is now being repaired by a far less price, thanks for all the detailed feedback, I am now back to reply all PM's, thanks again for the support.
02-05-04, 11:52 AM
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I have always refered my GS as a comfort oriented sedan than a racing hot rod, so that's that.
but anyways, i hope you get your car back soon! glad you're not getting ripped off. Unless I'm mistaken, i heard that Ted, the master tech from longo who used to take care of a lot of CL member's cars, moved up to Lexus Stevens Creek, so too bad that he didn't check your car. sounds like the service advisor was a total idiot.
go bears.