Sargon,
I guess you and I are the only ones that remember that article. I still have some of my old parts in the garage. The bad thing about the head on that engine it was not a cross flow design and the Mickey Mouse way they did the distributor and oil pump. But I loved the engine, you could build a stroker with a Chevy 292 crank and end up with a little over 300 ci. Oh well that is my reminiscing for the day.

 

A friend of mine owns an unrestored (so far) 1970 Jaguar E-Type Series 2 with the original 4.2L inline-six and four speed manual. When he'd recently gotten it running again he let me drive it. Even with so much work left to do for its restoration and a badly slipping old clutch it was a lot of fun. The engine is no powerhouse but it felt great and fun. I don't really miss carburetors after having owned a carb fueled V8 vehicle years ago but those twin or triple(?) side draft carbs on the Jag inline-six are something that is now unique and rare to experience.

 

One advantage to ITB (or at least group-separated multiple TB): they are far more tolerant of radical cams, especially with long overlap and early exhaust valve opening. Torque, response etc. off idle are much improved.
You may see remarks indicating that the total intake airflow is the ITB throttle disc area × 6 vs. the single OEM. It's not that simple, each cylinder uses the same TB in rotation, not simultaneously (unless the intake duration is huge). Six trains can run on the same track... if they run one behind the other. If using ITB the CFM of each is far, far larger than the total CFM target ÷ 6 cylinders.

 

For those interested, Retropower cars finally got their customer’s Jaguar MK2 sedan powered by a Weber carbureted 2JZ-GE running. It sounds great!

It probably only makes about the same horsepower as stock at best but for a restomod classic like this it’s a great upgrade in power and reliability from the original Jaguar straight six engine.

Enjoy

 

I have been meaning to reply to this thread since it came out last year. This guy says he wants to know how to make the most power out of a normally aspirated 2JZGE and most of the comments are (predictably) just turbo it or something unrelated. There are many many threads on how to turbo a 2JZGE, if he wanted to know any of that he could go to those threads. If you don't have anything to offer, just move along to the next thread. Leave this one for the few of us that want to get the most out of a naturally aspirated 2J.

 

If he is going to swap, probably better to do an LS swap!

 

Rodger, I am 100% behind you on this since at my age I will never turbo my car. What in the world will a soon to be 83 year old do with 600 HP. But this would have been great in my younger days. I honestly would love to have 300 - 325 HP and that would be find so I would love to add on to my headers, Supra mid pipe and Manzo cat back exhaust since I now have my suspension and this coming week will install my LS400 front brakes making it more safer to drive.

Congrats on the Mississippi State win at Omaha tonight, we watched the game and enjoyed it.

 

It's just that for *maximum power* from a naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE build... to actually do it right and not just bolt a few things on you really have to spend a lot of money far in excess of an NA-T build, 1JZ-GTE swap, 2JZ-GTE swap, LS1/2/3 V8 swap or any other already powerful engine swap.... while still only having the *possibility* of getting perhaps as much power as Brendan's NA Supra (in the SF link several posts back) has made on E85.

If you read his thread all the way through you'll see that his NA Supra is very much a dedicated track car now and is not very street-able any longer in its max power tune configuration.

And if you look at what it cost Brendan ($25k USD invested in his car) it should give anyone some pause to ask themselves if that kind of financial dedication working with the right engine builder and tuner is the route they want to go over a turbocharged configuration.

However you don't have to go quite as far as he did to do something unique while making less ultimate power and while still using regular 91-93 octane pump gas. But it'll still be very costly.

Bill, I can appreciate this as well. Maybe heavy modification with a turbo isn't what you want to get into at this point and that's totally understandable. I recently chatted with a gentleman of 75 years just before he sold his '93 SC300 5-speed. He also was not interested in doing any turbo conversion to his car.

In my SC I previously very much enjoyed the 100% stock 225hp non-turbo engine mated to its 5-speed manual transmission with upgraded brakes, an upgraded suspension and the aforementioned Manzo M2 cat-back exhaust system (which I still have on my car today). The feel of the SC as a classic GT is what I like the most about these cars... and I had that already when my SC was naturally aspirated. I'm not removing my 2JZ-GTE and to go back to an NA engine at this point but it's an enhancement to the car rather than a prerequisite.

To realistically and somewhat affordably get yourself 325hp (which is a very respectable, modest and livable power figure) it makes the most sense to get it with an NA-T conversion using a modern 58mm or 62mm turbo with a standard 2JZ-GTE ECU for control. Keeping the power goal modest while focusing on reliability and remaining with factory turbo ECU can net a very livable and under-stressed turbo daily driver configuration for an SC.

It's just that when expecting to make NA power from a 2JZ (or 1JZ) one has to be realistic with expectations because getting significant gains in the 300hp range on race fuel in a pretty much track-only tune costs a lot of money compared to any style turbocharged configuration.

...

That's why I wanted to share the new video of the custom carbureted 2JZ-GE in that MK2 Jaguar sedan. It's not be the most powerful JZ engine out there but it's very unique and assuredly a lot of fun to drive with! It shows another of the possibilities that can be achieved for uniqueness above all other considerations.

The Toyota engineers designed the JZ engine family from the start with turbocharging and extreme durability with boost in mind. However if someone wants to go *really* custom and if the *feel* of the NA engine configuration is much more important than outright power numbers then an NA build can be quite interesting indeed.

The custom carbureted and custom ITB setups (respectively) posted earlier in this thread definitely capture that spirit well. They come at a high cost (especially Brendan's build) but they both sound amazing and provide a very unique experience after much dedication and custom work.

The most practical and realistically affordable route to 300hp+ is still an NA-T build or GTE engine swap but if on the other hand something very unique is desired at some expense involving custom work but without worry about a maximum NA power figure then there are a couple of interesting NA 2JZ engine builds to draw inspiration from.
​​​​​

 

Good morning Craig,
Just a note to thank you for you comments. Just not sure what I am going top do now.
You mentioned the video of the Jag with with the 2JZ. The engine has been put in everything except motorcycles and airplanes. Just for giggles see if you can go back on "Barn Finds" to find the article about the 1960 Nash Rambler that the elderly man had built with a 2jZ. He had removed all of the electronics and made an intake manifold for two carbs and also adapted a distributor from a slant six Chrysler product. It is so dependable that he and his wife have traveled all over the country in the car. The article was within the past couple of weeks.

 

Sure, that would provide more power, but it would negate the "cost effective solution" half of my statement.

 

Bill, you're welcome. Truly with these cars there is no wrong way to enjoy them. They had versatile configurations from the factory in Japan and the U.S./Canada and over the years since they were first produced the many ways they can be customized to suit personal tastes has grown considerably. I have always felt that we were cheated in the U.S. and Canada by having no 1JZ-GTE engine option (and no factory manual transmission option for any V8 model SC's or Soarers) but that reality is very old news.

At your suggestion I found the article featuring the 1960 Nash Rambler with a custom carbureted 2JZ-GE swap. That's a very cool update to a classic and somewhat compact Nash! It's weird that the host of the video acts as if 2JZ-GE's never came with distributors in stock configuration (!) but looking at the video I see how he adapted the Chrysler Slant-six distributor with some machining and re-use of the original 2JZ-GE distributor's gear.

It's crazy that he gets 27-30 MPG out of that thing when only the middle of the three carburetors is active however that Rambler is probably much lighter than the average SC, GS or 1st generation IS chassis which helps. Plus with the older style carburetor setup and none of the stock emissions equipment there isn't much else to get in the way of it sipping fuel.

The only JZ engine variants that got that kind of fuel economy from the factory are the Japan-market only 2JZ-FSE (220hp) and 1JZ-FSE (200hp) D4S direct injection variants (both non-turbo and automatic only) produced through the early 2000's until around 2005 or so.

From what he says it needs a stronger automatic transmission than the 700R4 that he adapted. The 3.42:1 Ford 8" rear axle (with a Detroit Locker LSD!) is pretty good for a long distance cruiser like this. Getting the 2JZ's power steering pump and a PS rack adapted for that Rambler is a good call.

I'm glad he's preparing to upgrade the front factory drum brakes to sliding caliper discs. I once owned a car with drum brakes front and rear and I'll never use anything less than four wheel disc brake setups now even if it means retrofitting a car that never came with them originally.

It's very cool to see creative swaps of the 2JZ engine like this, especially when people throw carbs onto them. The owner doesn't say how much power the engine makes with all three carbs activated but it's probably much more than the Rambler had from the factory. It is a husband and wife cruiser car after all so it's not really about high power numbers for them.

Thanks for the alert!

Here is another site hosting their own version of the article and a video introduction and short drive with the 2JZ-GE swapped triple carbureted 1960 Nash Rambler:

https://bangshift.com/general-news/c...tor-yep-watch/

 

Yep. As you said, a 5-speed manual or other manual transmission swap will improve power output to the wheels and generally provide a more involving driver experience. After that an NA-T build, or GTE swap is the next general level up from that at a big price jump over stock NA. I don't think many people swap the 1UZ-FE into SC300's though. It's much more common to see manual transmission swaps into SC400's though.

I'm not sure where on the price scale an LS1 swap or other LS V8 swap falls with SC's but it's certainly much more custom than an NA-T build or a GTE swap. Probably at that point the cost of the LS and all the components needed for it are compared to whatever the current costs for an NA-T build or particular flavor of GTE are at current time.

...

To all, for the record I'm not of the opinion that a naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE can't be a lot of fun or that it's impossible to get more power out of it than stock. In this thread I've only tried to offer some brass tax on just how steep the hill is stacked against making more power than stock with a naturally aspirated 2JZ versus even the mildest horsepower increases via turbocharging these engines.

Going further, that's why I feel that these few but interesting examples of very custom modified 2JZ's with any type of individual throttle bodies or Weber carburetors are worthy of inclusion in this thread. Usually they are not going to be a way to make much far more power than stock (unless someone spends the kind of money that LRG Soup @ SF aka Brendan has) and these routes aren't cheap or cost effective... but they are really cool and unique setups that emphasize a very classic style naturally aspirated engine experience to the maximum in my opinion.

Perhaps it's sacrilege to include these clips here but I just want to illustrate that this use of carbs or ITB's on engines originally designed from the factory as fuel injection naturally aspirated or turbocharged also extends to Nissan RB engines. Actually it's more common with Nissan RB engines, usually in conjunction with swapping them into classic cars of the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's.

Here's one such setup with an RB26 (2.6L) and another with an Australian RB30 NA (3.0L) bottom end both using carb/ITB's on each cylinder. The RB26 did technically have individual throttle bodies housed inside its original factory intake manifold but that was only ever intended for forced induction. Nothing like what you see below, yet it works so well just as you can see.

 

And since this is a 2JZ-GE thread on an SC300 sub-forum, here are some videos of several naturally aspirated 2JZ-GE's using ITB setups

First, here is Brendan's (LRG Soup @ SF) MKIV NA Supra with his custom ITB setup:





And here's an S31 Z with a 2JZ-GE swap using a custom ITB setup (and a 2JZ-GTE VVT-i cam cover). I think this one may actually be a using a 2JZ-GE VVT-i cylinder head:



Here's another MKIV Supra NA (non-VVT-i) that has been converted to using ITB's. This may be from Germany or Austria.


And finally here's yet another Supra MKIV NA (in the UK?) that has had a custom ITB conversion. In the two videos the owner and his tuning shop are working out the kinks through first starts to smooth idle in preparation for fine tuning. He states he's not going for the most power but rather for a very unique and fun naturally aspirated setup .

 

Craig,
Just a note to say Thanks for the entertainment of the N/A 2jz cars. I will watch again tonight. I never get tired of seeing what different minds come up with no matter what kind of engine
Bill

 

I am curious as to who has the most powerful NA SC300 in the USA. I'm not going to ask who has the most powerful 2JZ-GE because a lot of the IS300 guys have stuff done and those newer cars just seem to respond to mods better than the non-VVTI motors do. And I don't know if there's any fancy ITB setups built that are shoehorned into ratrods or other makes out there that I just haven't seen yet.
The only ITB 2JZ car I know of in North America is Brendan's.
I have a SC300 and IS300 and they are both almost maxed out in the "stock NA" category. I don't have cams, lightened driveshafts, or ITBs, but I've done most of the other tricks to get to the point where I've almost run out of things I can do with the stock ecu still in place.

I keep forgetting who's screenname here is XXX on FB, but I'm almost certain RXRoger and KahnBB6 have chatted with me on FB in at least 2 of the groups