Need some info about the Aristo VVTI GTE
07-17-18, 07:27 AM
#1
Need some info about the Aristo VVTI GTE
Due to a back injury a few years ago I'm not able to work a clutch so I'm going to have to stay with an auto transmission. This means my overall power goal is pretty modest, just enough to put a smile on my face when I get into it good. I have a 98 SC300 and in my state it will have to not have a check engine light on until 2033 when it finally ages out of the inspection program.
It looks like the most bang for my buck and the most reliable setup would be a mildly tuned Aristo VVTI GTE swap but I have a few questions first.
Question 1.
Is the auto transmission in the VVTI GTE Aristo the same as the one in my SC or should I get it as well? The price difference is only a couple hundred bucks between just the engine and the engine and transmission together so if it's better it's a cheap upgrade.
Question 2.
Will the VVTI GTE intake and exhaust manifolds bolt to my VVTI GE engine? My engine is healthy so if the manifolds will bolt up I might try to just get them and keep my engine.
Question 3.
Are the VVTI GTE internals the good stuff from the early models or are they the weaker stuff from the VVTI GE engine?
Question 4.
What in the world kind of engine management would be the best for this setup? Can I swap the whole car to the Aristo ECM? Can I run a piggyback to control the bits either stock ECM can't handle or would a full stand alone be the best?
It looks like the most bang for my buck and the most reliable setup would be a mildly tuned Aristo VVTI GTE swap but I have a few questions first.
Question 1.
Is the auto transmission in the VVTI GTE Aristo the same as the one in my SC or should I get it as well? The price difference is only a couple hundred bucks between just the engine and the engine and transmission together so if it's better it's a cheap upgrade.
Question 2.
Will the VVTI GTE intake and exhaust manifolds bolt to my VVTI GE engine? My engine is healthy so if the manifolds will bolt up I might try to just get them and keep my engine.
Question 3.
Are the VVTI GTE internals the good stuff from the early models or are they the weaker stuff from the VVTI GE engine?
Question 4.
What in the world kind of engine management would be the best for this setup? Can I swap the whole car to the Aristo ECM? Can I run a piggyback to control the bits either stock ECM can't handle or would a full stand alone be the best?
07-17-18, 09:11 AM
#2
Pretty simple questions that are covered in a lot of posts, but I have free time and just did this swap in an older sc so why not.
question 1. The trans is similar, but not the same. There are some considerable differences and you will need the aristo trans. More solenoids, more clutches and a larger torque converter to name a few.
question 2. No, The ports and bolt design on the GTE will not work on GE heads.
Question 3. They are the good stuff from early models. All GTE rods, pistons and crank are the same. Its the GEs that differ in strength of rods.
Question 4. Too many variables. Obviously a high end standalone would be best. But for keeping power within the stock transmissions capabilities, you could get away with a stock ecu as the injectors can only handle about 400 or so hp; the transmission slightly higher in stock form with an uprated cooler attached to it.
question 1. The trans is similar, but not the same. There are some considerable differences and you will need the aristo trans. More solenoids, more clutches and a larger torque converter to name a few.
question 2. No, The ports and bolt design on the GTE will not work on GE heads.
Question 3. They are the good stuff from early models. All GTE rods, pistons and crank are the same. Its the GEs that differ in strength of rods.
Question 4. Too many variables. Obviously a high end standalone would be best. But for keeping power within the stock transmissions capabilities, you could get away with a stock ecu as the injectors can only handle about 400 or so hp; the transmission slightly higher in stock form with an uprated cooler attached to it.
07-17-18, 09:21 AM
#3
Pretty simple questions that are covered in a lot of posts, but I have free time and just did this swap in an older sc so why not.
question 1. The trans is similar, but not the same. There are some considerable differences and you will need the aristo trans. More solenoids, more clutches and a larger torque converter to name a few.
question 2. No, The ports and bolt design on the GTE will not work on GE heads.
Question 3. They are the good stuff from early models. All GTE rods, pistons and crank are the same. Its the GEs that differ in strength of rods.
Question 4. Too many variables. Obviously a high end standalone would be best. But for keeping power within the stock transmissions capabilities, you could get away with a stock ecu as the injectors can only handle about 400 or so hp; the transmission slightly higher in stock form with an uprated cooler attached to it.
question 1. The trans is similar, but not the same. There are some considerable differences and you will need the aristo trans. More solenoids, more clutches and a larger torque converter to name a few.
question 2. No, The ports and bolt design on the GTE will not work on GE heads.
Question 3. They are the good stuff from early models. All GTE rods, pistons and crank are the same. Its the GEs that differ in strength of rods.
Question 4. Too many variables. Obviously a high end standalone would be best. But for keeping power within the stock transmissions capabilities, you could get away with a stock ecu as the injectors can only handle about 400 or so hp; the transmission slightly higher in stock form with an uprated cooler attached to it.
Thank you, I was really having trouble finding info about the transmission in particular and wanted to clarify some other things too.
07-18-18, 09:11 AM
#5
VIPSOARER pretty much nailed it. To elaborate a bit
Q1 - The Aristo GTE auto trans holds more power. Not as much as an auto Supra GTE trans, but more than the SC300 GE trans. This trans is controlled electronically by the Aristo GTE ecu. Also, this trans can be upgraded internally to hold more power, just like the Supra TT auto.
Q2 - No. The GE and GTE heads are different when it comes to the details. Bolt patterns and intake /exhaust port shape and spacing are different enough that it's not even close..
Q3 - All GTE internals (non-VVTI and VVTI) are the same. It is only the VVTI GE internals that are weaker.
Q4 - You should be able to get everything up and running reliably with the Aristo ECU as long as you're using the Aristo trans as well. Anything beyond that, you have a lot of choices, but you're gonna have to talk to people who specialize in building higher power auto GTE Supras since those are the people that know what standalone EMS work with the Toyota auto trans
Q1 - The Aristo GTE auto trans holds more power. Not as much as an auto Supra GTE trans, but more than the SC300 GE trans. This trans is controlled electronically by the Aristo GTE ecu. Also, this trans can be upgraded internally to hold more power, just like the Supra TT auto.
Q2 - No. The GE and GTE heads are different when it comes to the details. Bolt patterns and intake /exhaust port shape and spacing are different enough that it's not even close..
Q3 - All GTE internals (non-VVTI and VVTI) are the same. It is only the VVTI GE internals that are weaker.
Q4 - You should be able to get everything up and running reliably with the Aristo ECU as long as you're using the Aristo trans as well. Anything beyond that, you have a lot of choices, but you're gonna have to talk to people who specialize in building higher power auto GTE Supras since those are the people that know what standalone EMS work with the Toyota auto trans
07-18-18, 10:15 AM
#6
VIPSOARER pretty much nailed it. To elaborate a bit
Q1 - The Aristo GTE auto trans holds more power. Not as much as an auto Supra GTE trans, but more than the SC300 GE trans. This trans is controlled electronically by the Aristo GTE ecu. Also, this trans can be upgraded internally to hold more power, just like the Supra TT auto.
Q2 - No. The GE and GTE heads are different when it comes to the details. Bolt patterns and intake /exhaust port shape and spacing are different enough that it's not even close..
Q3 - All GTE internals (non-VVTI and VVTI) are the same. It is only the VVTI GE internals that are weaker.
Q4 - You should be able to get everything up and running reliably with the Aristo ECU as long as you're using the Aristo trans as well. Anything beyond that, you have a lot of choices, but you're gonna have to talk to people who specialize in building higher power auto GTE Supras since those are the people that know what standalone EMS work with the Toyota auto trans
Q1 - The Aristo GTE auto trans holds more power. Not as much as an auto Supra GTE trans, but more than the SC300 GE trans. This trans is controlled electronically by the Aristo GTE ecu. Also, this trans can be upgraded internally to hold more power, just like the Supra TT auto.
Q2 - No. The GE and GTE heads are different when it comes to the details. Bolt patterns and intake /exhaust port shape and spacing are different enough that it's not even close..
Q3 - All GTE internals (non-VVTI and VVTI) are the same. It is only the VVTI GE internals that are weaker.
Q4 - You should be able to get everything up and running reliably with the Aristo ECU as long as you're using the Aristo trans as well. Anything beyond that, you have a lot of choices, but you're gonna have to talk to people who specialize in building higher power auto GTE Supras since those are the people that know what standalone EMS work with the Toyota auto trans
Also, is there anything that can be done to the stock SC transmission to beef it up and how much can it take as it is now? I'm not a huge fan of a swap, I'd much rather go NA-T on my motor since its a known quantity but the swap seems much cheaper especially since it upgrades the transmission as well.
Another thing, does the VVTI GTE Aristo have a limited slip rear end?
Last edited by FatBrian81; 07-18-18 at 05:38 PM.
07-19-18, 09:19 AM
#7
What about force fed in NC? I would hope that would be closer than Atlanta for you. Ive heard of success stories coming from them.
You can definitely build the SC's transmission as a lot of people do that with NA-T setups. Just remember there are some advantages to the differences that come with the GTE transmissions.
If I recall LSDs were optional for Aristos. If you find one it will be a torsen unit like all the other Toyota LSDs of that era. Might be worth getting an aftermarket one with how many people swap the torsens out for clutch type LSDs.
You can definitely build the SC's transmission as a lot of people do that with NA-T setups. Just remember there are some advantages to the differences that come with the GTE transmissions.
If I recall LSDs were optional for Aristos. If you find one it will be a torsen unit like all the other Toyota LSDs of that era. Might be worth getting an aftermarket one with how many people swap the torsens out for clutch type LSDs.
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07-20-18, 07:05 AM
#8
Force Fed is a bit closer than Atlanta but still a couple hours away. I'd like to find a place in Charlotte if I can. It looks like I'm going to have to finally get a Facebook page to find some guys in my area to network with.
Detroit makes a TrueTrac for the 7.5" carrier in the MkIII Supra, I'm trying to see if their diff for the 8" Toyota carrier will work in the SC. I saw that the MkIII guys had to take the gears out of the early units and turn them around since the diff was designed for a 4x4 front axle then Detroit started making them that way for rwd applications.
Detroit makes a TrueTrac for the 7.5" carrier in the MkIII Supra, I'm trying to see if their diff for the 8" Toyota carrier will work in the SC. I saw that the MkIII guys had to take the gears out of the early units and turn them around since the diff was designed for a 4x4 front axle then Detroit started making them that way for rwd applications.
07-21-18, 02:11 AM
#9
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Force Fed is a bit closer than Atlanta but still a couple hours away. I'd like to find a place in Charlotte if I can. It looks like I'm going to have to finally get a Facebook page to find some guys in my area to network with.
Detroit makes a TrueTrac for the 7.5" carrier in the MkIII Supra, I'm trying to see if their diff for the 8" Toyota carrier will work in the SC. I saw that the MkIII guys had to take the gears out of the early units and turn them around since the diff was designed for a 4x4 front axle then Detroit started making them that way for rwd applications.
Detroit makes a TrueTrac for the 7.5" carrier in the MkIII Supra, I'm trying to see if their diff for the 8" Toyota carrier will work in the SC. I saw that the MkIII guys had to take the gears out of the early units and turn them around since the diff was designed for a 4x4 front axle then Detroit started making them that way for rwd applications.
Additionally, if you’re doing a GTE swap, go with a stand-alone or a GTE ECU. The stock GE ECU can’t control the GTE engine for many reasons (distributor vs coils for example). Don’t pay a shop to do it if you don’t have to, there is plenty of information all over the internet of how to DIY the ECU as well as aftermarket harness options.
Last edited by IISevv; 07-21-18 at 02:19 AM.
07-21-18, 04:58 PM
#10
What are your power goals? I’m going NA-T and have spent countless hours researching transmission options. Although the SC/Aristo, and Supra came with different “levels” of transmission parts, the upgrades are the same across the board and will hold the same amount of power no matter which car they’re put in. To be clear, the SC and Aristo came with the same A340E where as the Supra had the tougher A341E.
Additionally, if you’re doing a GTE swap, go with a stand-alone or a GTE ECU. The stock GE ECU can’t control the GTE engine for many reasons (distributor vs coils for example). Don’t pay a shop to do it if you don’t have to, there is plenty of information all over the internet of how to DIY the ECU as well as aftermarket harness options.
I saw a build on either the IS or GS forum where a guy turned the stock Aristo VVTI GTE motor a bit and made like 390hp and just over 400ft/lbs. That is my goal for now, the stock turbos and Aristo transmission will live for a while with that and I won't have to upgrade much. I'd like to make as much power down low as possible since I don't plan much high rpm driving with an automatic.
07-21-18, 05:05 PM
#11
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I saw a build on either the IS or GS forum where a guy turned the stock Aristo VVTI GTE motor a bit and made like 390hp and just over 400ft/lbs. That is my goal for now, the stock turbos and Aristo transmission will live for a while with that and I won't have to upgrade much. I'd like to make as much power down low as possible since I don't plan much high rpm driving with an automatic.
Last edited by IISevv; 07-21-18 at 05:26 PM.
07-22-18, 12:25 AM
#12
The stock ceramic twins won’t make that power reliably. You’ll need to either upgrade to steel blades or go single. To save a few hundred dollars vs. steel turbines, it’s not worth the risk of pieces of ceramic chipping off and being sucked into your intake. As for the transmission, it’s very iffy. The Aristo auto is NOT the same as the Supra and there’s a very good chance you’ll burn up your clutches with that much power. Especially on a used unit with an unknown history. You’d want to rebuild it with additional and stronger clutches and steels, as well as upgrade the valve body or at least do a shift kit. Shimming the accumulators and adding a big cooler would also help.
I'll have to find the thread again and see what was done to it, that was a lot of reading ago.
07-22-18, 07:29 AM
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Most of the transmission parts are here: www.atfspeed.com.
Level 10 and IPT make the A340 clutch pack kits.
07-22-18, 04:46 PM
#14
The ceramic turbos can “make” that power, the issue is for how long. They can’t withstand much heat. To be completely honest, when you’re spending thousands of dollars on a GTE swap, a few hundred more to ensure reliability is nothing. You could even swap in a set of USDM steel-blade turbos.
Most of the transmission parts are here: www.atfspeed.com.
Level 10 and IPT make the A340 clutch pack kits.
07-22-18, 05:56 PM
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Is there much of a market for just the factory twin setup over here? If money were no object I'd rather buy the Aristo motor and transmission but ditch the factory twins and go single turbo from the start. I've just never been a fan of the ceramic turbos and would rather only build the car once and not risk destroying my engine. I'm also thinking about getting a pre VVTI short block and freshening it up going NA-T with it and my VVTI head. The extra oil lines aren't that big of a deal to run.
Instead of buying an older short block (unless it’s significantly cheaper than other options), use your block that you know will work and swap in either non-VVTI rods and pistons or buy aftermarket ones. You don’t need to buy the older block because it’s only the pistons and rods that are different.
Last edited by IISevv; 07-22-18 at 06:13 PM.