More control over your automatic transmission? (Theory behind AA80E madness)
02-10-17, 11:13 AM
#1
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More control over your automatic transmission? (Theory behind AA80E madness)
Alright so I started this thread in the ISF page to find out how the ISF's AA80E transmission functions and how it is a conventional automatic and yet it can up shift, blip downshift and keep the torque converter locked up during shifts and why it shifts so fast.
My quest was to find out how the AA80E control is done so it can be dissected and maybe used on different automatic transmissions. (Like for people who have opted to stay automatic or changed to a different automatic)
If anybody has any more info please chime and post you opinions to. (good or bad I dont care but as long as it it constructive to the thread)
Here is the link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...isf-do-it.html
My quest was to find out how the AA80E control is done so it can be dissected and maybe used on different automatic transmissions. (Like for people who have opted to stay automatic or changed to a different automatic)
If anybody has any more info please chime and post you opinions to. (good or bad I dont care but as long as it it constructive to the thread)
Here is the link: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...isf-do-it.html
02-11-17, 06:03 AM
#3
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No it is definitely not. This is what I said. "My quest was to find out how the AA80E "control" (key word here) is done so it can be dissected and maybe used on different automatic transmissions."
I want to find out how Lexus tuned this transmission to see how they were able to get it to operate in a manner where it allows you to shift quickly going up and down. But on top of that this is the first conventional transmission that they have been able to blip the throttle downshifting and not suffer from unwanted engine braking. On other vehicles when you downshift to a lower gear you get a lot of engine braking and then the wheels are what bring up the engine rpm and thats really jerky. The quest is to try and find the manner in which they tuned the transmission and what they changed.
I want to find out how Lexus tuned this transmission to see how they were able to get it to operate in a manner where it allows you to shift quickly going up and down. But on top of that this is the first conventional transmission that they have been able to blip the throttle downshifting and not suffer from unwanted engine braking. On other vehicles when you downshift to a lower gear you get a lot of engine braking and then the wheels are what bring up the engine rpm and thats really jerky. The quest is to try and find the manner in which they tuned the transmission and what they changed.
02-11-17, 06:02 PM
#4
Hmm. That is interesting. It can't be just software tuning though. The valve body design, shift solenoids and torque converter design all will play a part in this in addition to the electronic control logic. I am not sure the same techniques can be applied to a transmission like the 1JZ/2JZ-GTE-spec A340E 4-speed or the A650E 5-speed. An IS-F ECU would be needed to get to this data since automatic transmission control typically comes from the main engine ECU. The first route I would look into would be any flash tune outfit that has messed with any of the IS-F ECU's since they may have cracked it enough to download the shift logic code for examination and experimentation.
Aside, it's outside the scope of this thread but Garage Whifbitz in the UK has demonstrated adapting a Getrag/BMW 7-speed DCT to an MKIV Supra TT with full transmission control. Shifts are very fast and to my knowledge do not introduce any unwanted engine braking on downshifts. There is a youtube video demonstrating the application.
That said, the theory would be interesting to know but I still question whether or not the physical design of a particular automatic might also be part of what makes the AA80E notable.
Also, isn't the 6-speed automatic used in the FR-S/GT86/86/BRZ very closely related to the AA80E?
Aside, it's outside the scope of this thread but Garage Whifbitz in the UK has demonstrated adapting a Getrag/BMW 7-speed DCT to an MKIV Supra TT with full transmission control. Shifts are very fast and to my knowledge do not introduce any unwanted engine braking on downshifts. There is a youtube video demonstrating the application.
That said, the theory would be interesting to know but I still question whether or not the physical design of a particular automatic might also be part of what makes the AA80E notable.
Also, isn't the 6-speed automatic used in the FR-S/GT86/86/BRZ very closely related to the AA80E?
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-11-17 at 06:08 PM.
02-13-17, 10:31 AM
#5
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A960E 6 Speed Automatic Transmission
Applications:- 2006 GS 300
- 2007 IS 250
- 2008 Crown 2500CC
- 2012–present Toyota 86/Scion FR-S/Subaru Brz
KahnBB6 thank you for referencing this transmission cause I found this pdf. This transmission has regular shift solenoids unlike the linear isf shift solenoids. This proves that it is very much possible in your automatic transmissions. Keep in mind that the lockup converter plays a huge role in the matter. The A960E has some extra hydraulic solenoids and one being the brake pressure control which I have never seen before.
this is the pdf http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/...logs/A960E.pdf
Ive been looking at a lot of these and the ISF is the only one which linear shift solenoids. I am going to end up investigating all of the transmissions that are being used in the F sport line up with paddle shifting.
thanks again KahnBB6
02-13-17, 10:40 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Hmm. That is interesting. It can't be just software tuning though. The valve body design, shift solenoids and torque converter design all will play a part in this in addition to the electronic control logic. I am not sure the same techniques can be applied to a transmission like the 1JZ/2JZ-GTE-spec A340E 4-speed or the A650E 5-speed. An IS-F ECU would be needed to get to this data since automatic transmission control typically comes from the main engine ECU. The first route I would look into would be any flash tune outfit that has messed with any of the IS-F ECU's since they may have cracked it enough to download the shift logic code for examination and experimentation.
Aside, it's outside the scope of this thread but Garage Whifbitz in the UK has demonstrated adapting a Getrag/BMW 7-speed DCT to an MKIV Supra TT with full transmission control. Shifts are very fast and to my knowledge do not introduce any unwanted engine braking on downshifts. There is a youtube video demonstrating the application.
That said, the theory would be interesting to know but I still question whether or not the physical design of a particular automatic might also be part of what makes the AA80E notable.
Also, isn't the 6-speed automatic used in the FR-S/GT86/86/BRZ very closely related to the AA80E?
Aside, it's outside the scope of this thread but Garage Whifbitz in the UK has demonstrated adapting a Getrag/BMW 7-speed DCT to an MKIV Supra TT with full transmission control. Shifts are very fast and to my knowledge do not introduce any unwanted engine braking on downshifts. There is a youtube video demonstrating the application.
That said, the theory would be interesting to know but I still question whether or not the physical design of a particular automatic might also be part of what makes the AA80E notable.
Also, isn't the 6-speed automatic used in the FR-S/GT86/86/BRZ very closely related to the AA80E?
02-13-17, 05:09 PM
#7
I wasn't aware that the FR-S (et al) 6-speed automatic was a transmission that had already existed. It sounds like it may fare better in that vehicle due to the very low weight and low torque of the engine compared to everything else it was used in. I've driven an FR-S with the automatic and I found it to be decent and generally cooperative in manual shift mode but not as good as a VW DCT or possibly the IS-F 8-speed. I do wonder if the issues you might have heard of are due to it being overstressed when installed into significantly heavier and torquier vehicles.
On the A340E not being able to handle some of these newer automatic technologies, I'm not entirely surprised considering the era in which they were designed (originally late 80's). The clutch packs can be upgraded to a point and there are different torque convertors available for them but not like the IS-F's full lockup torque convertor. Unless there is something I am not aware of. Now for power holding I know they can be pushed. For paddle shift control I know such a modification exists for the stronger 1JZ/2JZ-GTE A340E's in the form of the "AutoStick" system and something else I saw demonstrated on an MKIV Supra TT Automatic. Other names that come up with this are Syvecs for A340E full control and such a system is available with MS2 standalone ECUs. Other standalone ECUs may also offer this auto transmission control feature.
However some of the fundamental operational limitations inherent in the design of the A340E still remain even after some upgrades.
I am not aware of what can or can't be done with the A650E in terms of strengthening and additional control. It is factory rated for just above 300hp. Tellingly, IS300 Automatic owners going with turbos generally hold their power on them up to a point. Also, those IS300 Automatics have from the factory a very early steering wheel mounted Up/Down shifting control system. While that A650E steering wheel mounted shift button system isn't a standout it's more than the earlier A340E's came with (although as mentioned you can sort of add something similar to the A340E's now).
The A-series four speed automatic found in 2JZ-GE Lexus vehicles and the Supra Non-Turbos are reportedly not exactly the same or as strong as the GTE-spec A340's.
I realize your thread isn't really about how much power one of these transmissions can hold but thought I'd mention it to note.
On the A340E not being able to handle some of these newer automatic technologies, I'm not entirely surprised considering the era in which they were designed (originally late 80's). The clutch packs can be upgraded to a point and there are different torque convertors available for them but not like the IS-F's full lockup torque convertor. Unless there is something I am not aware of. Now for power holding I know they can be pushed. For paddle shift control I know such a modification exists for the stronger 1JZ/2JZ-GTE A340E's in the form of the "AutoStick" system and something else I saw demonstrated on an MKIV Supra TT Automatic. Other names that come up with this are Syvecs for A340E full control and such a system is available with MS2 standalone ECUs. Other standalone ECUs may also offer this auto transmission control feature.
However some of the fundamental operational limitations inherent in the design of the A340E still remain even after some upgrades.
I am not aware of what can or can't be done with the A650E in terms of strengthening and additional control. It is factory rated for just above 300hp. Tellingly, IS300 Automatic owners going with turbos generally hold their power on them up to a point. Also, those IS300 Automatics have from the factory a very early steering wheel mounted Up/Down shifting control system. While that A650E steering wheel mounted shift button system isn't a standout it's more than the earlier A340E's came with (although as mentioned you can sort of add something similar to the A340E's now).
The A-series four speed automatic found in 2JZ-GE Lexus vehicles and the Supra Non-Turbos are reportedly not exactly the same or as strong as the GTE-spec A340's.
I realize your thread isn't really about how much power one of these transmissions can hold but thought I'd mention it to note.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-13-17 at 05:18 PM.
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02-13-17, 08:37 PM
#8
I am not aware of what can or can't be done with the A650E in terms of strengthening and additional control. It is factory rated for just above 300hp. Tellingly, IS300 Automatic owners going with turbos generally hold their power on them up to a point. Also, those IS300 Automatics have from the factory a very early steering wheel mounted Up/Down shifting control system. While that A650E steering wheel mounted shift button system isn't a standout it's more than the earlier A340E's came with (although as mentioned you can sort of add something similar to the A340E's now).
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...ml#post9499508
I do know that all 2Z and 1U ECU's support E-shift and it's a simple matter of running 3 wires to the ECU:
1) For switching to manual mode
2) For the shift up
3) For the shift down
1) For switching to manual mode
2) For the shift up
3) For the shift down
02-14-17, 12:24 AM
#9
Manual control of a Toyota A340E or A650E with paddles or buttons can come in handy in the right application. A handful of videos on youtube demonstrate how this modification is applied in Supras and a few SC's. Also look at how it's applied from the factory in the FR-S.
Now one thing that isn't clear to me is how such control lines up against the AA80E's stock features that eefmydee mentioned as found in the IS-F and RC-F. The shifts are very fast in that transmission although in reviews I've still gathered some complaint about how quickly it figures out what gear to put itself into on its own. Gaining full manual "SupraStick" or steering wheel paddle control seems to be a more popular modification with the older 4-speeds.
Now one thing that isn't clear to me is how such control lines up against the AA80E's stock features that eefmydee mentioned as found in the IS-F and RC-F. The shifts are very fast in that transmission although in reviews I've still gathered some complaint about how quickly it figures out what gear to put itself into on its own. Gaining full manual "SupraStick" or steering wheel paddle control seems to be a more popular modification with the older 4-speeds.
02-15-17, 02:31 PM
#10
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To start off on the A960E, apparently you need to stay on the maintenance. Flush fluid on every 30,000 miles is the service interval. And yea I was thinking the same thing about how the FRS is way lighter and has a lot less torque than the other engines.
In reference to the torque converters, There is a company called FTI in Deland Florida that makes a triple disc lockup torque converter for the A340E. This is the link http://ftiperformance.com/product/to...isk-lock-a340/
I was speaking with this company to see if they could make an A650E version. I was emailing them and I sent them dimensions of the torque converter and stock for stock the torque converter are identical on the outside (referring to a340e) but the splines for the input shaft are different. I was wondering if they could just use the internals of A340E with the splines of the A650E and they seemed very very positive but I would have to drop off a torque converter so they can play it. (Obviously this torque converter from FTI can do full lockup under wot)
Another company that modifies torque converters that claimed they could make the torque converters be able to lock up all the time and under WOT is Level10. The price is way cheaper but the details are important. They double the size of the clutch liner, they use a different clutch liner and this is all used with a billet actuator piston to lockup the torque converter but it is still only 1 clutch liner and not three like FTI's. This to me is worrisome. I have called many companys and they dont really have faith in a single clutch lockup under wot (especially with increased power). Level10 claims they have tested the torque converter under these conditions and have never had customers complain that the torque converter clutch failed. but im still skeptical on that.
Please give those torque converter companys a look.
The better version of the A340E is the A341E which I heard the great US of A did not get. I believe this came in the TT supra. Also in general I have seen that toyota/lexus tends to beef up all the transmissions when they are bolted up to a v8 engine. The a650e in the is300 and the a650e in the gs400 and sc430 are different when concerning being beefed up (this is do to the fact that the v8's make more torque). What exactly I am not aware but I see it stated a lot.
So far I have heard that these are some good products to control your auto transmission: Suprastick, PCM solutions, Megashift, TCI and Spitronics.
Also this company called power dynamics has a fully built option for the A650E that is priced at $2000 (cheaper than any manual swap at any point in the week). Here is the link: http://powerdynamix.com/store#!/Full...tegory=5548271 As you see they are holding almost 800lbft of torque.
Level10 also has a built version for the A650E: http://www.levelten.com/Level_10_Toy...1800-5000s.htm $4000
For anyone reading this please keep this in mind what I am about to say next:
1) I have been spending a lot time into this automatic transmission business because I feel that it has not really been explored. A few people have done it but not many people see this as an option. (Manual = Real man vs. Automatic = Automatically a ***** that cant drive) Thats the logic!
2) If someone (probably me) figures out a general guideline for how to tune these transmissions so that you can ***rev-match downshift*** (obviously you would need fly by wire throttle body or other means for the throttle blip) that would be ground breaking for all of the people who have opted to stay automatic or find the money to reward to be horrible for manual swaps.
3) Staying automatic would be cheaper and compared to the the toyota manuals that can fit, it is easier to put money into these automatics and they hold more power reliably. (W58 cough cough)
4) There is a lot more support form different people for these automatics. FTI, Level10, PowerDynamix, IPT, etc.
5) Keep in mind some of these people sell the exact same kit they are gonna put into your transmission. That way if you are ballsy are savy enough you can take your own tranny apart and change the clutches and other things that you need to hold more power. I saw them from $500-700. Sounds good? You can find things all day to increase power holding capacity.
6) the only thing I have seen break is (in A340E) 2nd gear sprag (a650E) third gear sprag. after that its all up hill.
I ask that whoever is reading this please look into it and please help support this because this could be benefit all toyota and lexus guys.
In reference to the torque converters, There is a company called FTI in Deland Florida that makes a triple disc lockup torque converter for the A340E. This is the link http://ftiperformance.com/product/to...isk-lock-a340/
I was speaking with this company to see if they could make an A650E version. I was emailing them and I sent them dimensions of the torque converter and stock for stock the torque converter are identical on the outside (referring to a340e) but the splines for the input shaft are different. I was wondering if they could just use the internals of A340E with the splines of the A650E and they seemed very very positive but I would have to drop off a torque converter so they can play it. (Obviously this torque converter from FTI can do full lockup under wot)
Another company that modifies torque converters that claimed they could make the torque converters be able to lock up all the time and under WOT is Level10. The price is way cheaper but the details are important. They double the size of the clutch liner, they use a different clutch liner and this is all used with a billet actuator piston to lockup the torque converter but it is still only 1 clutch liner and not three like FTI's. This to me is worrisome. I have called many companys and they dont really have faith in a single clutch lockup under wot (especially with increased power). Level10 claims they have tested the torque converter under these conditions and have never had customers complain that the torque converter clutch failed. but im still skeptical on that.
Please give those torque converter companys a look.
The better version of the A340E is the A341E which I heard the great US of A did not get. I believe this came in the TT supra. Also in general I have seen that toyota/lexus tends to beef up all the transmissions when they are bolted up to a v8 engine. The a650e in the is300 and the a650e in the gs400 and sc430 are different when concerning being beefed up (this is do to the fact that the v8's make more torque). What exactly I am not aware but I see it stated a lot.
So far I have heard that these are some good products to control your auto transmission: Suprastick, PCM solutions, Megashift, TCI and Spitronics.
Also this company called power dynamics has a fully built option for the A650E that is priced at $2000 (cheaper than any manual swap at any point in the week). Here is the link: http://powerdynamix.com/store#!/Full...tegory=5548271 As you see they are holding almost 800lbft of torque.
Level10 also has a built version for the A650E: http://www.levelten.com/Level_10_Toy...1800-5000s.htm $4000
For anyone reading this please keep this in mind what I am about to say next:
1) I have been spending a lot time into this automatic transmission business because I feel that it has not really been explored. A few people have done it but not many people see this as an option. (Manual = Real man vs. Automatic = Automatically a ***** that cant drive) Thats the logic!
2) If someone (probably me) figures out a general guideline for how to tune these transmissions so that you can ***rev-match downshift*** (obviously you would need fly by wire throttle body or other means for the throttle blip) that would be ground breaking for all of the people who have opted to stay automatic or find the money to reward to be horrible for manual swaps.
3) Staying automatic would be cheaper and compared to the the toyota manuals that can fit, it is easier to put money into these automatics and they hold more power reliably. (W58 cough cough)
4) There is a lot more support form different people for these automatics. FTI, Level10, PowerDynamix, IPT, etc.
5) Keep in mind some of these people sell the exact same kit they are gonna put into your transmission. That way if you are ballsy are savy enough you can take your own tranny apart and change the clutches and other things that you need to hold more power. I saw them from $500-700. Sounds good? You can find things all day to increase power holding capacity.
6) the only thing I have seen break is (in A340E) 2nd gear sprag (a650E) third gear sprag. after that its all up hill.
I ask that whoever is reading this please look into it and please help support this because this could be benefit all toyota and lexus guys.
02-15-17, 07:19 PM
#11
I have known about Level10's reputation upgrading various automatic transmissions for many years. They were the #1 such company mentioned for import automatic transmissions in the early 2000's and it appears they are still going strong.
There is also another company that at least has experience with the A340E and that should be "ATF". Gerrb has used them for nearly all of his SC's equipped with A340E's. They may also work on the A650E but I am not sure. The upgrades and labor performed however are pricey as you have noted. Also, I believe Gerrb doesn't rate his built A340E's higher than perhaps 700hp as a conservative number. Maybe it was 800hp which would be in-line with the other company you mentioned. I've seen him mention what the recommended maximum power holding is with his built ATF 4-speeds but I can't recall the exact number suffice to say it's not as high as with a V160 M/T, Tremec Magnum M/T and possibly (but I could be wrong) a fully built R154 that tops out at 700whp or so. Nonetheless, built A340E's can still handle quite a lot of power, considering.
I agree that some progress in terms of finding more common solutions to making better use of the two most common automatics in SC's. Full manual control (sometimes with steering wheel mounted paddles) is welcome and having a path to upgrading for more reliable power holding is very good too.
Aside from very specific and personal reasons that someone might have for staying with an automatic and possibly extreme power holding I feel the Auto vs Manual debate just comes down to preference. I picked up my SC300 because it was manual from the factory. No matter what model of car or even SUV I found to buy it was going to be manual or nothing at all. It wasn't even a matter of how good or bad the manual transmission in the vehicle was. No three pedals... not interested. For me shifting speed isn't even what I am interested in. Current modern automatic transmissions and DCT's are faster than nearly all manual transmissions ever can be with the best operator but I don't see that as the point to their appeal.
The steel plate W58 5-speed gearbox isn't a good boost-friendly gearbox but it is just fine and reliable for an NA 2JZ-GE or stock early 1UZ-FE if you love the act of shifting most of all. It's a very good manual transmission, just not good for every single engine application. For high power or boost applications there are other good gearbox options. Its the inferior W55 version that is the one that makes little sense in a 2JZ vehicle or even a 1UZ manual swap vehicle.
However I think it comes down to whether or not the appeal of a manual transmission is greater than all other considerations. They aren't ideal for everyone or desired by everyone. 90's Toyota/Lexus automatic transmissions are generally considered very reliable and durable over the long haul compared to those used in some other marques. There are plenty of good reasons to want an automatic in your vehicle or make the automatic it comes with stronger and more controllable with better features. I'd love to see some more good ideas applied to these automatic transmissions
Shift logic control is a big one in my opinion, not just for the A340E but even with the A650E which I have also not found to be very intuitive or quick to understand what is being asked of it (in a stock V8 Lexus equipped with it).
To my knowledge, only when you go beyond 800whp or so do the common JZ/UZ Toyota automatic designs become a limiting factor. It's not everyone who has an 800whp+ SC, MKIV, IS or GS.
There is also another company that at least has experience with the A340E and that should be "ATF". Gerrb has used them for nearly all of his SC's equipped with A340E's. They may also work on the A650E but I am not sure. The upgrades and labor performed however are pricey as you have noted. Also, I believe Gerrb doesn't rate his built A340E's higher than perhaps 700hp as a conservative number. Maybe it was 800hp which would be in-line with the other company you mentioned. I've seen him mention what the recommended maximum power holding is with his built ATF 4-speeds but I can't recall the exact number suffice to say it's not as high as with a V160 M/T, Tremec Magnum M/T and possibly (but I could be wrong) a fully built R154 that tops out at 700whp or so. Nonetheless, built A340E's can still handle quite a lot of power, considering.
I agree that some progress in terms of finding more common solutions to making better use of the two most common automatics in SC's. Full manual control (sometimes with steering wheel mounted paddles) is welcome and having a path to upgrading for more reliable power holding is very good too.
Aside from very specific and personal reasons that someone might have for staying with an automatic and possibly extreme power holding I feel the Auto vs Manual debate just comes down to preference. I picked up my SC300 because it was manual from the factory. No matter what model of car or even SUV I found to buy it was going to be manual or nothing at all. It wasn't even a matter of how good or bad the manual transmission in the vehicle was. No three pedals... not interested. For me shifting speed isn't even what I am interested in. Current modern automatic transmissions and DCT's are faster than nearly all manual transmissions ever can be with the best operator but I don't see that as the point to their appeal.
The steel plate W58 5-speed gearbox isn't a good boost-friendly gearbox but it is just fine and reliable for an NA 2JZ-GE or stock early 1UZ-FE if you love the act of shifting most of all. It's a very good manual transmission, just not good for every single engine application. For high power or boost applications there are other good gearbox options. Its the inferior W55 version that is the one that makes little sense in a 2JZ vehicle or even a 1UZ manual swap vehicle.
However I think it comes down to whether or not the appeal of a manual transmission is greater than all other considerations. They aren't ideal for everyone or desired by everyone. 90's Toyota/Lexus automatic transmissions are generally considered very reliable and durable over the long haul compared to those used in some other marques. There are plenty of good reasons to want an automatic in your vehicle or make the automatic it comes with stronger and more controllable with better features. I'd love to see some more good ideas applied to these automatic transmissions
Shift logic control is a big one in my opinion, not just for the A340E but even with the A650E which I have also not found to be very intuitive or quick to understand what is being asked of it (in a stock V8 Lexus equipped with it).To my knowledge, only when you go beyond 800whp or so do the common JZ/UZ Toyota automatic designs become a limiting factor. It's not everyone who has an 800whp+ SC, MKIV, IS or GS.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-15-17 at 07:36 PM.
02-16-17, 12:25 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
yea i forgot to mention ATF, here is the baltic supra that they built the tranny and made a record for: https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=2WKFuXlQkK0
There is a guy ive spoken to that he is making 600hp on the a340e using pcm solutions to control the a340e. he did build it 3 years ago and he says it hasnt had any hick-ups every since he installed the tranny back in (with a dragon converter).
Just a heads up to what im planning to do. im putting another auto in the sc400 of mine and total price is coming a little more than $1000 (this includes shift buttons, tranny and controller). If I test out my theory here with what im going to put together and it works the $1000 price tag is not bad at all. I will shed more details later but I will have an extensive write up and videos when I do.
I also totally forgot about shift logic. I have not checked out there products yet. Any good or bad news about them or potential problems.
Speaking of potential problems lets not forget that all these automatics need a "tune". Anybody got any maps or shift tables for there auto tranny? any it doesnt matter? I dont see much support for teaching people how to program trannys so any info here is good.
There is a guy ive spoken to that he is making 600hp on the a340e using pcm solutions to control the a340e. he did build it 3 years ago and he says it hasnt had any hick-ups every since he installed the tranny back in (with a dragon converter).
Just a heads up to what im planning to do. im putting another auto in the sc400 of mine and total price is coming a little more than $1000 (this includes shift buttons, tranny and controller). If I test out my theory here with what im going to put together and it works the $1000 price tag is not bad at all. I will shed more details later but I will have an extensive write up and videos when I do.
I also totally forgot about shift logic. I have not checked out there products yet. Any good or bad news about them or potential problems.
Speaking of potential problems lets not forget that all these automatics need a "tune". Anybody got any maps or shift tables for there auto tranny? any it doesnt matter? I dont see much support for teaching people how to program trannys so any info here is good.
02-17-17, 12:37 AM
#13
Just to be clear, I meant shift logic in the general sense. I don't know of a company called "Shift Logic". If a company with such a name exists then it is new to me. I just meant that a standalone transmission controller that has fully programmable shift logic for an A340 or A650 would be ideal over the programming in the stock ECUs.
And it does sound like you are taking that route with your build (standalone trans controller).
I am not up to speed on maps and shift tables for our transmissions or how much that matters. I never got the impression that it was greatly explored with these vehicles but I could be wrong. The hardware modifications are what I have heard the most about and then controller kits like SupraStick, Syvecs, etc a bit less so.
And it does sound like you are taking that route with your build (standalone trans controller).
I am not up to speed on maps and shift tables for our transmissions or how much that matters. I never got the impression that it was greatly explored with these vehicles but I could be wrong. The hardware modifications are what I have heard the most about and then controller kits like SupraStick, Syvecs, etc a bit less so.
02-17-17, 01:20 PM
#14
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I see more support now for automatics and tuning them. If you ever take a look at TCI they have a lot of support. Also if you started looking into Transmissions that people use for a drag racing there is a lot of people that deal with shift tables and transmission upgrades. It's impressive how many things I find when concerning modifying automatic transmissions but no one has really modified automatic transmissions for this specific purpose but I have no doubt it can be done. The resources to make these Transmissions hold more power and shift quicker is there but like I said before I think the main key is control and tune when concerning this application.
02-17-17, 03:56 PM
#15
I have pushed one of the ATF Built A340 to 920rwhp / 760ft lbs of torque on the dyno and it is still in good shape. I was always told by ATF to not push it beyond 850rwhp but I wanted to see it's limit so I have been using them with 3 big tranny fluid coolers with fans since heat is what kills the auto trans. OD is always off on my trans. I have 3 of these transmissions and so far no failures . Your weak link on these trans will be your input shaft once you are on the power level I am pushing them .
The EShift or those IS250/IS300/IS350 with up , down , paddle shifters .. are not gear shifters even if you put the trans on (M)anual Mode as far as I know. They are mearly top gear limiters . Not like on a real Manual trans when I am on 2nd Gear and I shift it to 5th gear .. then you know it is on 5th gear . The eshift is basically telling the computer .. I am right now on 2nd Gear if I press up or right paddle shifter 3 times .. I am telling the computer , allow the trans to go UP TO 5th gear ..at the moment you eshifted.. it stays on 2nd gear , then if you speed up it goes 3rd , 4th till 5th.. you don't speed up it stays 2nd even if you eshifted to 5th.
The Aristo 2JZGTE VVTi transmission has the E-shift capability when in Manual Mode which I am implementing on one of my friend's car and that of my APTech Wide Body Project Car using a Lexus Steering wheel with paddle shifters. The A650 for the 2002-2005 GS300 and other models basically have functionality but I believe are weaker internally that is why they are on non boosted engine. Like .. a local friend had a 2003 GS300 transmission ... it failed , after going through the wiring diagrams of the aristo 2jzgte vvti TT trans and the 2003 GS300 trans , they basically have same wiring diagram .. so wiring and connector pin locations are same. I told him to install that of the 2jzgte vvti TT trans .. it works flawless. The extra speed on the A650 isn't inside the transmission but controlled by the shift lock control ECU and the main engine ECU.
The EShift or those IS250/IS300/IS350 with up , down , paddle shifters .. are not gear shifters even if you put the trans on (M)anual Mode as far as I know. They are mearly top gear limiters . Not like on a real Manual trans when I am on 2nd Gear and I shift it to 5th gear .. then you know it is on 5th gear . The eshift is basically telling the computer .. I am right now on 2nd Gear if I press up or right paddle shifter 3 times .. I am telling the computer , allow the trans to go UP TO 5th gear ..at the moment you eshifted.. it stays on 2nd gear , then if you speed up it goes 3rd , 4th till 5th.. you don't speed up it stays 2nd even if you eshifted to 5th.
The Aristo 2JZGTE VVTi transmission has the E-shift capability when in Manual Mode which I am implementing on one of my friend's car and that of my APTech Wide Body Project Car using a Lexus Steering wheel with paddle shifters. The A650 for the 2002-2005 GS300 and other models basically have functionality but I believe are weaker internally that is why they are on non boosted engine. Like .. a local friend had a 2003 GS300 transmission ... it failed , after going through the wiring diagrams of the aristo 2jzgte vvti TT trans and the 2003 GS300 trans , they basically have same wiring diagram .. so wiring and connector pin locations are same. I told him to install that of the 2jzgte vvti TT trans .. it works flawless. The extra speed on the A650 isn't inside the transmission but controlled by the shift lock control ECU and the main engine ECU.
Last edited by gerrb; 02-17-17 at 04:11 PM.