Jok3r

Thanks Ali. Very informative. Unfortunately it looks like front sump aristo motors are far more common to buy online than NA gs300 motors.
If I go that route i would need the aem infinity 6 for the vvti correct? Also in the post above it seems like the Aristo TT came with a distributor? Or are they all coil pack style?

SUPRMSC

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Ali for the comprehensive response, it confirms much of what I hoped, and it looks like I'll be adding up the parts very soon. One last question, is the map sensor even needed if I simply plug the TT ECU with my existing NA ECU that has the MAP ECU installed?

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Yeah it seems harder and harder to find non vvti ge engine in good shape. since the vvti ones have the weak pistons its really a bummer.
A gte swap would probably look cleaner in there and save alot of time. I think you can run it with the v2 or newer. you might need to make a jumper harness depending on what plug the ecu has and what harness you are using.
If you need a longer harness than the JDM one, you can try using a vvti sc300 harness. its one of the few vvti harnesses that run into the cab for the ecu. the IS and GS ones end in the engine bay and don't go through the firewall like the SC.

You won't need the map sensor, but you will need to change:
1) settings on the map ecu to map sensor, and the scaling of the fuel map for the aristo is a good place to start
2) the output wire to the ecu, you need to use the map sensor output wire as it is a different wire than the karman maf output wire
3) the map output wire needs to go to the map pin at the ecu B62. The maf wire output went to the maf spot is B66, simply unplug and electrical tape that up if you ever need to use the na ecu again.

So your NA ecu uses a maf, and the map ecu is using a map sensor to put out a maf signal to the ecu in this case. This is wired up using the map ecu MAF output wire to the stock ecu MAF pin. the stock ecu still thinks there is a maf.
The TT ecu uses a map sensor, so in this case the map ecu is using a map sensor to output a map signal to the ecu. This is wired up using the map ecu MAP output wire to the stock ecu MAP pin. the tt ecu thinks this is the stock map sensor.

these diagrams might help, notice the blue output wire vs the green output wire and how they have different pins on the map ecu.
This is what your setup currently looks like with the 2jzge maf, and the blue KS is the karman maf output signal from the map ecu.



This is what it should look like with a aristo tt ecu non vvti, and the green PIM is the Pressure (MAP) output signal from the map ecu.



I will add one note about the map ecu and not having the stock map sensor. sometimes it can be tricky to get the map values in the map ecu software all dialed in and adjusted to mimick the map sensor.
I tried using the aristo files in there and sometimes they work and sometimes they need tweaking. at my elevation it needed tweaking. at sea level it should work alot better.
So if you have a stock map sensor, you can actually connect it in the "learn" mode on the map ecu, where it records what the stock map sensor is seeing and builds a map.
I would do that and then fill in all the blanks so it would be smooth, and that is how I got the best basemap on my map ecu when I used it. Once its good you can pull the stock map sensor.

That was on a v1, it may be better on the newer ones. My issues with altitude is you can set the parameter for what the map sensor reads with key on engine off in the map ecu, but it is static, does not change.
So when you go to different altitudes, that is how the stock ecu compensates is by reading the map sensor before the engine is on to get the ambient pressure. think of it like a skew.
Since the map ecu is always feeding the same value to the stock ecu before startup, it thinks you are always at the same altitude and will not adjust.
I had to adjust my whole map to compensate for being a mile high in denver, which was a pain. I want to say the newer versions of the map ecu picked up on this and are able to compensate for that.
If you are at sea level you should be fine, but I wouldn't try and drive up pikes peak with a map ecu v1 is what I am getting at.

also if you are using 440cc injectors and just using the map ecu to avoid buying a stock map sensor, trust me and just get a stock map sensor.
the map ecu will never run as well as the stock ecu does on the stock map sensor.
Now if you are going 550cc injectors and need to use the map ecu, then yeah go for it, it will run as well as everyone elses does which is good but not as good as the completely stock setup.

Either way it will definitely be better than using the stock na ecu, but personally I would use the stock map sensor and then a simple safc for trimming.
It is cheap, will drive better and still adjust for altitude. if you want to reuse your map ecu it is possible but its not the most straight forward piece of software.

Polarisman

Not entirely sure what I am running...whatever was included with the kit. It is definitely 1/8npt on one side and either -3 or -4 on the other (90° fitting). I think with the heat tubing I will run on my drain line I can just run the 15° angle and a sweeping curve from the turbo drain to the oil return on the block. Return line included seems perfectly sized length wise.

Any insight on the fuel damper elimination?

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

You should be able to tell the difference between a 3an line and a 4an line, so try and figure out what you have.

Why are you even doing the fuel damper elimination? you don't need it for 440 or 550cc injectors generally unless you are running new lines.
literally the only things you need to do fuel wise for that setup is 440cc injectors and arguably a higher flow fuel pump.
This doesn't have to do specifically with na-t and IT should come with instructions. do a search there are a bunch of threads with info on this.
If you do it badly and it leaks you can burn your car down and it can happen real fast, have heard of at least 2 SC's personally that were lost to leaking fuel.

Also any line with a banjo fitting like the stock fuel line will have a crush washer on both sides that should be replaced each time they are used.
Just mentioning that cause if you crack open the stock line when removing the intake you should be sure its leak free when it goes back or whatever line you install.

And supra fuel filters and SC fuel filters are not in the same location, so you also have to have the right kit.
The mk4 supra line kit probably will not work on a SC, the fuel filter on the SC is towards the rear of the vehicle and on the supra its up front towards the engine bay.
This is important since the dampener bypass line goes from the fuel filter to the engine, so it will probably be rather short.
I would just return/sell it and use the stock line personally.

Also I am not going to be telling anyone how to install a power steering hose either, its not na-t related and I am sure you can figure it out if you look at it for a few minutes.

Polarisman

I found the how to threads on the PS line, so no issues there. I only posted on here about the damper line as I already searched a few terms through google for it and didn't get anywhere with it. I spoke with Aaron at driftmotion when I bought those lines so I definitely have the right lines and fittings along with new crush washers. My local tuner and resident 2j guy suggested I do the elimination and the AEM 320lph pump given my eventual 600+ whp goals. I agree, not necessary for basic 300whp na-t builds, but while I'm in there I may as well. Already have and have been using line sealant where necessary in hopes of avoiding leaks.

The other next step which does pertain to some na-t builds is what to do with vacuum lines after eliminating egr and egr canister under the im. I'm assuming I need a boost only WG source, and boost/vacuum sources for MAP Sensor, bov, vsv, charcoal canister (with one way valve), pcv vent to intake, and perhaps a couple others (not much since 2 PS ones have been eliminated on my setup). Any insight as usual is much appreciated.

EDIT: Gunnar made something in his build thread about it at one point and it really clarifies everything. Look for his post if you want more information. Sucks, because it means I have to remove my intake manifold again to gain easier access to it, but it'll be worth doing that to access the fuel line and the hard lines for the IM, etc. It's either that or a ton of swearing.

Oh, and my oil line is 3an. Found a chart online that shows 3an fittings to have an ID of .12" and 4an as .17". So it seems I'm set there as well.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

The canister under the intake is for the ACIS intake butterfly, that you will be bypassing so you can remove the canister.
Alot of the hard lines can go due to removing EGR and ACIS, and removing the Y section of the intake will help get access to underneath where those hard lines are bolted to.
You probably do not need to pull the whole upper intake manifold, just the Y pipe section and then you can get to injectors etc.. but it will make it easier to remove the canister etc.. if you do remove the upper IM.

the vacuum lines are very straight forward, but do have a plan for the charcoal canister, it vents to the intake manifold via a check valve and ported port on top of the throttle body, and also by a vsv commanded by the ecu that goes to the intake.
If you want it to vent like stock, it will be tricky since it uses the same bunch of hardlines that are welded together.
alot of people do not connect it to the engine and find another way to vent it which isn't exactly the right way to do it and gives alot of gas smell in your garage, but it works. some also throw in a clear fuel filter on the vent line to help with the smells.

another way is to replicate the routing of the hardlines using vacuum lines, just for the charcoal canister if you want it to work like stock (gte ecu will control it). I have done it but haven't really seen anyone else do it.
You will want to make sure and keep the little check valve sitting under the Y in the loop, its a plastic blue/white thing with 2 vac nipples, and it helps keep boost out of the charcoal system (There is another check valve on the canister itself also).
Don't throw it away with the hardlines, be sure to take it off and save it, they are handy for when you need a check valve on something.

If you can connect your wastegate to your turbo housing cover that would be the best way instead of running it to the engine, it will be more consistent and less chance for overboosting.
If you can't or don't want to do that then run it to the intake manifold. Do not use any ports on the top of the throttle body for any of this stuff, they are only supossed to be used for egr, evap, etc.. as they are each ported in a specific way and some won't see full vacuum at idle and others wont see once you are on the throttle.

When in doubt on the vac lines consult the sticker under the hood, its hard to read sometimes but it does say where each line needs to go stock, and I have used it to put everything back to stock before and its pretty much spot on.

You don't need the power steering vacuum hoses, just remove it and if your switch isn't leaking just cap it off. if your switch it leaking (thing on pump the vac barbs come out of), then remove it and replace it with a bolt, I think it's some large metric thread can't remember. You can reuse this large barb on the intake for a boost/vacuum spot, but I wouldn't use it for the map sensor. It makes a good source for the BOV though.

Polarisman

Why not use the PS vacuum for the map? Its dedicated and larger than the other ports. Just curious, not trying to be argumentative.

My compressor cover is out getting welded right now, but I'll tap it for my WG reference line when it comes back. I plan on using the charcoal canister and check valve as you suggested. My starion had the charcoal canister deleted and it wreaked of gas especially on hot days...not doing that again. It seems like there are the enough ports to route the essentials and block off the ones on the top of the tb. Can't wait to get this set up this weekend! Thanks!

Matt

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

The reasoning is that the PS vac nipple is such a large diameter, the volume in the line to the map sensor will take longer to react to vacuum/boost changes in the intake manifold.
That is the reason the map sensor and the fuel pressure regulator always use those very narrow vacuum lines, and are never more than a few inches from the intakes manifold on factory setups.
The smaller the line and the closer to the intake manifold, the faster it will react to changes. think throttle blips or quick transitions in and out of boost, a lagging map sensor will cause an engine stumble.

The PS vac nipple is actually to let more air into the engine to idle up slightly, which is why it is so large.
In my experience, it effects the map sensor signal slightly when you turn the wheel and it lets more air in, and it is generally unnecessary if your car is idling correctly.
you might have a 50-100rpm dip when you turn the steering wheel at a full stop lock to lock (like parallel parking maybe), but at least you wont have a semi-controlled intake leak whenever you turn the wheel.

Yeah there are generally enough ports, there is even an extra one in the back that is plugged that the JDM GE motors use for the map sensor, but it has a different thread fitting can't remember.
I think the port on the top of the throttle body that is used for the evap and charcoal canister is the one labeled P for purge, but check the vac diagrams on the hood and make sure. the one for egr can be blocked off.

Polarisman

Sweet, thanks for shedding some light on everything. I'll make sure to put the MAP sensor on the firewall as close as possible to the IM port I am using.

Polarisman

Made a bunch more progress today. The fuel pulsation damper bypass line has been installed along with the power steering line, acis canister removed along with all superfluous vacuum lines. I utilized the stock PS hard line and im port for the bov as you suggested. The MAP sensor is mounted right next to the fuel pressure regulator so the vacuum line for it is only a few inches long. Once I get my tb back from getting welded I can sort out the rest of the vacuum lines.

Do I have to do anything with the harnesses that were going to the vsvs near the canister? There were two. As of now the valves themselves are not in the,car and the harnesses are just out of the way.

Starting in on the wiring stuff tomorrow...enough putting it off!

Polarisman

Made some additional headway today. I disassembled the harness on the exhaust side to pull the MAP wires back through, since it is mounted to my im right next to the FPR. Then, I cut the "extra" brown ground wire there and spliced it into the known good brown sensor ground wire in the maf bundle and ran that and the IAT signal wire over near the TB, where my IAT sensor will be. Also got all the wires from the old igniter swapped to the new one. The wire colors didn't match the diagram, so I went off pin designators and hopefully its right. Identified C n the old igniter as the coil wire and left that out. Figured B on the old was B+ on the new, T to IGT, F to IGF, and EXT to TACH on the new igniter. Can someone confirm this is correct? I used a nearby bolt as the chassis ground for the igniter, that went into the shock tower. Hopefully this is also sufficient.

Picture from my minor aneurism knee deep in wiring earlier:

japsc85

Just got her running this is how she currently sits XS power kit my question is at the moment I am using a Afc to control fuelIs it normal to have to pull so much fuel on stock injectors and pump . The car runs so rich .i have done a TT head gasket.. I do plan on doing the ECUtt mod within the month .

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Polaris, you can leave the vsv wires hanging out, just tuck them away where they wont melt etc.. The wiring sounds correct as far as I can tell, just make sure the ground is a good ground.. if having issues go to the battery negative its right next to the ignitor spot.

Japsc85, there are too many things I see wrong with your picture to list them all out, but yeah the way you have it you will never get it to run right with the stock ecu, maf and injectors setup like that especially.
when you have the maf in front of the turbo, the breather from the valve cover needs to be go to the intake between the turbo and maf so that it sees metered air. either that or vent both sides to bypass the issue.
Your BOV is also another source of an air leak as it is letting off unmetered air, and probably wants to stall when you come to a stop.
Also, the maf needs to have a straight section of pipe before and after it to smooth the air, since that old type of maf detects vortices in the air, having a turbo sitting an inch behind it and nothing in front of it messes with the readings.
lastly, I wouldn't pull all the fuel to get it to be lean or regular because when you get into boost with that extra timing you may need it to be rich not to detonate, especially if id decides to swing lean on you which it can because of the maf setup.

I generally don't offer help to people using the stock ecu because its a complete time sink.. waste of time... and explaining how to do it the right way takes all the rest of the time I have to help.
I would drop everything else modification wise and get the tt ecu mod done or a standalone. those non vvti motors are getting harder to find in good shape, and if you detonate it in boost on the stock ecu you are risking damage to the engine.
I have actually detonated one at 11 psi trying to use the stock ecu with a piggyback. I thought it was running alright until it detonated and sounded like an explosion going off, but luckily I didn't blow the block.
after I went to the tt ecu mod, the car felt like it pulled twice as hard at the same psi, because the ecu knew what was going on and I was finally getting the right timing and fuel.
In years of running with the tt ecu mod at 18 psi even with the 91 octane we get in colorado, I never ever came close to a hiccup and never had a detonating event again.
Just perfect pull after perfect pull, and no stalling issues when coming to a stop like the maf setup does. The maf setup is leaving so much power behind you will be surprised once you drive it with a proper ecu setup.

If reliability is not as much of an issues and you want to tune and play with all the different aspects, to squeeze out that last bit of power... then just go standalone.
If you want reliability and good power and don't mind following the "recipe", then the tt ecu mod is hard to beat.

japsc85

Thats plan to do the TT ecu mod Just waiting on the ECu and Map sensor to arrive I had access to the AFC and wanted to play around with it . Don’t think I’ll be playing with it anymore haha thanks I’ll check back when I get everything to do the swap .. any advice would be Appreciate thanks for your time!