700 whp 1jz SC300 Piggyback?
03-25-16, 01:24 PM
#1
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700 whp 1jz SC300 Piggyback?
I've done so much reading on so many different forums, I am downright sick of the mixed conclusions.
Some guys say yes, some say no.
I plan to be 650-700 whp come next year sometime.
Can this be done on a piggyback?
If so which one?
Ide prefer to not have to drop $1300 for a plug and play stand alone when my goals will never be more than 650-700 whp.
Some guys say yes, some say no.
I plan to be 650-700 whp come next year sometime.
Can this be done on a piggyback?
If so which one?
Ide prefer to not have to drop $1300 for a plug and play stand alone when my goals will never be more than 650-700 whp.
03-26-16, 06:29 AM
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My assumption would be you'de be better off searching the supra forums. More "hellaflushbro" here then "hellafastbro".
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03-26-16, 07:45 AM
#8
I made 700RWHP on a MAP-ECU-1 over 10 years ago. The MAP-ECU-3 has a lot of cool features, is easy to tune and will support 1000cc injectors on E85. I've tuned quite a few cars with this setup, runs like stock and can easily make 650-700RWHP.
Also you can get a Megasquirt MS3x for around $850, it's a full standalone and has tons of features, traction control, AFR Failsafe, Launch Control, Flex Fuel, VVTi control, *My favorite* tablet gauges which can monitor every engine parameter without the need of a bunch of extra gauges.
Also you can get a Megasquirt MS3x for around $850, it's a full standalone and has tons of features, traction control, AFR Failsafe, Launch Control, Flex Fuel, VVTi control, *My favorite* tablet gauges which can monitor every engine parameter without the need of a bunch of extra gauges.
03-26-16, 07:53 AM
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Fried, my issues with going to MS is integrating it with the factory system or having to build your own harness, not to mention not having a base map, and no tuners within probably 2.5 hours from me.
03-26-16, 08:16 AM
#10
The MS3x has base maps as well as simple wiring that can use the stock crank and cam sensors. I know a lot of tuners won't touch piggybacks or anything other than the highest end stuff.
Honestly if you can tune AEM, Pro-efi, etc, you can spend an hour or two learning the features of any piggyback or stand-alone, but I guess liability issues are a concern.
I'd just try reaching out to all the tuners in your area first, even some of the DIY guys or smaller shops, it's kind of hit or miss, as I've seen some bigger shops tune/install things that didn't have a clue what they were doing and I had to re-do everything.
I have base maps I can share for AEM, MAP-ECU and Megasquirt depending on your injector size and fuel. Most of my tunes are on straight E85, with a few flex fuels. Bosch EV14 1000cc injectors.
Honestly if you can tune AEM, Pro-efi, etc, you can spend an hour or two learning the features of any piggyback or stand-alone, but I guess liability issues are a concern.
I'd just try reaching out to all the tuners in your area first, even some of the DIY guys or smaller shops, it's kind of hit or miss, as I've seen some bigger shops tune/install things that didn't have a clue what they were doing and I had to re-do everything.
I have base maps I can share for AEM, MAP-ECU and Megasquirt depending on your injector size and fuel. Most of my tunes are on straight E85, with a few flex fuels. Bosch EV14 1000cc injectors.
03-26-16, 08:45 AM
#11
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I have a local tuner who I am friends with, he does alot of lsx stuff and has a chassis dyno, maybe ill talk to him.
He's said he'd be willing to give it a go with a piggy back system.
Ide have to ask about MS assuming I could get a base map from you. But he tunes MS frequently.
Honestly ide probably wanna start off with a 93 tune. As I wouldn't normally run e85 day to day.
He's said he'd be willing to give it a go with a piggy back system.
Ide have to ask about MS assuming I could get a base map from you. But he tunes MS frequently.
Honestly ide probably wanna start off with a 93 tune. As I wouldn't normally run e85 day to day.
Last edited by zmds18; 03-26-16 at 08:48 AM.
03-26-16, 10:16 AM
#12
With piggybacks, you can only run about double the injector size. So if the 1JZ came with 440's you can run 850's on pump gas. E85 takes 30% more fuel, so you can run 30% bigger injectors.
Basically max is 850's on pump, 1000cc on E85. 850's will not have enough flow to reach 700RWHP on E85, so you'd have to use race gas such as C16.
The base maps can be scaled easily to get you in the ball-park. MAP-ECU is very easy to tune, just hit the + and - keys to add or remove fuel at idle and cruising, then log the WOT and adjust from there. MAP-ECU-3 has a AFR failsafe, so you can set it to say 11.5 AFR at WOT, if it goes lean it will pull 30 degrees timing immediately, which essentially feels like hitting boost cut and will save the engine from detonation. Makes it almost dummy proof, even for an inexperieced tuner, as it won't let you run too lean. Megasquirt has the same feature to pulling timing or boost as well. They both have boost controller capability as well.
Basically max is 850's on pump, 1000cc on E85. 850's will not have enough flow to reach 700RWHP on E85, so you'd have to use race gas such as C16.
The base maps can be scaled easily to get you in the ball-park. MAP-ECU is very easy to tune, just hit the + and - keys to add or remove fuel at idle and cruising, then log the WOT and adjust from there. MAP-ECU-3 has a AFR failsafe, so you can set it to say 11.5 AFR at WOT, if it goes lean it will pull 30 degrees timing immediately, which essentially feels like hitting boost cut and will save the engine from detonation. Makes it almost dummy proof, even for an inexperieced tuner, as it won't let you run too lean. Megasquirt has the same feature to pulling timing or boost as well. They both have boost controller capability as well.
I have a local tuner who I am friends with, he does alot of lsx stuff and has a chassis dyno, maybe ill talk to him.
He's said he'd be willing to give it a go with a piggy back system.
Ide have to ask about MS assuming I could get a base map from you. But he tunes MS frequently.
Honestly ide probably wanna start off with a 93 tune. As I wouldn't normally run e85 day to day.
He's said he'd be willing to give it a go with a piggy back system.
Ide have to ask about MS assuming I could get a base map from you. But he tunes MS frequently.
Honestly ide probably wanna start off with a 93 tune. As I wouldn't normally run e85 day to day.
03-26-16, 07:15 PM
#13
I'm actually going to try 2 separate routes in stages.
stage 1:
jdm obd1 auto + MAPECU2 with pt6766 and injectors around the 850-880 max size available for the jdm ecu.
This is pretty much whatever the normal piggyback best practice setup is. I want to start with the jdm setup as it seems the easiest to get going and few people have had success with the usdm tt upgrade.
stage 2:
gforce obd2 usdm with fuel chip for 880's + MAPECU2 with pt6766 either ID1300's or next step up if possible.
I am assuming that since the gforce starts out with the map for 800+cc's that I can still do a safe double with the mapecu2.
Mostly just glad to hear there is someone here with experience with the mapecu as their forums are pretty much doa.
03-27-16, 08:30 AM
#14
The 850's should be fine on the JDM 440's and the 1300's should also be fine on the tuned ECU. With the increased rev-limit you will hit a brick wall above 6,000 RPM unless you upgrade cams, that would be a big help to your powerband as the 2.5L loses quite a bit of low end power but can make it up by revving it out higher than the 2J.
I actually have 4 laptops that have all my tunes on them. Two of them completely crashed ( you have to use old school laptops with serial input for anything below MAP-ECU-3 (kind of a pain) one is being borrowed by a friend and one only has one tuning session from a car with 550cc injectors.
I need to pull all the hard-drives out of the POS computers that killed them selves and consolidate the tunes. This may take me a bit of time, as I'm currently working on quite a few projects. But if you're going to run 850's, the stock software already has a base map that will get you very close. And like I said tuning the fuel table to get the car idling and cruising is very easy. Shoot for 14.7AFR at idle/cruise and 11AFR at WOT for safety, 15-18PSI.
I've used very random base maps to tune different vehicles and it only takes maybe 20-30 minutes of street driving to get the map perfect.
Download the software, read the manual and mess around with it a bit on your PC, any questions feel free to ask. And if I find one of my tunes that is closer to your setup I'll upload that along with all my tunes. (would have saved me from loosing them on the old computers)when I get a chance, but in reality the base maps that come with the software will get you very close in a short time of messing around. Then if you don't feel comfortable tuning WOT, take it to a tuner and use the dyno . *Important* Verify the tune on the street, sometimes the load from street driving will increase boost and spool and change AFR's slightly. A simple log will confirm the tune.
http://www.mapecu.com/2014/05/mapcal/
oyiJ8BQ.jpg9
I actually have 4 laptops that have all my tunes on them. Two of them completely crashed ( you have to use old school laptops with serial input for anything below MAP-ECU-3 (kind of a pain) one is being borrowed by a friend and one only has one tuning session from a car with 550cc injectors.
I need to pull all the hard-drives out of the POS computers that killed them selves and consolidate the tunes. This may take me a bit of time, as I'm currently working on quite a few projects. But if you're going to run 850's, the stock software already has a base map that will get you very close. And like I said tuning the fuel table to get the car idling and cruising is very easy. Shoot for 14.7AFR at idle/cruise and 11AFR at WOT for safety, 15-18PSI.
I've used very random base maps to tune different vehicles and it only takes maybe 20-30 minutes of street driving to get the map perfect.
Download the software, read the manual and mess around with it a bit on your PC, any questions feel free to ask. And if I find one of my tunes that is closer to your setup I'll upload that along with all my tunes. (would have saved me from loosing them on the old computers)when I get a chance, but in reality the base maps that come with the software will get you very close in a short time of messing around. Then if you don't feel comfortable tuning WOT, take it to a tuner and use the dyno . *Important* Verify the tune on the street, sometimes the load from street driving will increase boost and spool and change AFR's slightly. A simple log will confirm the tune.
http://www.mapecu.com/2014/05/mapcal/
oyiJ8BQ.jpg9
By any chance would you be willing to zip up the tunes for the MAP-ECU so that I can save them as a reference point for when my project is ready to fire?
I'm actually going to try 2 separate routes in stages.
stage 1:
jdm obd1 auto + MAPECU2 with pt6766 and injectors around the 850-880 max size available for the jdm ecu.
This is pretty much whatever the normal piggyback best practice setup is. I want to start with the jdm setup as it seems the easiest to get going and few people have had success with the usdm tt upgrade.
stage 2:
gforce obd2 usdm with fuel chip for 880's + MAPECU2 with pt6766 either ID1300's or next step up if possible.
I am assuming that since the gforce starts out with the map for 800+cc's that I can still do a safe double with the mapecu2.
Mostly just glad to hear there is someone here with experience with the mapecu as their forums are pretty much doa.
I'm actually going to try 2 separate routes in stages.
stage 1:
jdm obd1 auto + MAPECU2 with pt6766 and injectors around the 850-880 max size available for the jdm ecu.
This is pretty much whatever the normal piggyback best practice setup is. I want to start with the jdm setup as it seems the easiest to get going and few people have had success with the usdm tt upgrade.
stage 2:
gforce obd2 usdm with fuel chip for 880's + MAPECU2 with pt6766 either ID1300's or next step up if possible.
I am assuming that since the gforce starts out with the map for 800+cc's that I can still do a safe double with the mapecu2.
Mostly just glad to hear there is someone here with experience with the mapecu as their forums are pretty much doa.
03-27-16, 08:45 AM
#15
Also on another note, any of the GTE ECU's will be fine to tune; 1JZ/2JZ OBD1/OBD2 JDM, USDM, GForce, etc, I've tuned them all. You will be limited to your transmission if you're sticking with the stock auto. The 1JZ transmission is weaker than the 2JZ-GTE auto. It's basically a NA 2jz auto/converter with a different valve-body. The 2JZ-GTE stock auto will hold around 425-450RWHP before it starts slipping either through the converter or lack of valvebody pressure. I tuned a Supra to 466RWHP @18PSI through a completely stock auto, just to see how far I could push it. On the streets it started to slip a bit and bang the rev limit, I think it's running around 15PSI for now until the auto is upgraded. I turned it up to 25PSI and it felt very fast for one gear. 
