CD009 Swap With JZ - Calling All Members Who Have Done It!!
02-14-16, 02:50 AM
#121
Seriously just put it in and drive it.
We have this thing called "Forum Spec" where nothing gets done due to massive amounts of research and multiple discoveries and repeated parts purchases or revisions to imaginary "builds". Engineers also regularly exhibit this trait.
In the real world tunnels get cut, clutches get dropped to do burnouts, turbos get swapped out and engines blow up. You figure out what works or doesn't. Nothing wrong with a single plate clutch as long as it's not INSANELY high clamp. It helps immensely to remove your clutch switch so u don't have to push it to fire the engine. If you're building a car over 600 ACTUAL hp (not forum) you will be able to figure out how to get a twin plate (or triple) into the car.
Can someone post a side under pic of one of these trannies in an SC? It doesn't hang down AT ALL!!??? That is awesome. I'm pretty sure I'm a GS the tunnel needs to be cut. I guess if you don't only have 2" of ground clearance it can hang about lower. (I know of 2 GS's wth this Tranny that are daily driven)
Current state of said Celsior. Hardly "fits" amd far from a bolt I'm regardless of adaptor.
G.
SERIALNINE sedankings.
We have this thing called "Forum Spec" where nothing gets done due to massive amounts of research and multiple discoveries and repeated parts purchases or revisions to imaginary "builds". Engineers also regularly exhibit this trait.
In the real world tunnels get cut, clutches get dropped to do burnouts, turbos get swapped out and engines blow up. You figure out what works or doesn't. Nothing wrong with a single plate clutch as long as it's not INSANELY high clamp. It helps immensely to remove your clutch switch so u don't have to push it to fire the engine. If you're building a car over 600 ACTUAL hp (not forum) you will be able to figure out how to get a twin plate (or triple) into the car.
Can someone post a side under pic of one of these trannies in an SC? It doesn't hang down AT ALL!!??? That is awesome. I'm pretty sure I'm a GS the tunnel needs to be cut. I guess if you don't only have 2" of ground clearance it can hang about lower. (I know of 2 GS's wth this Tranny that are daily driven)
Current state of said Celsior. Hardly "fits" amd far from a bolt I'm regardless of adaptor.
G.
SERIALNINE sedankings.
02-15-16, 04:38 AM
#123
@serialnine
I completely agree I work alongside engineers on a daily basis and the scrutinize everything down to the utmost details. I absolutely love taking them for a wild ride and then watching the looks of horror when I show them pictures of things like my cut and welded knuckles, or the brackets I welded for my diff. These guys when they try to build anything always spend too much time and money over thinking the solution.
@disheartened clutch crank walk problems
Look the 2jz comes with full circumferential thrust bearings on both sides two half moons top and bottom a very robust setup. The trick with using a clutch with a heavy pressure plate is:
Remove and jump your clutch switch so you can start the car without pushing the clutch in (dry start)
Don't sit at stop lights with your clutch depressed for long periods of time
The biggest single mindset you should have is only actuate the clutch when you need to and be deliberate and expedient in its use.
Not trying to tell people how to live their lives but it shouldn't be a deal breaker with the clutch, just about every make has experienced crank walk with upgraded clutches and it's all because of people not following some semblance of what's been mentioned in this thread on do's and don'ts
I completely agree I work alongside engineers on a daily basis and the scrutinize everything down to the utmost details. I absolutely love taking them for a wild ride and then watching the looks of horror when I show them pictures of things like my cut and welded knuckles, or the brackets I welded for my diff. These guys when they try to build anything always spend too much time and money over thinking the solution.
@disheartened clutch crank walk problems
Look the 2jz comes with full circumferential thrust bearings on both sides two half moons top and bottom a very robust setup. The trick with using a clutch with a heavy pressure plate is:
Remove and jump your clutch switch so you can start the car without pushing the clutch in (dry start)
Don't sit at stop lights with your clutch depressed for long periods of time
The biggest single mindset you should have is only actuate the clutch when you need to and be deliberate and expedient in its use.
Not trying to tell people how to live their lives but it shouldn't be a deal breaker with the clutch, just about every make has experienced crank walk with upgraded clutches and it's all because of people not following some semblance of what's been mentioned in this thread on do's and don'ts
02-15-16, 04:48 AM
#124
Almost forgot, when you go to remove your transmission you'll have wide open easy access to the crankshaft end, install your flywheel and then mount a dial indicator and thrust the crank to see if it's within spec. It should be especially if it lived an auto life.
02-15-16, 05:33 AM
#125
^ yeah, that's what I will have to do to prolong crankwalk. But it still can happen over time, even with taking all precautions. And yes, you are correct in saying that in my case with it being an auto its whole life, I have less wear on those thrust bearings to start off with. I will just have to keep an eye on it once in a while. I am considering now going with a southbend clutch setup that is good for 575 ft lbs. That is dependent on what they tell me the clamping force is of their pressure plate used in the kit I am looking at. I also have an inquiry in to ACT to see what the clamping force is of their Xtreme pressure plate, which is what is supplied in the kit from Collins. If the southbend is much less, I might just go with it, even though it can only handle 100 less torque than the ACT kit. It's a trade off that I will have to analyze when I get all of the data in front of me. I have been seeing on other message boards that the southbend clutch kits are pretty easy to DD to often times can hold more than what they are rated for, while also having less clamping force than other comparable kits because of the pressure plate and disc combo designs..
A really good way to measure crankwalk is like you said, with a dial indicator, but with the trans and everything all functional. Then setup the dial indicator on the crank pulley, and have a friend push the clutch pedal, and measure the movement then. That way, you are seeing the actual movement caused by that pressure..
Crankwalk specs are: (from 2jzgte TSRM)
Standard thrust clearance:
0.020 - 0.220 mm (0.0008 - 0.0087 in.)
Maximum thrust clearance:
0.30 mm (0.0118 in.)
A really good way to measure crankwalk is like you said, with a dial indicator, but with the trans and everything all functional. Then setup the dial indicator on the crank pulley, and have a friend push the clutch pedal, and measure the movement then. That way, you are seeing the actual movement caused by that pressure..
Crankwalk specs are: (from 2jzgte TSRM)
Standard thrust clearance:
0.020 - 0.220 mm (0.0008 - 0.0087 in.)
Maximum thrust clearance:
0.30 mm (0.0118 in.)
Last edited by LoveSCs; 02-15-16 at 05:37 AM.
02-15-16, 08:07 AM
#126
crankwalk is a big deal on miatas (older ones), from personal experience and just running the thing i have had the collins kit for almost 2 years and i drive the car to and from work every day (including traffic). i haven't measured my crank play yet but i don't have any loss of rpm when i push in my clutch from the ****ed up thrust bearing. knock on wood.
i did also bypass my clutch switch, i never start with the clutch in.
for serialnine, here is a pic of after i installed the transmission, lowest point in red, it is some bracket that is probably not required:
now that i lowered my car, i can tell from experience that i scrape on my downpipe. i guess the header wrap is coming off now lol. i just took these two pics:
i did also bypass my clutch switch, i never start with the clutch in.
for serialnine, here is a pic of after i installed the transmission, lowest point in red, it is some bracket that is probably not required:
now that i lowered my car, i can tell from experience that i scrape on my downpipe. i guess the header wrap is coming off now lol. i just took these two pics:
02-15-16, 10:32 AM
#128
I just heard back from ACT regarding the N021X pressure plate, which is supplied with the 670ft lb clutch kit, and its clamping force is 3460lbs...
Now I need to hear back from southbend about their SS plate, and I also NEED the stock pressure plate rating.. Anyone know?
Now I need to hear back from southbend about their SS plate, and I also NEED the stock pressure plate rating.. Anyone know?
02-15-16, 10:40 AM
#129
i have whatever collins ships with their 425 ft lb rated 6 puck sprung clutch, again the stuff came in a box with no spec sheet / part numbers so i can't really tell. it is blue 
my pedal feels average, not as hard as my ACT Xtreme pressure plate i had on my 240sx but harder than my stock Audi A6 2.7T
my pedal feels average, not as hard as my ACT Xtreme pressure plate i had on my 240sx but harder than my stock Audi A6 2.7T
02-15-16, 11:11 AM
#131
i have whatever collins ships with their 425 ft lb rated 6 puck sprung clutch, again the stuff came in a box with no spec sheet / part numbers so i can't really tell. it is blue
my pedal feels average, not as hard as my ACT Xtreme pressure plate i had on my 240sx but harder than my stock Audi A6 2.7T
my pedal feels average, not as hard as my ACT Xtreme pressure plate i had on my 240sx but harder than my stock Audi A6 2.7T
Thanks guys! I don't think I will be installing this ACT kit... Now just have to hear back from southbend, and also try to determine what the stock PP rating is..
02-16-16, 05:51 AM
#134
Clamping force data found on mkiiitech.com
here is a snippet from a thread by drjonez, which apparently is for the MK3 R154:
stock PP: 1700 lbs (unverified, according to clutchnet), 1840 (unverified, according to ACT)
JDM OEM Toyota : 1815 lbs (unverified, according to slimfastsupra)
In addition, suprastore has an article mentioning that it is 2600lb, which I am assuming is for the v160.
Also, an SF member said he thought 2400 for R154. So, there is a wide range of values here. I guess it sounds like nobody really knows for sure..
stock PP: 1700 lbs (unverified, according to clutchnet), 1840 (unverified, according to ACT)
JDM OEM Toyota : 1815 lbs (unverified, according to slimfastsupra)
In addition, suprastore has an article mentioning that it is 2600lb, which I am assuming is for the v160.
Also, an SF member said he thought 2400 for R154. So, there is a wide range of values here. I guess it sounds like nobody really knows for sure..
02-16-16, 06:46 AM
#135
Just heard back from southbend. The clamping force on their pressure plate used in the NSK1000-SS-TZ kit, which is rated to 575 ft lbs, is 2850lbs.
Compared to the ACT Xtreme N021X pressure plate used in the Collins kit, which is rated to 670 ft lbs, which was 3460lbs.
So, I guess one has to decide if the extra 100 ft lb torque capacity is worth the extra 600 lb of load on the thrust washers, relating to crank walk...
In my case, I am just going to go for the southbend kit, and will sell the ACT kit. Southbend kits have a reputation for holding more than what they are rated for as well...
OK, I am done talking about crank walk in this thread.
But, it is something definitely worth considering if going with the cd009 retrofit kit because there aren't a lot of mutli disc clutch options available at this point. So, if you plan on making huge power (greater than say 550 rw tq) on a cd009, just realize that you will end up needing a Maverick adapter with SPEC twin disc. And SPEC is not the best brand... Otherwise, you will need to go with the ACT 670ft lb kit, and put a TON of stress on the crank, while also sacrificing DD ability. Just my $.02 at this point. I am hoping that in the future, some good clutch manufacturers hop on the bandwagon here and start making off the shelf clutches/flywheels for these swaps...
Compared to the ACT Xtreme N021X pressure plate used in the Collins kit, which is rated to 670 ft lbs, which was 3460lbs.
So, I guess one has to decide if the extra 100 ft lb torque capacity is worth the extra 600 lb of load on the thrust washers, relating to crank walk...
In my case, I am just going to go for the southbend kit, and will sell the ACT kit. Southbend kits have a reputation for holding more than what they are rated for as well...
OK, I am done talking about crank walk in this thread.
But, it is something definitely worth considering if going with the cd009 retrofit kit because there aren't a lot of mutli disc clutch options available at this point. So, if you plan on making huge power (greater than say 550 rw tq) on a cd009, just realize that you will end up needing a Maverick adapter with SPEC twin disc. And SPEC is not the best brand... Otherwise, you will need to go with the ACT 670ft lb kit, and put a TON of stress on the crank, while also sacrificing DD ability. Just my $.02 at this point. I am hoping that in the future, some good clutch manufacturers hop on the bandwagon here and start making off the shelf clutches/flywheels for these swaps...