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Turns out my throttle body is broken and needs to be replaced. So I was thinking why not go with a ffim even though I am not running a turbo. At the very least it will make it easier to change the stupid plugs.
While I have found a lot of threads with people adding a ffim, throttle body, tps, I have not found a thread letting me know if I need to change anything else other than needing to move the ps reservoir and a longer tb cable
Any advice on what I should expect to need to do the job?
*A used tb is approx $100 and another $100 for a proper rebuild. Dealer cost is $700 so that is out of the question. As I am looking at least $200 total for a stock tb change, it made sense to spend a few hundred more to upgrade.
The only ffim with tb and tps that I have found on the forums here uses a q45 knockoff and a nissan tps. Anyone know if this works at all with a nissan tps or is it not worth the headaches?
what do you mean 200$ for a throttle body and who rebuilds them, never even heard of that.
I have like 5 throttle bodies in a box somewhere, just get a replacement used one and slap it on there, max $50.
changing to a FFIM is a hassle, you will loose power as n/a as you will loose your ACIS system which gives the inline much needed torque down low. going FFIM only is helpful with a turbo, and thats even debatable wheter its just aesthetic or performance (you can make over 700hp on the stock intake easy).
You will have to get the right throttle body for the FFIM, weld on an Idle control flange, longer TB cable, reroute all vacuum lines, oil changes will become a royal pain (and you do those more frequently then plugs), you may need to relocate the fusebox/battery depending on the throttle body you use, remote power steering reservoir and lines from a supra. If you are thinking you can do it for less than a grand you better be able to do the labor yourself and know a welder. the cheapo FFI's on ebay come with the wrong throttle body flange so you either have to spend $$$ on a pricey mustang 90mm throttle body (you will also need tps adatper for stock tps so stock ecu doesn't freak out), or get a bling RMR 90mm unit w/tps adapter, or spend money changing the flange and throttle body. just my .02c I have installed 3 different FFIM's on my car, I wouldn't do it on an n/a if someone paid me to, its pointless and counter productive, and by the end if you even get that far you will wish you just got iridium laser plugs that only need to be changed like every 75k miles and stuck with the stock intake manifold.
nissan tps can be made to work if you wire it up right, but I always just use the adapter and run the stock toyota tps, that way no rewire is needed.
don't go to the dealer, in the classifieds here many members have their stock throttle bodies that they would sell you, post a WTB: (Want to buy)
The manual and automatic ones are different, and if you have a auto one they came in different versions, with trac, without trac, and then the california or 96+ models have an extra air hose on them. try and get a replacement in a similar year range.
maybe post up what happened to your throttle body, never seen a stock one break to this day.. except for when I take them apart generally speaking.
Wow thanks for the information. I would not have guessed it was that difficult and expensive to gain nothing. Once again the experts here are saving me money as I was considering making an offer on that ffim setup as he was asking $500 for everything.
It seems the prior owner removed a part of the tb that opens and closes the big opening valve when you let off the throttle.
There should be a big round valve below the bracket there as seen in this picture.
Because I have a 96 5sp california car, the throttle body is a bit difficult to locate right now. The dealer couldn't tell me exactly what models are compatible other than a 95-96 California manual with no trac. I found a 97 tb rather cheap
yeah you should have just come here first and not the dealer, they are terrible at things like this. your throttle body is special sorta being a 5speed cali, but that thing is the same on all the throttle bodies. just grab one of any 2jzge throttle body, doesn't matter if its auto or manual, and its one bolt to attach it to your throttle body (you can see where they put the bolt back in actually in the picture, so you have the bolt still).
also you don't actually need that, all it does is hold the throttle open for a second on rapid deceleration (letting off the throttle quickly) to let in a little air to burn off any remaining gas. this is more of an emissions friendly thing and worst case without it you may get an occasional pop from the exhaust when you let off the throttle fast, but you likely have to be on the throttle hard first before that to have any remaining gas left around.
also for future reference 5spd's never came with trac, so you would be just looking for a 5 speed cali throttle body (has the extra hose off the idle valve), but you don't need one it turns out.
I might have one of those things laying around I took apart a few throttle bodies to steal their tps actuators, I'll take a look later and let you know.
If you manage to find a good clean one with working accessories, iacv, tps, etc..whatever.. then I'll take it. You've been a huge help. I took the car into the dealer to get it checked out because it still isn't running perfect and I was out of ideas. It was after that trip that I found the missing part on the tb. Toyota said I had a 1% misfire in cyl 6, but other than that couldn't figure it out. I was wrongly assuming that if I had to replace everything electrical 'again' that I would go with coilpacks this time, and in order to do that I had to have a ffim, but then I just read the na-t build thread and saw his coilpacks using the stock mani.
So at this point I will just replace the tb and see if any of the new sensors help. If not, then it's time to find the best deal and setup on whatever I need for coilpacks. I do plan on going na-t someday, but not until everything else in the car is perfect. So one step at a time here as it's now my dd while the truck is in the shop.
what symptoms is the car having?? any check engine codes? a 1% misfire is not much concern, I would clear the ecu and let it relearn some things. as I said that wont be what causes your issue, my current throttle body on my FFIm doesn't even have one of those things. I have also run the stock throttle body and a ls400 throttle body without that on there and never really even noticed any difference except that occasional pop on decel after racing the motor. shouldn't cause any codes or affect how it drives really.
one thing I cant see is there is a vacuum line that comes off of it and goes to the top of the throttle body, this should be capped off since its removed and sometimes the caps people use tend to crack and get a leak over time. make sure its capped off properly as a leak always makes the motor run sluggish and is something you would notice.
about the only thing that can go bad on the throttle body electronic wise is the tps, or it needs some adjustment, but you would likely be throwing codes for both of those things if you have a 96-97 model.
I dont have any full throtle bodies that I can give you, I would only have that one piece that missing and you could put it back on yours. if you are interested in that let me know. there is likely nothing wrong with your throttle body to be honest other than that. now you are making me wonder if some cali models didn't have that on there to start with. loking at the pic again, the thing I thought was the bolt for it is actually for the main throttle body, must have been before my coffee... see if there is a spot to bolt it on in a different spot.
Ill post some pics later today of what I have laying around.
the most important thing to do on these cars tune up wise if something feels off is new distribuor cap (OEM), new distributor rotor (OEM), new plug wires (OEM or NGK is fine), and new plugs (NGK BKR6EIX-11 are the Iridiums that are more performance oriented and last around 60k+, or you can get the NGK Laser Iridiums that are a couple bucks more per plug and these are more for a stodck vehicle and will get you like 80k+ out of them, the longest interval you can go for which is nice when you are running the stock intake manifold).
Yes, I understand now that the missing piece is not causing me problems, More I have been bringing the car back to proper running condition and having missing items drives me nuts. I don't have the budget that others here have but I am spending considerable time and money getting this car fixed right and these forums have been a huge help.
I've documented the problem extensively in a thread a few months back, but the basics are that every once in a while the car will go into what I call 'limp' mode where it feels like it is running on 2 cylinders. In the past it would throw codes for camshaft, crankshaft, o2, to lean, you name it, it was all over the place.
Currently the car is throwing no codes, and yet I did absolutely nothing to it since the last time it ran horribly. It just started right up, drove to Toyota for diagnosis, and they gave up. Like a kid going to the dentist, no pain once you get there. I can't explain it.
The only remaining thing I notice is what I call very small rapid misfires out the exhaust. poof poof poof, and the car doesn't run perfectly smooth like a lexus would. Happens at all temps and truly isn't hardly noticeable unless your paying attention.
I have changed plugs (ngk laser iridium), cap, rotor, wires, ecu rebuild, vacuum lines, maf, filter, fuel filter, basically everything external other than tps, iacv new throttle body basically. I've set the base timing 10 degrees etc.
Really I think the only thing left would be a new harness though mine looks good with no visible cracked wires etc, fuel injectors, maybe go with coilpacks? not sure what else would 'sporadically' fail and then work again. While I have driven the car all week now, I don't yet trust it on drives of more than a few miles until I figure out what the problem was/is so I know it's fixed.
*Probably 100% unrelated but as Toyota says my issue may be electrical, should mention that when I turn on the a/c, the entire fan unit turns on/off/on/off continuously. Doesn't blow a fuse, but will cycle the fan forever until the a/c button is disengaged. As it's a wanna be track car, never cared about the a/c, but just throwing it out there in case it's related in some crazy way.
09-08-15, 11:42 AM
ffim conversion what else do I need?
