AEM v2 startup settings?
06-25-15, 10:46 AM
#1
AEM v2 startup settings?
AEM v2 newbie here. Just got around to starting up the new setup. I can't get it to startup nor idle. I tried to search through the AEM forums but after they updated the site many of their old links are not working anymore.
Anyone have a map they could share?
Or any tips to get this thing to idle?
The important mods are 550cc injectors @ 30psi (I can obviously rescale if needed)
272 cams
stock IACV
stock TPS and TB
Can't get this guy to idle
Help!!
Anyone have a map they could share?
Or any tips to get this thing to idle?
The important mods are 550cc injectors @ 30psi (I can obviously rescale if needed)
272 cams
stock IACV
stock TPS and TB
Can't get this guy to idle
Help!!
06-25-15, 01:05 PM
#2
does it fire off? there are only a few basic parameters for engine start.
there is the engine start crank angle which you dont usually have to change.
then under engine start there should be a "initial crank pulse" table.
this table controls how much fuel is injected during the starting cycle.
too much fuel and you wash out the spark and flood it, too little fuel and it wont ever fire off.
when you change injectors, this needs to be retuned if having trouble starting it.
there is a wide range that will start the car on this value, but it has to be in that range or you get terrible starts.
this is one function that is very often tuned for cold starts.
so whenever you install larger injector than the basemap had before, you should lower the initial crank pulse to keep the same amount of fuel for starting.
the injector change wizard does not do this automatically.
also make sure there is enough air to start and idle, I am assuming your idle valve was working before?
the parameter for starting is called the IACV "park" value. its usually high to allow lots of air for a start.
normally you don't have to mess with this value but covering for those interested.
you can also press the gas slightly to get more air in, if that makes it start its likely not getting enough air or the initial crank pulse is giving too much fuel and so you need extra air to get it to start.
you wont really know which is the case until you get it started and see what rpm its idling at, but if you hear the engine is not even trying to start then alot of the time its too much fuel on the crank pulse.
you start to see how the initial crank pulse can throw off how other parameters are set very easily.
the last thing which is for after it fires off and is trying to idle, if it stumbles and dies then assuming the air fuel is in a range that it can deal with, then you need to mess with the idle % map likely raising it for the rpm's where your idle is lower than what the chart says. it takes some messing around with but this is only after you get a start.
if you can;t even get a start do make sure the "stat synced" parameter turns to on while cranking the motor.
if it doesn't there is a cam/crank or issue with the settings in the calibration.
there is the engine start crank angle which you dont usually have to change.
then under engine start there should be a "initial crank pulse" table.
this table controls how much fuel is injected during the starting cycle.
too much fuel and you wash out the spark and flood it, too little fuel and it wont ever fire off.
when you change injectors, this needs to be retuned if having trouble starting it.
there is a wide range that will start the car on this value, but it has to be in that range or you get terrible starts.
this is one function that is very often tuned for cold starts.
so whenever you install larger injector than the basemap had before, you should lower the initial crank pulse to keep the same amount of fuel for starting.
the injector change wizard does not do this automatically.
also make sure there is enough air to start and idle, I am assuming your idle valve was working before?
the parameter for starting is called the IACV "park" value. its usually high to allow lots of air for a start.
normally you don't have to mess with this value but covering for those interested.
you can also press the gas slightly to get more air in, if that makes it start its likely not getting enough air or the initial crank pulse is giving too much fuel and so you need extra air to get it to start.
you wont really know which is the case until you get it started and see what rpm its idling at, but if you hear the engine is not even trying to start then alot of the time its too much fuel on the crank pulse.
you start to see how the initial crank pulse can throw off how other parameters are set very easily.
the last thing which is for after it fires off and is trying to idle, if it stumbles and dies then assuming the air fuel is in a range that it can deal with, then you need to mess with the idle % map likely raising it for the rpm's where your idle is lower than what the chart says. it takes some messing around with but this is only after you get a start.
if you can;t even get a start do make sure the "stat synced" parameter turns to on while cranking the motor.
if it doesn't there is a cam/crank or issue with the settings in the calibration.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 06-25-15 at 01:09 PM.
06-25-15, 01:29 PM
#3
Just wondering what startup map did you use ? The AEM supra 2jzgte base map should get you going.... be able to start that car at least with your 550cc injectors @43 psi which is the stock fuel pressure then can eventually work on your idle.
That base map was always a good start for me as long as all the components are properly setup and rescaled on the ECU... then tune from there.
That base map was always a good start for me as long as all the components are properly setup and rescaled on the ECU... then tune from there.
06-25-15, 03:36 PM
#4
Just wondering what startup map did you use ? The AEM supra 2jzgte base map should get you going.... be able to start that car at least with your 550cc injectors @43 psi which is the stock fuel pressure then can eventually work on your idle.
That base map was always a good start for me as long as all the components are properly setup and rescaled on the ECU... then tune from there.
That base map was always a good start for me as long as all the components are properly setup and rescaled on the ECU... then tune from there.
However, the variable now is new cams.
Just wanted to clarify, the car did start and run with me holding the throttle open. I just couldn't get it to idle and it is very reluctant to start when cold.
I need to find this "park" value. I know the IACV was working prior with the 550 injectors on the small turbo I had before and I hear it working now. I may just need to open it up a bit more.
"stat sync" is fine
I'm just not sure how to get these cams to idle.
06-25-15, 04:31 PM
#5
ahh that makes more sense thought it was a basemap, if cams was the only change then dont mess with the other parameters if it was starting and idling fine before.
only change initial crank pulse it will have to come down, make adjustements to the idle part of the fuel map, and optionally add some timing down low if its still not idling right after the first 2.
you might have to bump up the idle percentage vs rpm table up a few percentage as well until it holds a steady idle, you can even try this before doing the main fuel map or adding timing.
definately lower the initial crank pulse though, that should make it start easy, its basically the more important of the 2 parameter tuners actually tune for starting your car in summer and winter.
adding more air might fix it but actually when doing cams you need to remove fuel and add timing in the lower idle load areas, I want to say the more overlap the more timing can help.
lowering the initial crank pulse will make it start better, take it to like 75% and see what it does. basically keep moving this value around till it starts on its own.
then when its starting it will probably die out from being rich then, so lower the fuel map around the idle area a few percent at a time until it will hold an idle and you can also throw a few extra degrees of timing in there (monitor knock while doing). you may find the idle a low value if that is the case bump up the whole idle like said above. again this is due to having larger cams you likely have too much fuel. stepping on the gas will allow more air to come in, but your tune is also adding more fuel when you do that so you need to change the tune some.
only change initial crank pulse it will have to come down, make adjustements to the idle part of the fuel map, and optionally add some timing down low if its still not idling right after the first 2.
you might have to bump up the idle percentage vs rpm table up a few percentage as well until it holds a steady idle, you can even try this before doing the main fuel map or adding timing.
definately lower the initial crank pulse though, that should make it start easy, its basically the more important of the 2 parameter tuners actually tune for starting your car in summer and winter.
adding more air might fix it but actually when doing cams you need to remove fuel and add timing in the lower idle load areas, I want to say the more overlap the more timing can help.
lowering the initial crank pulse will make it start better, take it to like 75% and see what it does. basically keep moving this value around till it starts on its own.
then when its starting it will probably die out from being rich then, so lower the fuel map around the idle area a few percent at a time until it will hold an idle and you can also throw a few extra degrees of timing in there (monitor knock while doing). you may find the idle a low value if that is the case bump up the whole idle like said above. again this is due to having larger cams you likely have too much fuel. stepping on the gas will allow more air to come in, but your tune is also adding more fuel when you do that so you need to change the tune some.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 06-25-15 at 04:38 PM.
06-25-15, 05:29 PM
#6
ahh that makes more sense thought it was a basemap, if cams was the only change then dont mess with the other parameters if it was starting and idling fine before.
only change initial crank pulse it will have to come down, make adjustements to the idle part of the fuel map, and optionally add some timing down low if its still not idling right after the first 2.
you might have to bump up the idle percentage vs rpm table up a few percentage as well until it holds a steady idle, you can even try this before doing the main fuel map or adding timing.
definately lower the initial crank pulse though, that should make it start easy, its basically the more important of the 2 parameter tuners actually tune for starting your car in summer and winter.
only change initial crank pulse it will have to come down, make adjustements to the idle part of the fuel map, and optionally add some timing down low if its still not idling right after the first 2.
you might have to bump up the idle percentage vs rpm table up a few percentage as well until it holds a steady idle, you can even try this before doing the main fuel map or adding timing.
definately lower the initial crank pulse though, that should make it start easy, its basically the more important of the 2 parameter tuners actually tune for starting your car in summer and winter.
My issue now is I can't get it to idle any lower. It basically "bogs" and AFR shoots super lean anytime I try to get it to idle below that...
Any ideas anyone? I even took the IACV out of the equation by setting its FB max and min to 0 for now. I know many people simply delete them with an AEM.
06-26-15, 08:34 AM
#7
I can usually tell by the sound but a bog generally is from too much fuel again, and its funny the wideband can show lean when that happens because it misfires and then the o2 picks up all the unburnt oxygen and shows you lean. it doesn't actually see the fuel so it doesn't know you misfired just tells you how much unburnt oxygen you have there, I call it a false lean.
do you hear any popping out the exhaust when that happens? that would be a confirmation its misfiring and doing that, its the fuel com busting in the hot exhaust basically. try lowering the fuel points from like 600 to 1200 rpms, with 272's I would get it to idle at least around 1k or even 1200 if possible, but 1400 is a bit much.
many people cannot open their laptops even, keep the idle valve I have had it on the aem and never had a single problem after I set it up correctly.
when I removed my idle valve for like half a year, it was not fun dealing with a low idle on start that you have to keep your foot on the gas, and then dealing with a super high idle on hot days, basically with no IACV it just changes randomly with the weather and you end up messing with your throttle body screw a bunch cause that is all you have left to control your idle, and unless you have a q45 throttle body with the idle up arm built in you will only have a good warm idle (and a bad cold idle) or a good cold idle (and a bad warm idle). usually you park it somewhere in the middle and live with the issues. again, I would not delete it if its already there its much better to use it if you have one.
do you hear any popping out the exhaust when that happens? that would be a confirmation its misfiring and doing that, its the fuel com busting in the hot exhaust basically. try lowering the fuel points from like 600 to 1200 rpms, with 272's I would get it to idle at least around 1k or even 1200 if possible, but 1400 is a bit much.
many people cannot open their laptops even, keep the idle valve I have had it on the aem and never had a single problem after I set it up correctly.
when I removed my idle valve for like half a year, it was not fun dealing with a low idle on start that you have to keep your foot on the gas, and then dealing with a super high idle on hot days, basically with no IACV it just changes randomly with the weather and you end up messing with your throttle body screw a bunch cause that is all you have left to control your idle, and unless you have a q45 throttle body with the idle up arm built in you will only have a good warm idle (and a bad cold idle) or a good cold idle (and a bad warm idle). usually you park it somewhere in the middle and live with the issues. again, I would not delete it if its already there its much better to use it if you have one.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 06-26-15 at 08:37 AM.
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06-27-15, 09:37 AM
#9
You nailed the misfire idea. I tried turning off the coils individually and saw it bogged much worse except when I tried to turn off coil #1. Diagnosis? I had switched the wires on coil 1 and it was misfiring. I swapped the wires and it idled muuuuch smoother at 1400rpm.
However it will not idle much better and starts to misfire when it drops down low. Specifically I noticed it starts to misfire cyl number 1 and 5. I'm gonna widen my spark plug gap and see if that helps but I am kind of stumped as to why it would start to misfire at low RPM yet idles better and doesn't misfire at higher rpm.
I also noticed a weird pattern where my fuel pressure starts going wayyyyy high past 60psi when it bogs. I might be fighting a fuel issue at the same time? I did relocate my FPR last week
However it will not idle much better and starts to misfire when it drops down low. Specifically I noticed it starts to misfire cyl number 1 and 5. I'm gonna widen my spark plug gap and see if that helps but I am kind of stumped as to why it would start to misfire at low RPM yet idles better and doesn't misfire at higher rpm.
I also noticed a weird pattern where my fuel pressure starts going wayyyyy high past 60psi when it bogs. I might be fighting a fuel issue at the same time? I did relocate my FPR last week
06-27-15, 11:53 AM
#10
I widened the gap up from .25 to .40 and it still misfires below 1400rpm now. It's misfiring cyl 1 AND 5. Just very weird that it has NO misfire around 2k rpm and it just suddenly "bogs" and starts to misfire when it drops below that. I correct it by blipping the gas and both cyl start to fire normally again.
06-27-15, 02:47 PM
#11
the spiking in fuel pressure could easily be responsible for that. I use the stock one still so not sure how to reccomend setting it up. almost sounds like you can't return enough fuel at that low of an rpm, and even a few psi increase in fuel pressure is going to overfuel the engine. I would start there since you changed that last week. also gerrb mentioned about 40 psi being the right number to use.
did you change your return line maybe?
what fuel pump and mods have you done recently also.
did you change your return line maybe?
what fuel pump and mods have you done recently also.
06-27-15, 06:30 PM
#12
I'm actually on a stock return still with an aeromotive FPR and stealth340 pump in tank going through a -6AN feed. I'm gonna mess with the FPR a bit tomorrow. I am becoming more confident this is an ignition issue. I didn't touch the fuel setup besides the physical relocation of the FPR and I don't see any kinks in the FPR return. Plus the wideband just seems to be fairly rich smoothly down until the point it starts to misfire. I even thought for a minute it could be crank angle sensor related but I took off the timing covers and the timing wheel looks fine.
I'm actually wiring in the LQ9 coils now and I'm going to run the harness all the way down to the AEM and bypass all the factory ignition wiring if at all possible.
Are these motors that sensitive to feel pressure fluctuations?? I know I used to crank down the fuel pressure super low before on the stock ECU to compensate for the big 550 injectors and the motor idled well down to around 10psi if fuel. Plus I'm not certain at this point if the backfiring at low rpm isn't simply spooling my turbo and decreasing the vacuum in the intake manifold and thus screwing with the fuel pressure further. Might just disconnect an intercooler pipe tomorrow.
I'm actually wiring in the LQ9 coils now and I'm going to run the harness all the way down to the AEM and bypass all the factory ignition wiring if at all possible.
Are these motors that sensitive to feel pressure fluctuations?? I know I used to crank down the fuel pressure super low before on the stock ECU to compensate for the big 550 injectors and the motor idled well down to around 10psi if fuel. Plus I'm not certain at this point if the backfiring at low rpm isn't simply spooling my turbo and decreasing the vacuum in the intake manifold and thus screwing with the fuel pressure further. Might just disconnect an intercooler pipe tomorrow.
08-11-15, 05:52 PM
#13
AAAAAND I'm back!
LQ9s in. Car started up and idled at 1400rpm without any misfire with the new coils and wiring. When I individually turn off the coils, the engine stumbles as predicted. With 272 cams I'm still drawing a nice -10mmhg of vacuum.
The problem once again arrises when I try to drop RPMs below 1200 rpm. It sputters, bogs and misfires. Blipping the gas brings the motor back up past 1400rpm and everything smooths out. Any thoughts?
Could it be the injectors? Fuel? I have fairly certainly ruled out ignition origin.
Did I screw up the cam install someone? How does a cam that's off by a few degrees present?
LQ9s in. Car started up and idled at 1400rpm without any misfire with the new coils and wiring. When I individually turn off the coils, the engine stumbles as predicted. With 272 cams I'm still drawing a nice -10mmhg of vacuum.
The problem once again arrises when I try to drop RPMs below 1200 rpm. It sputters, bogs and misfires. Blipping the gas brings the motor back up past 1400rpm and everything smooths out. Any thoughts?
Could it be the injectors? Fuel? I have fairly certainly ruled out ignition origin.
Did I screw up the cam install someone? How does a cam that's off by a few degrees present?
Last edited by INTIMAZY; 08-11-15 at 05:58 PM.
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