Replaced PS Pump and still have whining
11-18-07, 08:57 AM
#1
Replaced PS Pump and still have whining
Guys,
Replaced my PS Pump because of a leak, but I still have the whining sound. The one I bought had only been used for 9 months so I know it was good. I bled the system properly but still have the whining. What else could it be?
Jonny
Replaced my PS Pump because of a leak, but I still have the whining sound. The one I bought had only been used for 9 months so I know it was good. I bled the system properly but still have the whining. What else could it be?
Jonny
11-18-07, 09:18 AM
#2
Could be low fluid, air in system, or a bad pump. Since you said it was bled properly and the pump is fairly new, is it possible that the fluid is low? Try checking the level after you have driven the vehicle for a bit. If the level is fine, the other 2 maybe have to be questioned.
11-18-07, 12:28 PM
#3
Could be low fluid, air in system, or a bad pump. Since you said it was bled properly and the pump is fairly new, is it possible that the fluid is low? Try checking the level after you have driven the vehicle for a bit. If the level is fine, the other 2 maybe have to be questioned.
I filled it as I bled it, so I know the fluid is fine. I bought the pump used from a member who said it only had 9 months on it so I am trying to talk to him to make sure he sent me a good pump... There are only 2 hoses going to the pump - both are fine and not leaking...
This sucks,
Jonny
11-18-07, 12:59 PM
#5
Hello,
Can you see the level markings on the clear reservoir. It has 2 sides....
1. Minimum and maximum levels for cold fluid, and
2. Minimum and maximum levels for hot fluid. If your reservoir is clean, you can see the amount of fluid inside.
A few questions:
1. What was the condition of the fluid that came out? was it really clean and red, or was it brownish? The Lexus uses DEXRON automatic transmission fluid for the power steering system. Many of us use synthetic transmission fluid like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL Universal transmission fluid.
2. Did you flush the rack and pinion of all old fluid before installing the new pump?
I will submit that if the fluid was really dirty when you changed the pump, there is still dirty fluid in the rack and pinion unit that must come out.
3. Is noise the only issue? How does the steering work? Is it normal, or is it harder to turn while making noise?
Bleeding of air occurs when the "return" line sends fluid from the rack back to the reservoir. The return line is the small line coming to either the side or bottom of the reservoir, while the supply side for the pump is the large line directly underneath the reservoir.
The pump fills by gravity on the large line.
I bleed my system by draining the rack, and filling the reservoir to the MAX HOT level before starting the engine. As soon as the engine starts, the fluid goes down to the rack under pressure, and the reservoir level drops.
My car is on a lift, so I SLOWLY turn the steering wheel left and right a few times, while leaving the cap on the reservoir off. I can see the air bubbles coming up to the top. Leaving the top off helps get rid of air trapped in the system.
Then I stop the engine and more bubbles come to the top. I wait until they stop coming, and refill the reservoir to the MAX COLD level.
Then I restart and allow to run 5 minutes, which gets the fluid hot. When all the air is out of the system, you can see the fluid "swirling" in the reservoir while the engine is running. This is the return fluid coming back in from the rack and mixing in with the fluid going down into the pump "inlet".
The pump should be QUIET in operation at this point, and the steering wheel should turn very easily.
To drain the rack and pinion, make sure the engine is off. Then:
1. remove both front wheels
2. Find the inlet rubber line to the rack and pinion, which is right on the rack itself. The pressure line and the return line are on top of each other on the rack. Remove the clamp and pull the rubber line off. The reservoir will immediately drain, and a small amount of fluid will come from the rack as well. A pan will fit behind the drivers' wheel easily and catch the contents of the system.
3. With the steering wheel unlocked, grab the brake assembly and move from left to right. This will cause the wheel to turn and fluid will pump out of the rack itself. Move back and forth until the rack is nearly empty. Check the fluid coming out for contaminants. If dirt and other fragments come out, it will have to be flushed again.
4. Put the rubber line back on and refill the reservoir as stated above.
5. Start the engine, and allow the air to come up to the top. Then turn the steeering wheel back and forth. After running for awhile, the engine can be stopped, and the fluid drained again.
6. Continue to flushing the fluid from the rack until all the dirt has been pumped out. Fill the final time, and things should be fine.
GOOD LUCK!
Can you see the level markings on the clear reservoir. It has 2 sides....
1. Minimum and maximum levels for cold fluid, and
2. Minimum and maximum levels for hot fluid. If your reservoir is clean, you can see the amount of fluid inside.
A few questions:
1. What was the condition of the fluid that came out? was it really clean and red, or was it brownish? The Lexus uses DEXRON automatic transmission fluid for the power steering system. Many of us use synthetic transmission fluid like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL Universal transmission fluid.
2. Did you flush the rack and pinion of all old fluid before installing the new pump?
I will submit that if the fluid was really dirty when you changed the pump, there is still dirty fluid in the rack and pinion unit that must come out.
3. Is noise the only issue? How does the steering work? Is it normal, or is it harder to turn while making noise?
Bleeding of air occurs when the "return" line sends fluid from the rack back to the reservoir. The return line is the small line coming to either the side or bottom of the reservoir, while the supply side for the pump is the large line directly underneath the reservoir.
The pump fills by gravity on the large line.
I bleed my system by draining the rack, and filling the reservoir to the MAX HOT level before starting the engine. As soon as the engine starts, the fluid goes down to the rack under pressure, and the reservoir level drops.
My car is on a lift, so I SLOWLY turn the steering wheel left and right a few times, while leaving the cap on the reservoir off. I can see the air bubbles coming up to the top. Leaving the top off helps get rid of air trapped in the system.
Then I stop the engine and more bubbles come to the top. I wait until they stop coming, and refill the reservoir to the MAX COLD level.
Then I restart and allow to run 5 minutes, which gets the fluid hot. When all the air is out of the system, you can see the fluid "swirling" in the reservoir while the engine is running. This is the return fluid coming back in from the rack and mixing in with the fluid going down into the pump "inlet".
The pump should be QUIET in operation at this point, and the steering wheel should turn very easily.
To drain the rack and pinion, make sure the engine is off. Then:
1. remove both front wheels
2. Find the inlet rubber line to the rack and pinion, which is right on the rack itself. The pressure line and the return line are on top of each other on the rack. Remove the clamp and pull the rubber line off. The reservoir will immediately drain, and a small amount of fluid will come from the rack as well. A pan will fit behind the drivers' wheel easily and catch the contents of the system.
3. With the steering wheel unlocked, grab the brake assembly and move from left to right. This will cause the wheel to turn and fluid will pump out of the rack itself. Move back and forth until the rack is nearly empty. Check the fluid coming out for contaminants. If dirt and other fragments come out, it will have to be flushed again.
4. Put the rubber line back on and refill the reservoir as stated above.
5. Start the engine, and allow the air to come up to the top. Then turn the steeering wheel back and forth. After running for awhile, the engine can be stopped, and the fluid drained again.
6. Continue to flushing the fluid from the rack until all the dirt has been pumped out. Fill the final time, and things should be fine.
GOOD LUCK!
Last edited by gserep1; 11-18-07 at 01:16 PM.
11-18-07, 03:34 PM
#6
Hello,
Can you see the level markings on the clear reservoir. It has 2 sides....
1. Minimum and maximum levels for cold fluid, and
2. Minimum and maximum levels for hot fluid. If your reservoir is clean, you can see the amount of fluid inside.
A few questions:
1. What was the condition of the fluid that came out? was it really clean and red, or was it brownish? The Lexus uses DEXRON automatic transmission fluid for the power steering system. Many of us use synthetic transmission fluid like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL Universal transmission fluid.
2. Did you flush the rack and pinion of all old fluid before installing the new pump?
I will submit that if the fluid was really dirty when you changed the pump, there is still dirty fluid in the rack and pinion unit that must come out.
3. Is noise the only issue? How does the steering work? Is it normal, or is it harder to turn while making noise?
Bleeding of air occurs when the "return" line sends fluid from the rack back to the reservoir. The return line is the small line coming to either the side or bottom of the reservoir, while the supply side for the pump is the large line directly underneath the reservoir.
The pump fills by gravity on the large line.
I bleed my system by draining the rack, and filling the reservoir to the MAX HOT level before starting the engine. As soon as the engine starts, the fluid goes down to the rack under pressure, and the reservoir level drops.
My car is on a lift, so I SLOWLY turn the steering wheel left and right a few times, while leaving the cap on the reservoir off. I can see the air bubbles coming up to the top. Leaving the top off helps get rid of air trapped in the system.
Then I stop the engine and more bubbles come to the top. I wait until they stop coming, and refill the reservoir to the MAX COLD level.
Then I restart and allow to run 5 minutes, which gets the fluid hot. When all the air is out of the system, you can see the fluid "swirling" in the reservoir while the engine is running. This is the return fluid coming back in from the rack and mixing in with the fluid going down into the pump "inlet".
The pump should be QUIET in operation at this point, and the steering wheel should turn very easily.
To drain the rack and pinion, make sure the engine is off. Then:
1. remove both front wheels
2. Find the inlet rubber line to the rack and pinion, which is right on the rack itself. The pressure line and the return line are on top of each other on the rack. Remove the clamp and pull the rubber line off. The reservoir will immediately drain, and a small amount of fluid will come from the rack as well. A pan will fit behind the drivers' wheel easily and catch the contents of the system.
3. With the steering wheel unlocked, grab the brake assembly and move from left to right. This will cause the wheel to turn and fluid will pump out of the rack itself. Move back and forth until the rack is nearly empty. Check the fluid coming out for contaminants. If dirt and other fragments come out, it will have to be flushed again.
4. Put the rubber line back on and refill the reservoir as stated above.
5. Start the engine, and allow the air to come up to the top. Then turn the steeering wheel back and forth. After running for awhile, the engine can be stopped, and the fluid drained again.
6. Continue to flushing the fluid from the rack until all the dirt has been pumped out. Fill the final time, and things should be fine.
GOOD LUCK!
Can you see the level markings on the clear reservoir. It has 2 sides....
1. Minimum and maximum levels for cold fluid, and
2. Minimum and maximum levels for hot fluid. If your reservoir is clean, you can see the amount of fluid inside.
A few questions:
1. What was the condition of the fluid that came out? was it really clean and red, or was it brownish? The Lexus uses DEXRON automatic transmission fluid for the power steering system. Many of us use synthetic transmission fluid like Mobil 1 or AMSOIL Universal transmission fluid.
2. Did you flush the rack and pinion of all old fluid before installing the new pump?
I will submit that if the fluid was really dirty when you changed the pump, there is still dirty fluid in the rack and pinion unit that must come out.
3. Is noise the only issue? How does the steering work? Is it normal, or is it harder to turn while making noise?
Bleeding of air occurs when the "return" line sends fluid from the rack back to the reservoir. The return line is the small line coming to either the side or bottom of the reservoir, while the supply side for the pump is the large line directly underneath the reservoir.
The pump fills by gravity on the large line.
I bleed my system by draining the rack, and filling the reservoir to the MAX HOT level before starting the engine. As soon as the engine starts, the fluid goes down to the rack under pressure, and the reservoir level drops.
My car is on a lift, so I SLOWLY turn the steering wheel left and right a few times, while leaving the cap on the reservoir off. I can see the air bubbles coming up to the top. Leaving the top off helps get rid of air trapped in the system.
Then I stop the engine and more bubbles come to the top. I wait until they stop coming, and refill the reservoir to the MAX COLD level.
Then I restart and allow to run 5 minutes, which gets the fluid hot. When all the air is out of the system, you can see the fluid "swirling" in the reservoir while the engine is running. This is the return fluid coming back in from the rack and mixing in with the fluid going down into the pump "inlet".
The pump should be QUIET in operation at this point, and the steering wheel should turn very easily.
To drain the rack and pinion, make sure the engine is off. Then:
1. remove both front wheels
2. Find the inlet rubber line to the rack and pinion, which is right on the rack itself. The pressure line and the return line are on top of each other on the rack. Remove the clamp and pull the rubber line off. The reservoir will immediately drain, and a small amount of fluid will come from the rack as well. A pan will fit behind the drivers' wheel easily and catch the contents of the system.
3. With the steering wheel unlocked, grab the brake assembly and move from left to right. This will cause the wheel to turn and fluid will pump out of the rack itself. Move back and forth until the rack is nearly empty. Check the fluid coming out for contaminants. If dirt and other fragments come out, it will have to be flushed again.
4. Put the rubber line back on and refill the reservoir as stated above.
5. Start the engine, and allow the air to come up to the top. Then turn the steeering wheel back and forth. After running for awhile, the engine can be stopped, and the fluid drained again.
6. Continue to flushing the fluid from the rack until all the dirt has been pumped out. Fill the final time, and things should be fine.
GOOD LUCK!
Jonny
12-25-07, 10:38 AM
#7
Jonny
Did you resolve this issue? I replaced my PS pump also and it's still whing like a *****, even after flushing the entire system and replacing the fluid. Also, fluid is just pouring out of the reservoir while I try to remove air in the system.
I've pretty much concluded my rack is shot. Can you shed some light on your solution?
Did you resolve this issue? I replaced my PS pump also and it's still whing like a *****, even after flushing the entire system and replacing the fluid. Also, fluid is just pouring out of the reservoir while I try to remove air in the system.
I've pretty much concluded my rack is shot. Can you shed some light on your solution?
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12-27-07, 08:20 AM
#8
Jonny
Did you resolve this issue? I replaced my PS pump also and it's still whing like a *****, even after flushing the entire system and replacing the fluid. Also, fluid is just pouring out of the reservoir while I try to remove air in the system.
I've pretty much concluded my rack is shot. Can you shed some light on your solution?
Did you resolve this issue? I replaced my PS pump also and it's still whing like a *****, even after flushing the entire system and replacing the fluid. Also, fluid is just pouring out of the reservoir while I try to remove air in the system.
I've pretty much concluded my rack is shot. Can you shed some light on your solution?
To be honest I haven't even looked at the problem since I made my post. Been busy moving and ice storms etc etc!
I am concluding the same thing - either the high pressure PS line is leaking or the rack is. If it is just the PS line, you can have a new one made for around $85. If it is the rack - well I guess Gazi is the man for that!
Let me know if you find anything and I will do the same. Regards,
Jonny
12-28-07, 08:40 AM
#9
OK folks, I think I may have a revelation.
There has been talk about the sensor screen within the power steering pump system throughout a few of the threads I found. Well, I think I may have found the problem.....maybe.
When I pulled the rack off to replace it, I pulled the actuator/sensor off the old rack to put on the new one (make sure you have a crescent wrench that has at least a 1 1/2" opening). I noticed the screen that folks talk about. Well mine was completely dirty and clogged. Could this be the reason that the PS pump is still whining even after replacing it?
I've attached a pic below. As you can see, I've already cleaned the screen.
There has been talk about the sensor screen within the power steering pump system throughout a few of the threads I found. Well, I think I may have found the problem.....maybe.
When I pulled the rack off to replace it, I pulled the actuator/sensor off the old rack to put on the new one (make sure you have a crescent wrench that has at least a 1 1/2" opening). I noticed the screen that folks talk about. Well mine was completely dirty and clogged. Could this be the reason that the PS pump is still whining even after replacing it?
I've attached a pic below. As you can see, I've already cleaned the screen.
12-28-07, 11:17 AM
#10
Well I cleaned the screen and reinstalled the the valve on the old rack. NO LUCK!
I installed the valve on the new rack and pinion and installed that. NO LUCK!
Therefore, I have replaced the pump and the rack and pinion and cleaned the screen and I still have the same problem.
The only thing left is the control valve. Could it be bad? Could it be clogged preventing fluid to flow through the system? Has anybody seen this before?
PLEASE HELP!
I installed the valve on the new rack and pinion and installed that. NO LUCK!
Therefore, I have replaced the pump and the rack and pinion and cleaned the screen and I still have the same problem.
The only thing left is the control valve. Could it be bad? Could it be clogged preventing fluid to flow through the system? Has anybody seen this before?
PLEASE HELP!
12-28-07, 11:45 AM
#11
Well I cleaned the screen and reinstalled the the valve on the old rack. NO LUCK!
I installed the valve on the new rack and pinion and installed that. NO LUCK!
Therefore, I have replaced the pump and the rack and pinion and cleaned the screen and I still have the same problem.
The only thing left is the control valve. Could it be bad? Could it be clogged preventing fluid to flow through the system? Has anybody seen this before?
PLEASE HELP!
I installed the valve on the new rack and pinion and installed that. NO LUCK!
Therefore, I have replaced the pump and the rack and pinion and cleaned the screen and I still have the same problem.
The only thing left is the control valve. Could it be bad? Could it be clogged preventing fluid to flow through the system? Has anybody seen this before?
PLEASE HELP!
Jonny
12-28-07, 02:09 PM
#12
It never ran dry. The system is acting exactly like it did before I replaced anything. PS pump is whining, the fluid is bubbling back into the reservoir. When I squeeze the line feeding the pump to the reservoir, I can feel that it is not a constant stream of fluid going into the pump, lots of turbulence and air. It's almost as if the return line is not supplying enough fluid to meet the demands of the pump
Proper bleeding is attempted by filling with fluid and turning the wheel back and forth, but bleeding never occurs. Right off the bat, the system is gurgling. I've replaced soccco many racks and pumps in my life, this one is definitely pissing me off.
I noticed a hole in the screen where debris may have pushed into the control valve. I think I'm gonna get another valve from Gazi and try that. I'm leaving for business tomorrow so I'll update when I get back.
12-28-07, 06:05 PM
#13
Well, I farted around with the flow control valve a little bit while it was off the car. I hooked up the valve and turned the car on.
I can see that the valve is pulling the plunger back into itself, but it's barely moving at all. I can't even see light coming through holes while shining a bright LED into both sides of the valve.
My assumption is that the valve is BAD and not pulling the plunger back enough to allow proper flow through the valve. Considering I've replaced both the PS pump and rack and pinion to no avail, it's the only thing left. I wish I had one local to try out but may have to bite the bullet and get one from Gazi.
Has anybody ever had this issue?
I can see that the valve is pulling the plunger back into itself, but it's barely moving at all. I can't even see light coming through holes while shining a bright LED into both sides of the valve.
My assumption is that the valve is BAD and not pulling the plunger back enough to allow proper flow through the valve. Considering I've replaced both the PS pump and rack and pinion to no avail, it's the only thing left. I wish I had one local to try out but may have to bite the bullet and get one from Gazi.
Has anybody ever had this issue?
01-09-08, 12:12 PM
#15
Final Update!
Ok, she's running perfect now.
I slapped the rack on the car along with the selenoid. I connected the pressure line and left off the return line from the rack. I took the belt off and spun the PS pump by hand to ensure fluid was flowing down to the rack and through the selenoid.
Once I saw fluid spooging out of the return outlet of the rack, I knew the selenoid was not clogged. BINGO!
Therefore, I connected the return line, put on the belt and filled up the reservoir. I turned the car on and started turning back and forth but the noise was still there. I then filled up the reservoir again to the top, it sucked it down and voila! Noise gone. Did a thorough bleeding and the steering is operating perfectly.
In the end, I think the root cause was 1) dirty selenoid filter and 2) low fluid. I replaced the pump as my first instinct but it may not have needed it. Oh well, $130 for a lifetime pump. The benefits in going through this study were plentiful including:
1) plugged the vacuum assist modulator and vacuum lines at the pump (thanks OLT!)
2) plugged the sensor at the rack ( no wires connected after 1JZ swap)
3) cleaned the selenoid filter
4) cleaned the reservoir filter
5) flushed the ENTIRE system and filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF fluid
6) did tons of cleaning on the undercarriage
7) great learning experience about how finicky the Lexus PS system is
Clean those filters folks! It's like night and day!
Ok, she's running perfect now.
I slapped the rack on the car along with the selenoid. I connected the pressure line and left off the return line from the rack. I took the belt off and spun the PS pump by hand to ensure fluid was flowing down to the rack and through the selenoid.
Once I saw fluid spooging out of the return outlet of the rack, I knew the selenoid was not clogged. BINGO!
Therefore, I connected the return line, put on the belt and filled up the reservoir. I turned the car on and started turning back and forth but the noise was still there. I then filled up the reservoir again to the top, it sucked it down and voila! Noise gone. Did a thorough bleeding and the steering is operating perfectly.
In the end, I think the root cause was 1) dirty selenoid filter and 2) low fluid. I replaced the pump as my first instinct but it may not have needed it. Oh well, $130 for a lifetime pump. The benefits in going through this study were plentiful including:
1) plugged the vacuum assist modulator and vacuum lines at the pump (thanks OLT!)
2) plugged the sensor at the rack ( no wires connected after 1JZ swap)
3) cleaned the selenoid filter
4) cleaned the reservoir filter
5) flushed the ENTIRE system and filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF fluid
6) did tons of cleaning on the undercarriage
7) great learning experience about how finicky the Lexus PS system is
Clean those filters folks! It's like night and day!
Last edited by shern; 01-09-08 at 12:19 PM.