2jzge Na-t No Start Problem
12-19-13, 11:25 AM
#1
2jzge Na-t No Start Problem
Alright I have the same thread posted in the supra forums but might be able to get some help here.......
Alright running into a dead-end with my supra. Some history 97 Na Supra, Over the past 5 months I have slowly been converting it to na-t, sorry if this ends up being a long read. Things I've done,,
Turbo kit
Deleted EGR
2jzgte Head gasket
Walbro pump
bosch 660cc hi imp inj
AEM 3.5 Map
GM IAT
AEM V1 EMS (1101 box)
AEM Wb
It has Bkr7e ngk plugs
Stock Distributor
Stock Wires
Stock ignition
Problem..... So upon my first start up with my car I altered the AEM base cal file for my Bosch 660cc inj. The car started and idled on its own, I backed the car out and cleaned the garage while the car idled, I then pulled the car back in and turned it off. Next day I went to start the car and it would only barely try to start. I had to feather the throttle for it to even try and when it did it would spit pop and miss. After trying a few different things and trying to start it it eventually fouled my first set of plugs.
I then figured I should just put the stock inj back in an replace the plugs with new. That is where I am now. Last night I put new plugs and my factory injectors back in. I loaded the AEM factory base cal and set up all of my sensors and they are registering correctly. I go to start the car and the exact same thing is happening. It misses and have to feather the throttle for it to even try I can smell fuel so I know it will eventually foul these plugs too. I even threw the stock ecu back in to see if it was my AEM and its still doing the same thing. So I know I'm getting fuel.... I know I am getting some spark. I know I put the timing belt on correctly as when top dead center (crank pulley line lines up with the Zero on the timing belt cover when #1 piston is up all the way and my cam gears line up with the marks on the upper belt cover. I marked the distributor as-well so I know that is in the exact same spot (pointing at #1 plug).
What has me stumped is this thing started one day and just stopped the next. Has anyone had a similar situation? Any ideas what else I need to check? I was hoping to get this thing to the tuners in the next couple of months but no way in this condition. Sorry for the long post but I would sleep better at night if I get this figured out lol.
Thanks
Alright running into a dead-end with my supra. Some history 97 Na Supra, Over the past 5 months I have slowly been converting it to na-t, sorry if this ends up being a long read. Things I've done,,
Turbo kit
Deleted EGR
2jzgte Head gasket
Walbro pump
bosch 660cc hi imp inj
AEM 3.5 Map
GM IAT
AEM V1 EMS (1101 box)
AEM Wb
It has Bkr7e ngk plugs
Stock Distributor
Stock Wires
Stock ignition
Problem..... So upon my first start up with my car I altered the AEM base cal file for my Bosch 660cc inj. The car started and idled on its own, I backed the car out and cleaned the garage while the car idled, I then pulled the car back in and turned it off. Next day I went to start the car and it would only barely try to start. I had to feather the throttle for it to even try and when it did it would spit pop and miss. After trying a few different things and trying to start it it eventually fouled my first set of plugs.
I then figured I should just put the stock inj back in an replace the plugs with new. That is where I am now. Last night I put new plugs and my factory injectors back in. I loaded the AEM factory base cal and set up all of my sensors and they are registering correctly. I go to start the car and the exact same thing is happening. It misses and have to feather the throttle for it to even try I can smell fuel so I know it will eventually foul these plugs too. I even threw the stock ecu back in to see if it was my AEM and its still doing the same thing. So I know I'm getting fuel.... I know I am getting some spark. I know I put the timing belt on correctly as when top dead center (crank pulley line lines up with the Zero on the timing belt cover when #1 piston is up all the way and my cam gears line up with the marks on the upper belt cover. I marked the distributor as-well so I know that is in the exact same spot (pointing at #1 plug).
What has me stumped is this thing started one day and just stopped the next. Has anyone had a similar situation? Any ideas what else I need to check? I was hoping to get this thing to the tuners in the next couple of months but no way in this condition. Sorry for the long post but I would sleep better at night if I get this figured out lol.
Thanks
12-19-13, 11:52 AM
#2
when you put the stock ecu back it did the same thing with the stock maf?
the aem base cal is normally set up for a 5 bar sensor I want to say, so when you set up the sensors did you remember to change that in the wizard and also the fuel/boost compensation table needs to be changed for it to run right. normally it would start but not run right. are you seeing 0 psi with the key on engine off?
only other thing that I can think would do that all of a sudden stops the motor from running right is when the rotor gets worn down in the distributor and I imagine you had the cap off to mark it so it got moved a little bit upon re installing. when they go you just loose those cylinders which stop making contact, which could explain why it would do that with both ecu's and it doesn't want to start. One time it went out on me on the middle of the road near an onramp.. which was not fun. barely got it to start and over to the side of the road and it then mysteriously started working again. Then a day later it left me stranded in a parking lot and that when I figured out what it was.
the aem base cal is normally set up for a 5 bar sensor I want to say, so when you set up the sensors did you remember to change that in the wizard and also the fuel/boost compensation table needs to be changed for it to run right. normally it would start but not run right. are you seeing 0 psi with the key on engine off?
only other thing that I can think would do that all of a sudden stops the motor from running right is when the rotor gets worn down in the distributor and I imagine you had the cap off to mark it so it got moved a little bit upon re installing. when they go you just loose those cylinders which stop making contact, which could explain why it would do that with both ecu's and it doesn't want to start. One time it went out on me on the middle of the road near an onramp.. which was not fun. barely got it to start and over to the side of the road and it then mysteriously started working again. Then a day later it left me stranded in a parking lot and that when I figured out what it was.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 12-19-13 at 11:56 AM.
12-19-13, 12:38 PM
#3
when you put the stock ecu back it did the same thing with the stock maf?
the aem base cal is normally set up for a 5 bar sensor I want to say, so when you set up the sensors did you remember to change that in the wizard and also the fuel/boost compensation table needs to be changed for it to run right. normally it would start but not run right. are you seeing 0 psi with the key on engine off?
only other thing that I can think would do that all of a sudden stops the motor from running right is when the rotor gets worn down in the distributor and I imagine you had the cap off to mark it so it got moved a little bit upon re installing. when they go you just loose those cylinders which stop making contact, which could explain why it would do that with both ecu's and it doesn't want to start. One time it went out on me on the middle of the road near an onramp.. which was not fun. barely got it to start and over to the side of the road and it then mysteriously started working again. Then a day later it left me stranded in a parking lot and that when I figured out what it was.
the aem base cal is normally set up for a 5 bar sensor I want to say, so when you set up the sensors did you remember to change that in the wizard and also the fuel/boost compensation table needs to be changed for it to run right. normally it would start but not run right. are you seeing 0 psi with the key on engine off?
only other thing that I can think would do that all of a sudden stops the motor from running right is when the rotor gets worn down in the distributor and I imagine you had the cap off to mark it so it got moved a little bit upon re installing. when they go you just loose those cylinders which stop making contact, which could explain why it would do that with both ecu's and it doesn't want to start. One time it went out on me on the middle of the road near an onramp.. which was not fun. barely got it to start and over to the side of the road and it then mysteriously started working again. Then a day later it left me stranded in a parking lot and that when I figured out what it was.
I did change the map to the 3.5 when I used the stock cal. however the reading on my ems was around 93kpa for the map? is that right? I guess I dont understand how that should read.
Also I did have the cap off my distributor quite a few times and didnt think to look at the prongs inside to see if there were worn, or the rotor. But its weird how it ran good at one point and the next day nothing.
12-19-13, 01:02 PM
#4
well the car wont run right without the stock maf at all, it may start but would fall flat on its face after that on most 300's so not sure how much that test tells us.
I think 93kpa is like 0 psi (14psi absoulte), but do yourself a massive favor and go to the units setting on the menu under configure or something like that (maybe ecu setup) cant remember, find it and change load units to PSI. hit ok. also in the same place where it says air fuel (AFR) change that from gasoline to something else, hit OK, then go back in and change it back to gasoline, and then hit ok. default it always reads wrong until you do that. welcome to the aem.
so far I am not hearing that much wrong if you did the wizard and changed that table like in the instructions.
so I would check the cap and rotor. usually it is the rotor, but changing both together is always a good idea.
don't forget to check your timing and set it in the software after you get it running. never assume its in the right place even if you marked it because it needs to be synched to the aem software as well.
I think 93kpa is like 0 psi (14psi absoulte), but do yourself a massive favor and go to the units setting on the menu under configure or something like that (maybe ecu setup) cant remember, find it and change load units to PSI. hit ok. also in the same place where it says air fuel (AFR) change that from gasoline to something else, hit OK, then go back in and change it back to gasoline, and then hit ok. default it always reads wrong until you do that. welcome to the aem.
so far I am not hearing that much wrong if you did the wizard and changed that table like in the instructions.
so I would check the cap and rotor. usually it is the rotor, but changing both together is always a good idea.
don't forget to check your timing and set it in the software after you get it running. never assume its in the right place even if you marked it because it needs to be synched to the aem software as well.
12-19-13, 01:27 PM
#5
well the car wont run right without the stock maf at all, it may start but would fall flat on its face after that on most 300's so not sure how much that test tells us.
I think 93kpa is like 0 psi (14psi absoulte), but do yourself a massive favor and go to the units setting on the menu under configure or something like that (maybe ecu setup) cant remember, find it and change load units to PSI. hit ok. also in the same place where it says air fuel (AFR) change that from gasoline to something else, hit OK, then go back in and change it back to gasoline, and then hit ok. default it always reads wrong until you do that. welcome to the aem.
so far I am not hearing that much wrong if you did the wizard and changed that table like in the instructions.
so I would check the cap and rotor. usually it is the rotor, but changing both together is always a good idea.
don't forget to check your timing and set it in the software after you get it running. never assume its in the right place even if you marked it because it needs to be synched to the aem software as well.
I think 93kpa is like 0 psi (14psi absoulte), but do yourself a massive favor and go to the units setting on the menu under configure or something like that (maybe ecu setup) cant remember, find it and change load units to PSI. hit ok. also in the same place where it says air fuel (AFR) change that from gasoline to something else, hit OK, then go back in and change it back to gasoline, and then hit ok. default it always reads wrong until you do that. welcome to the aem.
so far I am not hearing that much wrong if you did the wizard and changed that table like in the instructions.
so I would check the cap and rotor. usually it is the rotor, but changing both together is always a good idea.
don't forget to check your timing and set it in the software after you get it running. never assume its in the right place even if you marked it because it needs to be synched to the aem software as well.
How to you sink the aem software timing? Thats where I am confused? Right now the only thing I did on the engine side for timing is align the crank to zero mark tdc and camshafts facing up while distributor rotor faces cyl#1.
12-19-13, 02:22 PM
#7
that is how you set the timing mechanically and is half the battle. it should get it to start that way.
then you go to ecu setup, set ignition timing, and then enter a value in the box and click on the checkbox next to it. once you do that it locks the timing to whats in the box and you can check the crank with a light, and then if its off you hit the buttons on the aem software to get the 2 to match up. you do not rotate the distributor to set the timing in the aem.
check your rotor first though you can generally get it started with a wide range of timing values.
then you go to ecu setup, set ignition timing, and then enter a value in the box and click on the checkbox next to it. once you do that it locks the timing to whats in the box and you can check the crank with a light, and then if its off you hit the buttons on the aem software to get the 2 to match up. you do not rotate the distributor to set the timing in the aem.
check your rotor first though you can generally get it started with a wide range of timing values.
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12-19-13, 05:37 PM
#8
that is how you set the timing mechanically and is half the battle. it should get it to start that way.
then you go to ecu setup, set ignition timing, and then enter a value in the box and click on the checkbox next to it. once you do that it locks the timing to whats in the box and you can check the crank with a light, and then if its off you hit the buttons on the aem software to get the 2 to match up. you do not rotate the distributor to set the timing in the aem.
check your rotor first though you can generally get it started with a wide range of timing values.
then you go to ecu setup, set ignition timing, and then enter a value in the box and click on the checkbox next to it. once you do that it locks the timing to whats in the box and you can check the crank with a light, and then if its off you hit the buttons on the aem software to get the 2 to match up. you do not rotate the distributor to set the timing in the aem.
check your rotor first though you can generally get it started with a wide range of timing values.
12-23-13, 10:57 AM
#13
that rotor was toast, you can kind of see where it was messing up the cap in a line around the edge.
hopefully the distributor is fine, and it probably is since its starting its getting stat sync from cam and crank.
look for timing errors under the advanced cam crank setup to confirm.
looks like your map sensor is setup wrong. its starting but its not getting the right load signal it seems and it shuts off cause it runs so rich. at least I saw -2 psi on the screen when it was around 800 rpm's and it should be more like -8-9 psi or -16-18inhg. at -2 psi you would be on the throttle alot and almost into boost which is above 0 psi, so it is injecting way more fuel than what you need to idle. for every psi it ups the fuel in the amount in the boost comp table, so you are getting several times the fuel you need at -2 psi compared to -8 psi. get the map sensor to read correctly and the issue will go away.
the number in the aem should match your boost gauge. if your boost gauge is in inhg (vacuum part) you just half it and thats roughly (not exactly) what psi you should see in the software. most gauges are usually inhg in vacuum and psi in boost.
so if the gauge says -16inhg after you start it then the aem better be around -8 psi or something is wrong.
how did you set up the boost fuel comp table like I mentioned earlier?
there should be a straight line that goes through 0 on the graph from -14 to like 30 something psi I forget its on the aem instructions for how to use a 3.5 bar.
hopefully the distributor is fine, and it probably is since its starting its getting stat sync from cam and crank.
look for timing errors under the advanced cam crank setup to confirm.
looks like your map sensor is setup wrong. its starting but its not getting the right load signal it seems and it shuts off cause it runs so rich. at least I saw -2 psi on the screen when it was around 800 rpm's and it should be more like -8-9 psi or -16-18inhg. at -2 psi you would be on the throttle alot and almost into boost which is above 0 psi, so it is injecting way more fuel than what you need to idle. for every psi it ups the fuel in the amount in the boost comp table, so you are getting several times the fuel you need at -2 psi compared to -8 psi. get the map sensor to read correctly and the issue will go away.
the number in the aem should match your boost gauge. if your boost gauge is in inhg (vacuum part) you just half it and thats roughly (not exactly) what psi you should see in the software. most gauges are usually inhg in vacuum and psi in boost.
so if the gauge says -16inhg after you start it then the aem better be around -8 psi or something is wrong.
how did you set up the boost fuel comp table like I mentioned earlier?
there should be a straight line that goes through 0 on the graph from -14 to like 30 something psi I forget its on the aem instructions for how to use a 3.5 bar.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 12-23-13 at 11:07 AM.
12-23-13, 07:56 PM
#15
that rotor was toast, you can kind of see where it was messing up the cap in a line around the edge.
hopefully the distributor is fine, and it probably is since its starting its getting stat sync from cam and crank.
look for timing errors under the advanced cam crank setup to confirm.
looks like your map sensor is setup wrong. its starting but its not getting the right load signal it seems and it shuts off cause it runs so rich. at least I saw -2 psi on the screen when it was around 800 rpm's and it should be more like -8-9 psi or -16-18inhg. at -2 psi you would be on the throttle alot and almost into boost which is above 0 psi, so it is injecting way more fuel than what you need to idle. for every psi it ups the fuel in the amount in the boost comp table, so you are getting several times the fuel you need at -2 psi compared to -8 psi. get the map sensor to read correctly and the issue will go away.
the number in the aem should match your boost gauge. if your boost gauge is in inhg (vacuum part) you just half it and thats roughly (not exactly) what psi you should see in the software. most gauges are usually inhg in vacuum and psi in boost.
so if the gauge says -16inhg after you start it then the aem better be around -8 psi or something is wrong.
how did you set up the boost fuel comp table like I mentioned earlier?
there should be a straight line that goes through 0 on the graph from -14 to like 30 something psi I forget its on the aem instructions for how to use a 3.5 bar.
hopefully the distributor is fine, and it probably is since its starting its getting stat sync from cam and crank.
look for timing errors under the advanced cam crank setup to confirm.
looks like your map sensor is setup wrong. its starting but its not getting the right load signal it seems and it shuts off cause it runs so rich. at least I saw -2 psi on the screen when it was around 800 rpm's and it should be more like -8-9 psi or -16-18inhg. at -2 psi you would be on the throttle alot and almost into boost which is above 0 psi, so it is injecting way more fuel than what you need to idle. for every psi it ups the fuel in the amount in the boost comp table, so you are getting several times the fuel you need at -2 psi compared to -8 psi. get the map sensor to read correctly and the issue will go away.
the number in the aem should match your boost gauge. if your boost gauge is in inhg (vacuum part) you just half it and thats roughly (not exactly) what psi you should see in the software. most gauges are usually inhg in vacuum and psi in boost.
so if the gauge says -16inhg after you start it then the aem better be around -8 psi or something is wrong.
how did you set up the boost fuel comp table like I mentioned earlier?
there should be a straight line that goes through 0 on the graph from -14 to like 30 something psi I forget its on the aem instructions for how to use a 3.5 bar.