M2 performance axlebacks for sc300/sc400
08-19-14, 05:53 PM
#17
I respect KahnBB6's opinion on stuff enough that I decided to give the M2 (Manzo) axlebacks a try after listening to a video clip or two. They arrived today, and I had them installed barely 30 minutes later, including removal of the stock ones! I couldn't believe how easy the process was; didn't even have to jack the car up or use ramps. True bolt-on, and nearly spot-on alignment within the bumper cutouts.
I haven't had a chance to take it out for a road test yet, but it sounded pretty good in the driveway. The 4.5" tips are a touch big visually for the lines of the car, IMO, but not so bad as to be cartoonish. I think 3.5" to 4" would be perfect. The M2s are a shade over 10 lbs each. I haven't weighed the stock mufflers yet, but I would guess they're in the 12-15 lb range. It wasn't as big of a difference as I expected from reviews, and most of that difference can probably be attributed to the water sloshing around in the stockers. Craftsmanship looks to be quite good, but durability will be the bigger question.
I haven't had a chance to take it out for a road test yet, but it sounded pretty good in the driveway. The 4.5" tips are a touch big visually for the lines of the car, IMO, but not so bad as to be cartoonish. I think 3.5" to 4" would be perfect. The M2s are a shade over 10 lbs each. I haven't weighed the stock mufflers yet, but I would guess they're in the 12-15 lb range. It wasn't as big of a difference as I expected from reviews, and most of that difference can probably be attributed to the water sloshing around in the stockers. Craftsmanship looks to be quite good, but durability will be the bigger question.
08-19-14, 11:31 PM
#18
t2d2, thank you for that compliment!
As you found out yourself they are very well made mufflers. For a basic bolt on system they are hard to beat. I do agree that the tips are a tad large but not as large as some other bolt-in dual kits on the market. They could have done with slightly smaller tips but I agree with you that they don't overwhelm the stock lines of the car. I liked these more than the Tanabe dual or Borla dual systems.
Durability will be good. In the couple of years I've had mine installed the car has been mostly in southern California, one year in Florida with lots of rain and humidity and across the US twice in various southern and midwestern states. The mufflers still look great even though I should do more to polish them. They have never lost their sound or worn out prematurely.
Sound difference... I guess is not too much of a big change from stock but it's certainly there. You'll notice they'll settle in tone within the first month. Drive the car spiritedly for a bit and you'll appreciate the sound
Aggressive but not over the top. I don't think I've heard them on a 1UZ car before, just NA 2JZ SC's which in my opinion are much harder to find the perfect balance of sound for. V8's just naturally sound pleasing to the ear so I think this bodes very well for you.
Also... I am running mine with the stock resonators and I prefer it that way so long as the car is non-turbo. On your SC400 you may experience great sound with the OEM resonators or, being a V8, you may have good luck removing them.
As you found out yourself they are very well made mufflers. For a basic bolt on system they are hard to beat. I do agree that the tips are a tad large but not as large as some other bolt-in dual kits on the market. They could have done with slightly smaller tips but I agree with you that they don't overwhelm the stock lines of the car. I liked these more than the Tanabe dual or Borla dual systems.
Durability will be good. In the couple of years I've had mine installed the car has been mostly in southern California, one year in Florida with lots of rain and humidity and across the US twice in various southern and midwestern states. The mufflers still look great even though I should do more to polish them. They have never lost their sound or worn out prematurely.
Sound difference... I guess is not too much of a big change from stock but it's certainly there. You'll notice they'll settle in tone within the first month. Drive the car spiritedly for a bit and you'll appreciate the sound
Aggressive but not over the top. I don't think I've heard them on a 1UZ car before, just NA 2JZ SC's which in my opinion are much harder to find the perfect balance of sound for. V8's just naturally sound pleasing to the ear so I think this bodes very well for you.Also... I am running mine with the stock resonators and I prefer it that way so long as the car is non-turbo. On your SC400 you may experience great sound with the OEM resonators or, being a V8, you may have good luck removing them.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-19-14 at 11:36 PM.
08-20-14, 12:59 PM
#19
No, thank you. 
So far, so good. I haven't taken it out on the highway yet, but around town it sounds pretty good up to 45 mph. (Untested any higher.) There's a meaty growl under acceleration, and no clangs, vibrations or signs of imperfections. It's deeper without being significantly louder.
It could benefit from a bit more burble and less of a single-note quality -- it sort of comes across as droning -- but maybe Phase II (deleting the sub-cat and possibly the two resonators; just gotta figure out my Y-pipe options) will aid in that. Anything I can do to further unlock the 1UZ's potential, the better! The transmission solenoid bypass brought it to life, and now the exhaust doesn't sound like that of a Prius.
I'm surprised you mentioned liking the M2 more than Tanabe's duals. Isn't the M2 a direct copy? Looking at pictures, I wouldn't be surprised if they're made on the same assembly line.
So far, so good. I haven't taken it out on the highway yet, but around town it sounds pretty good up to 45 mph. (Untested any higher.) There's a meaty growl under acceleration, and no clangs, vibrations or signs of imperfections. It's deeper without being significantly louder.
It could benefit from a bit more burble and less of a single-note quality -- it sort of comes across as droning -- but maybe Phase II (deleting the sub-cat and possibly the two resonators; just gotta figure out my Y-pipe options) will aid in that. Anything I can do to further unlock the 1UZ's potential, the better! The transmission solenoid bypass brought it to life, and now the exhaust doesn't sound like that of a Prius.
I'm surprised you mentioned liking the M2 more than Tanabe's duals. Isn't the M2 a direct copy? Looking at pictures, I wouldn't be surprised if they're made on the same assembly line.
08-20-14, 05:01 PM
#20
There is a bit of drone under some circumstances but to me it's mild. I've had a Tanabe Racing Medallion (a cruise missile) on my old H22 Prelude and with or without the silencer it would drone like crazy. I later switched it out for an RS*R flat black muffler. The M2's aren't like the Racing Medallion.
My final modification to their sound will be my 2JZGTE swap to let the turbochargers muffle things a bit. I actually wonder if they will render them too quiet.
To my knowledge the M2's are not a direct copy of the Tanabe duals. They sound different and visually they are very different other than that the very basic shapes are similar. The tips alone are not at all the same thing. If I'm wrong and they are indeed copies and also made on the same assembly line... I'll be surprised.
Personally, I like Tanabe's quality of product very much but they don't always make something that visually and aurally suits the car. It's more like you're buying the Tanabe brand sound and are wanting your CAR to conform to the Tanabe style. The M2 system isn't perfect in this regard either but I find it much more subtle in those respects.
My final modification to their sound will be my 2JZGTE swap to let the turbochargers muffle things a bit. I actually wonder if they will render them too quiet.
To my knowledge the M2's are not a direct copy of the Tanabe duals. They sound different and visually they are very different other than that the very basic shapes are similar. The tips alone are not at all the same thing. If I'm wrong and they are indeed copies and also made on the same assembly line... I'll be surprised.
Personally, I like Tanabe's quality of product very much but they don't always make something that visually and aurally suits the car. It's more like you're buying the Tanabe brand sound and are wanting your CAR to conform to the Tanabe style. The M2 system isn't perfect in this regard either but I find it much more subtle in those respects.
08-20-14, 10:41 PM
#22
t2d2, maybe maybe you're right. I still think the tips look slightly different but after looking at some pictures online of both I have to say there is plenty of similarity. Might explain why it's hard to find them for sale outside of ebay :/ If the consensus you read pretty much says that they're copies then as I said in the post above.... I am now surprised 
I didn't really consider that when I bought them. Maybe looking at so many exhaust systems one after another colored my comparison but I did listen to the Tanabe system on an SC (their own promotional video) and I didn't like how it sounded compared to the M2 system.
Aside, I've argued this before that it's very hard to tell exactly how any exhaust note sounds from some online videos because the sampling rate is so cripplingly limited. Having worked as a sound recordist in movies and using professional monitors to mix video edits where the smallest details are crucial makes me just want to listen to many, many videos before drawing a conclusion.
I said earlier in this thread I would post a video of the exhaust note with a professional mic. I never got around to it. If anyone still wants to hear it I may be able to when work lightens up after the weekend.
I didn't really consider that when I bought them. Maybe looking at so many exhaust systems one after another colored my comparison but I did listen to the Tanabe system on an SC (their own promotional video) and I didn't like how it sounded compared to the M2 system.
Aside, I've argued this before that it's very hard to tell exactly how any exhaust note sounds from some online videos because the sampling rate is so cripplingly limited. Having worked as a sound recordist in movies and using professional monitors to mix video edits where the smallest details are crucial makes me just want to listen to many, many videos before drawing a conclusion.
I said earlier in this thread I would post a video of the exhaust note with a professional mic. I never got around to it. If anyone still wants to hear it I may be able to when work lightens up after the weekend.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-20-14 at 11:50 PM. Reason: Grammatical correction
08-20-14, 11:40 PM
#23
I bought a set labeled as Manzo, which is the owner of M2 Performance as far as I can tell, but it has the same part # as the M2s and arrived in a M2 box. The price was a little bit lower than the M2s. Different prices for different marketing angles? I bet if one were to dig deep enough, they would find a relationship between Manzo and Tanabe...
I liked that you brought the perspective of a sound engineer to the subject. I value that opinion a lot more than someone who may think fart cans actually sound good! I imagine there are a lot of variables to how the same exhaust setup can sound on two different 20 year old cars.
I liked that you brought the perspective of a sound engineer to the subject. I value that opinion a lot more than someone who may think fart cans actually sound good! I imagine there are a lot of variables to how the same exhaust setup can sound on two different 20 year old cars.
08-21-14, 12:10 AM
#24
^^ I think you'd probably be right. So Manzo/M2 are the same. Maybe Manzo licenses from M2. If there is a relationship with Tanabe they may even license out the design and I'll bet you the one condition is that the sales and distribution network is probably limited as per some legal agreements whereas Tanabe can market just about anywhere. Speculating there but anything is possible in the world of legal contracts.
I'm not an ace sound engineer but I've been doing aspects of it for about fifteen years. I did it for a while and still do for myself but it's a tough market professionally. On sets the variables are more based on tight schedules, monitoring 3-4 channels at the same time, potential radio interference, random noise from things like compressor motors, airplanes, lawn mowers and utterly random things you can't predict. The position of the microphones in relation to the subjects who are constantly moving is the biggest thing. The equipment is always 48kHz sampling and the mics have to pick up a lot of tonal range to be mixed down later. Modern post-film cameras are the same way: shooting way more information than needed at 4k to pull out what you want in the end at 2k.
As it applies to evaluating exhaust notes there *are* some good videos out there. Tanabe's demo was one of them and Flowmaster has some great professionally recorded demos of their muffler line. Camera phones are getting so much better these days and they're getting close but they aren't the same thing as a Sennheiser shotgun mic hooked into a Zoom H4N recorder.
Some of it is also the way the compressed videos are uploaded directly from the phone. There is good H.264 *.mp4 implementation and bad H.264 implementation.
There are plenty of variables in exhaust design as well and to that end I am a fascinated sideline observer of exhaust pulse theory. I am definitely *not* qualified on that dense subject There is a "moment" spoken about in the exhaust pulse cycle that you have to be aware of apart from the way the mufflers themselves resonate with different engine layouts and header designs. Your 1UZ will sound totally different than my 2JZ-GE with this same setup (actually a comparison video set would be fun to post up!). I think the physics of that is far more advanced than the usual way professional sound is captured until you get into the mixing booth and need to pay attention to specific frequencies when something phases this way or that do to some variable.
Two different mistresses One is about the smile on your face when you take a drive across town in the present moment and the other is all the work that goes into selling a pre-made experience within a few short seconds or minutes of a recording.
I'm not an ace sound engineer but I've been doing aspects of it for about fifteen years. I did it for a while and still do for myself but it's a tough market professionally. On sets the variables are more based on tight schedules, monitoring 3-4 channels at the same time, potential radio interference, random noise from things like compressor motors, airplanes, lawn mowers and utterly random things you can't predict. The position of the microphones in relation to the subjects who are constantly moving is the biggest thing. The equipment is always 48kHz sampling and the mics have to pick up a lot of tonal range to be mixed down later. Modern post-film cameras are the same way: shooting way more information than needed at 4k to pull out what you want in the end at 2k.
As it applies to evaluating exhaust notes there *are* some good videos out there. Tanabe's demo was one of them and Flowmaster has some great professionally recorded demos of their muffler line. Camera phones are getting so much better these days and they're getting close but they aren't the same thing as a Sennheiser shotgun mic hooked into a Zoom H4N recorder.
Some of it is also the way the compressed videos are uploaded directly from the phone. There is good H.264 *.mp4 implementation and bad H.264 implementation.
There are plenty of variables in exhaust design as well and to that end I am a fascinated sideline observer of exhaust pulse theory. I am definitely *not* qualified on that dense subject
There is a "moment" spoken about in the exhaust pulse cycle that you have to be aware of apart from the way the mufflers themselves resonate with different engine layouts and header designs. Your 1UZ will sound totally different than my 2JZ-GE with this same setup (actually a comparison video set would be fun to post up!). I think the physics of that is far more advanced than the usual way professional sound is captured until you get into the mixing booth and need to pay attention to specific frequencies when something phases this way or that do to some variable.Two different mistresses
One is about the smile on your face when you take a drive across town in the present moment and the other is all the work that goes into selling a pre-made experience within a few short seconds or minutes of a recording.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-21-14 at 12:28 AM.
08-22-14, 03:50 AM
#28
Edit: I've removed the picture. That was the limit of the crappy iPhone 5S lens. I'll take another when I can get through with work this weekend. The one posted was originally for the SF Gixxer_Drew suspension thread to demonstrate average ride height with that suspension. I'll use my Canon this time.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-22-14 at 06:57 PM.