R154 - Ridiculously high clutch engagement
05-14-13, 01:56 PM
#1
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R154 - Ridiculously high clutch engagement
I've been fighting this for a while now - No, the clutch is not installed backwards.
I have replaced everything there is to replace - Master, Slave, Line, Flywheel, pressure plate and disc, and this damn thing is literally ALL THE WAY at the top of the pedal. I have threaded the adjustment on the master cylinder completely out. Any ideas?
I have replaced everything there is to replace - Master, Slave, Line, Flywheel, pressure plate and disc, and this damn thing is literally ALL THE WAY at the top of the pedal. I have threaded the adjustment on the master cylinder completely out. Any ideas?
05-15-13, 06:42 AM
#2
Do these cars have clutch fork fulcrums that wear out? When you depress the clutch are you able to peak in somehow and see if anything is flexing / moving. Have you tried adjusting the other way on the clutch engagement? Properly bled the clutch line?
05-15-13, 08:43 AM
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adjusting engagement the other way causes massive slip. The clutch line is properly bled, that much i am absolutely positive of. I have significant actuation of the arm.
05-15-13, 09:25 AM
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I'm adjusting the threaded rod on the back of the clutch pedal. adjusting this away from the pedal raises your pedal height and allows the master to actuate more - bringing your engagement point higher up.
FWIW, I have also adjusted the top stop out almost as far as it can go
05-15-13, 09:36 AM
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if you adjust the rod, make sure you adjust the pedal stop as well, or else the rod will be too long when the pedal is out, and you'll kill the throw out bearing. The rod should move around freely when the pedal is out... no pressure from the master cylinder.
05-15-13, 10:22 AM
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I'll double check my stop. The rod is pretty tight. I didn't know it was supposed to move free - I always assumed you adjust the stop down right to the point where it is tight.
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08-04-17, 08:41 AM
#11
I am having this problem as well. I'll wake this from the dead to see if there is more info out there. My engagement point is HIGH and razor thin. The car is incredibly hard to drive, especially in bumper to bumper traffic on steep hills. Hills are HELL in my car. For some reason I have to rev super high to not stall on a hill. Its embarrassing.
08-04-17, 01:06 PM
#12
It doesn't sound normal to me, studiogeek :/
I daily my R154 and I regularly take it up hills and mountain inclines without issues with the pedal's takeup. The only time it would be seriously high is if my clutch were getting near worn out. Granted, in mine I'm just running an OEM Toyota MKIII Turbo clutch and pressure plate. A Southbend organic face street 365ft-lb clutch kit will be my next stage up from that once I go turbo.
What type and brand clutch are you using in yours? And when was the last time you replaced your clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder?
I had a weird issue some time back where I wore out one of these OEM Toyota clutches prematurely due to my 20+ year old SC3 clutch master cylinder being worn but still functional. My R154 slave cylinder was very new. I had the clutch master replaced with a new clutch and the problem went away. Still no weird high takeup point however.
I have read about less than ideal drivability with puck clutches and very high clamping loads (which is also a very strong reason to disable the NSS and always start the engine in neutral with all the added clamping pressure; it's the same with both R154's and V160's). I've heard of better experiences with people running twin clutch kits such as those from Exedy and especially OS Giken but that's getting fairly expensive for a clutch setup. The OSG twin and triple kits also include a push to pull conversion mechanism. I know they are high quality and are positively reviewed.
Southbend sells a K16063-SS-TZ full face clutch single disc kit they call an "endurance" setup that is rated up to 465 ft-lbs for about $750. Up from there they only sell puck clutch kits rated 550 ft-lbs and 600 ft-lbs for the same price. I've always heard good things about their kits from the Supra guys in regards to their quality and drivability.
I daily my R154 and I regularly take it up hills and mountain inclines without issues with the pedal's takeup. The only time it would be seriously high is if my clutch were getting near worn out. Granted, in mine I'm just running an OEM Toyota MKIII Turbo clutch and pressure plate. A Southbend organic face street 365ft-lb clutch kit will be my next stage up from that once I go turbo.
What type and brand clutch are you using in yours? And when was the last time you replaced your clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder?
I had a weird issue some time back where I wore out one of these OEM Toyota clutches prematurely due to my 20+ year old SC3 clutch master cylinder being worn but still functional. My R154 slave cylinder was very new. I had the clutch master replaced with a new clutch and the problem went away. Still no weird high takeup point however.
I have read about less than ideal drivability with puck clutches and very high clamping loads (which is also a very strong reason to disable the NSS and always start the engine in neutral with all the added clamping pressure; it's the same with both R154's and V160's). I've heard of better experiences with people running twin clutch kits such as those from Exedy and especially OS Giken but that's getting fairly expensive for a clutch setup. The OSG twin and triple kits also include a push to pull conversion mechanism. I know they are high quality and are positively reviewed.
Southbend sells a K16063-SS-TZ full face clutch single disc kit they call an "endurance" setup that is rated up to 465 ft-lbs for about $750. Up from there they only sell puck clutch kits rated 550 ft-lbs and 600 ft-lbs for the same price. I've always heard good things about their kits from the Supra guys in regards to their quality and drivability.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 08-04-17 at 01:11 PM.
08-21-17, 03:34 AM
#13
It doesn't sound normal to me, studiogeek :/
I daily my R154 and I regularly take it up hills and mountain inclines without issues with the pedal's takeup. The only time it would be seriously high is if my clutch were getting near worn out. Granted, in mine I'm just running an OEM Toyota MKIII Turbo clutch and pressure plate. A Southbend organic face street 365ft-lb clutch kit will be my next stage up from that once I go turbo.
What type and brand clutch are you using in yours? And when was the last time you replaced your clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder?
I had a weird issue some time back where I wore out one of these OEM Toyota clutches prematurely due to my 20+ year old SC3 clutch master cylinder being worn but still functional. My R154 slave cylinder was very new. I had the clutch master replaced with a new clutch and the problem went away. Still no weird high takeup point however.
I have read about less than ideal drivability with puck clutches and very high clamping loads (which is also a very strong reason to disable the NSS and always start the engine in neutral with all the added clamping pressure; it's the same with both R154's and V160's). I've heard of better experiences with people running twin clutch kits such as those from Exedy and especially OS Giken but that's getting fairly expensive for a clutch setup. The OSG twin and triple kits also include a push to pull conversion mechanism. I know they are high quality and are positively reviewed.
Southbend sells a K16063-SS-TZ full face clutch single disc kit they call an "endurance" setup that is rated up to 465 ft-lbs for about $750. Up from there they only sell puck clutch kits rated 550 ft-lbs and 600 ft-lbs for the same price. I've always heard good things about their kits from the Supra guys in regards to their quality and drivability.
I daily my R154 and I regularly take it up hills and mountain inclines without issues with the pedal's takeup. The only time it would be seriously high is if my clutch were getting near worn out. Granted, in mine I'm just running an OEM Toyota MKIII Turbo clutch and pressure plate. A Southbend organic face street 365ft-lb clutch kit will be my next stage up from that once I go turbo.
What type and brand clutch are you using in yours? And when was the last time you replaced your clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder?
I had a weird issue some time back where I wore out one of these OEM Toyota clutches prematurely due to my 20+ year old SC3 clutch master cylinder being worn but still functional. My R154 slave cylinder was very new. I had the clutch master replaced with a new clutch and the problem went away. Still no weird high takeup point however.
I have read about less than ideal drivability with puck clutches and very high clamping loads (which is also a very strong reason to disable the NSS and always start the engine in neutral with all the added clamping pressure; it's the same with both R154's and V160's). I've heard of better experiences with people running twin clutch kits such as those from Exedy and especially OS Giken but that's getting fairly expensive for a clutch setup. The OSG twin and triple kits also include a push to pull conversion mechanism. I know they are high quality and are positively reviewed.
Southbend sells a K16063-SS-TZ full face clutch single disc kit they call an "endurance" setup that is rated up to 465 ft-lbs for about $750. Up from there they only sell puck clutch kits rated 550 ft-lbs and 600 ft-lbs for the same price. I've always heard good things about their kits from the Supra guys in regards to their quality and drivability.
Thanks for your reply. (I lost this thread ;-)
I am using a Clutchmasters FX400. This is my third and the all released high. It's extra tricky because you travel a long distance to get to the high engagement point, it's razor thin so you have to nail it, my acceleration "curve?" is super aggressive so a tiny bit of pedal revs high. This combination of elements is likely why it's so hard to drive in general. Is my acceleration "curve?" something I can adjust in my tune? I have read a few others complain of the FX400 release point being high. I will give them a call this week to chat about this.
The slave was replaced last year and the master was looked over by my mechanic recently but I'm not sure how. When I was looking for something to replace, he did not seem to suspect that as my problem. If you think it will help, I'll replace it. OEM only I take it?
I am considering a twin disk but I really can't afford a 2K clutch right now. I am tempted to sell the whole setup and go with a CD009. The car is making 655hp now if that changes your suggestions.
Thanks again Kahn!
08-21-17, 05:10 AM
#14
All about the clutch and pressure plate you use .
The Clutchmaster FX400 kit (clutch / pressure plate) holds I believe 170% more torque than stock . The more torque you throw on a single disk clutch the more they become like ON / OFF switches as you are experiencing , harder to drive .
I have exactly the same clutch that came with the W58 trans on one of the 1997 SC300 5speed . Once you start making power , consider going AT LEAST with a proven dual disk . Might be more expensive but at the end of the day , they will hold more power , better engagement (not like on/off switches) and you won't be going through 3 of them or as fast as you have done on that FX400.
The Clutchmaster FX400 kit (clutch / pressure plate) holds I believe 170% more torque than stock . The more torque you throw on a single disk clutch the more they become like ON / OFF switches as you are experiencing , harder to drive .
I have exactly the same clutch that came with the W58 trans on one of the 1997 SC300 5speed . Once you start making power , consider going AT LEAST with a proven dual disk . Might be more expensive but at the end of the day , they will hold more power , better engagement (not like on/off switches) and you won't be going through 3 of them or as fast as you have done on that FX400.
08-21-17, 01:14 PM
#15
All about the clutch and pressure plate you use .
The Clutchmaster FX400 kit (clutch / pressure plate) holds I believe 170% more torque than stock . The more torque you throw on a single disk clutch the more they become like ON / OFF switches as you are experiencing , harder to drive .
I have exactly the same clutch that came with the W58 trans on one of the 1997 SC300 5speed . Once you start making power , consider going AT LEAST with a proven dual disk . Might be more expensive but at the end of the day , they will hold more power , better engagement (not like on/off switches) and you won't be going through 3 of them or as fast as you have done on that FX400.
The Clutchmaster FX400 kit (clutch / pressure plate) holds I believe 170% more torque than stock . The more torque you throw on a single disk clutch the more they become like ON / OFF switches as you are experiencing , harder to drive .
I have exactly the same clutch that came with the W58 trans on one of the 1997 SC300 5speed . Once you start making power , consider going AT LEAST with a proven dual disk . Might be more expensive but at the end of the day , they will hold more power , better engagement (not like on/off switches) and you won't be going through 3 of them or as fast as you have done on that FX400.
Thank you!