MKIII R154 shift housing extension?
05-10-13, 08:01 PM
#1
MKIII R154 shift housing extension?
I KNOW I KNOW, this has been covered a lot, but every other thread I've looked at has a different length for the extension, some say 2 inches, some say 3, and driftmotion says 4.75".
I need a definite answer on how much I need to extend my MK3 shifter housing and linkage for a sc400.
Thanks!
I need a definite answer on how much I need to extend my MK3 shifter housing and linkage for a sc400.
Thanks!
01-27-14, 09:32 AM
#3
Need some further SOLID clarification this :
My car is an original 5pd ('92) and there's different opinions on R154 shifter extension lengths. I have searched around and referenced THIS THREAD as well. Again this is for an OEM shift hole & not an Auto. Not sure if 95+ shift hole locations varies from 92-94..
Driftmotion recommends 4.75 however I've seen posts of 3" to 4" (.25" incriments).
Please indicate which shift levers being used as well. Looking to get the RIGHT placement & good shift points w/o hitting the console.
TIA
Rik
My car is an original 5pd ('92) and there's different opinions on R154 shifter extension lengths. I have searched around and referenced THIS THREAD as well. Again this is for an OEM shift hole & not an Auto. Not sure if 95+ shift hole locations varies from 92-94..
Driftmotion recommends 4.75 however I've seen posts of 3" to 4" (.25" incriments).
Please indicate which shift levers being used as well. Looking to get the RIGHT placement & good shift points w/o hitting the console.
TIA
Rik
01-27-14, 12:20 PM
#4
it depends if your shifter is straight or has a bend in it. which shifter is on your r154?
straight ones have a bolt on the bottom and work on remote shifter cage transmissions like 95+ w58's and the later model soarer/chaser r154's (want to say 95+ but not sure of years for these)
the bent shifters have a ball and socket on the bottom and are from pre95 w58's and older gen r154 from soarers/chaser/ mk1, mk2 and mk3 supra.
your 92 w58 is the socket kind with the bend in it, so likely you wont have to change the tunnel at all with a mk3 r154 as it also has the kind with a bend in it, but you may want to do the shorter length they are recommending as the shifter will do the rest.
maybe driftmotion is saying total with the shifter included?
another way is to just measure the w58 position, extend the r154 to match your old w58 position, and use your w58 shifter as it will work on the mk3 trans. if you want to use the r154 shifter adjust the difference if there is any I think they are very similar.
straight ones have a bolt on the bottom and work on remote shifter cage transmissions like 95+ w58's and the later model soarer/chaser r154's (want to say 95+ but not sure of years for these)
the bent shifters have a ball and socket on the bottom and are from pre95 w58's and older gen r154 from soarers/chaser/ mk1, mk2 and mk3 supra.
your 92 w58 is the socket kind with the bend in it, so likely you wont have to change the tunnel at all with a mk3 r154 as it also has the kind with a bend in it, but you may want to do the shorter length they are recommending as the shifter will do the rest.
maybe driftmotion is saying total with the shifter included?
another way is to just measure the w58 position, extend the r154 to match your old w58 position, and use your w58 shifter as it will work on the mk3 trans. if you want to use the r154 shifter adjust the difference if there is any I think they are very similar.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-27-14 at 12:27 PM.
01-27-14, 09:43 PM
#5
^^ Yep. Again, the truth.
The exactly length difference (measured at the very middle of the shifter openings) is 1.125" between the MKIII R154 shifter housing and the 91-93 Soarer shifter housing. Shern first noted this and I confirmed it to be the same when I picked up a Soarer extension housing and compared it to my MKIII housing.
I spoke to Aaron at Driftmotion about this and his opinion was that 1.125" to extend my MKIII housing and internal arm in order to use a bent shifter was not the best way to go. I trust his opinion and experience a lot but I still wished to stay as OEM as possible so I also wanted to have the shifter location and bend in place JUST like an early Soarer. To each his own.
Now that being said, you'll still need to reuse your SC 5-speed swan shifter or get a Suprasport V3 shifter (C's copy). I have both but I've been using the latter which stresses my OEM boot *slightly* but otherwise does NOT hit the console (although it is close) or prevent shifting into any gears. I no longer notice it. It's very, very slight.
I have found no disagreeable issues using the W58/Soarer-R154 location and swan shifter setup.
Hope this helps, OP.
The exactly length difference (measured at the very middle of the shifter openings) is 1.125" between the MKIII R154 shifter housing and the 91-93 Soarer shifter housing. Shern first noted this and I confirmed it to be the same when I picked up a Soarer extension housing and compared it to my MKIII housing.
I spoke to Aaron at Driftmotion about this and his opinion was that 1.125" to extend my MKIII housing and internal arm in order to use a bent shifter was not the best way to go. I trust his opinion and experience a lot but I still wished to stay as OEM as possible so I also wanted to have the shifter location and bend in place JUST like an early Soarer. To each his own.
Now that being said, you'll still need to reuse your SC 5-speed swan shifter or get a Suprasport V3 shifter (C's copy). I have both but I've been using the latter which stresses my OEM boot *slightly* but otherwise does NOT hit the console (although it is close) or prevent shifting into any gears. I no longer notice it. It's very, very slight.
I have found no disagreeable issues using the W58/Soarer-R154 location and swan shifter setup.
Hope this helps, OP.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 01-27-14 at 10:02 PM.
01-28-14, 11:11 AM
#6
thanks for confirming that Kahn, So I guess the longer number is for those who want to use a straight/straighter shifter, but then the shifter would have to be the ball/socket type maybe from another car or aftermarket as the straight shifter from the later years won't work on the mk3 trans.
So I guess what type of shifter you want will play alot into it. I could see the advantage of using a longer extension and a straight shorter shifter, but I can also see the advantage of using an oem setup. so many options.
So I guess what type of shifter you want will play alot into it. I could see the advantage of using a longer extension and a straight shorter shifter, but I can also see the advantage of using an oem setup. so many options.
02-03-14, 01:47 AM
#7
Longer means you can use a straight shifter but extending a housing farther still uses the same type of internal shifter arm in all cases with these early style transmissions. The Soarer extension housing and matching arm are the same basic thing as a non-extended MK3 housing. They're just 1.125" longer. An even longer custom length still does the same thing. In an mk3 Supra the housing and arm are a matched length and angle. With the Soarer extension the housing and arm are, again, a perfectly match length and angle. Doing it custom requires the same thing. Aaron at DM told me he uses a dedicated tig/vice setup of some kind to keep it extremely accurate.
Options are abound with this, yes. Personally I think the W58 shifter felt a bit long on the W58 and it would have on the R154. The V3 feels good enough that I am not bothered by the fact that it's not a straight type.
If you were beginning with an automatic car with the automatic opening it might make a lot more sense to go with a custom housing longer than the 91-93 Soarer and 92-94 SC/5 trans tunnel opening. 95-97 5-speeds used the Supra MKIV style tripod (straight) shifter opening which is further back-- incidentally closer to what many custom extension housings tend to emulate using these early R154 5-speed transmissions.
My thinking was to stay with the factory design for my car's production year. If I had a 1995-97 SC 5-speed I wouldn't have used the Soarer 5-speed extension (or measurement for it).
Another thing is that the 93-98 Supra 6-speed trans tunnel can be swapped over as well to have a factory shifter opening in line with later cars. I've never actually looked into the P/N of the MKIV NA 5-speed tunnel but it should be similar. Most people just cut their trans tunnels since it's not going to be visible once the console is back on anyway but it's worth mentioning.
Options are abound with this, yes. Personally I think the W58 shifter felt a bit long on the W58 and it would have on the R154. The V3 feels good enough that I am not bothered by the fact that it's not a straight type.
If you were beginning with an automatic car with the automatic opening it might make a lot more sense to go with a custom housing longer than the 91-93 Soarer and 92-94 SC/5 trans tunnel opening. 95-97 5-speeds used the Supra MKIV style tripod (straight) shifter opening which is further back-- incidentally closer to what many custom extension housings tend to emulate using these early R154 5-speed transmissions.
My thinking was to stay with the factory design for my car's production year. If I had a 1995-97 SC 5-speed I wouldn't have used the Soarer 5-speed extension (or measurement for it).
Another thing is that the 93-98 Supra 6-speed trans tunnel can be swapped over as well to have a factory shifter opening in line with later cars. I've never actually looked into the P/N of the MKIV NA 5-speed tunnel but it should be similar. Most people just cut their trans tunnels since it's not going to be visible once the console is back on anyway but it's worth mentioning.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-03-14 at 01:50 AM.
Trending Topics
02-03-14, 11:33 AM
#9
First, "Ideal" depends on your preference of staying as factory as possible or wishing to have a shifter with no swan bend.
92-94 SC300's use the early style W58's (non tripod) with a trans tunnel opening closer to the firewall. THAT is when a Soarer housing (or an extended MKIII housing that emulates one) makes the most sense because you can re-use your stock W58 shifter or use a shorter throw aftermarket shifter called a V3.
That extension housing and the internal arm are both still around but cannot be ordered unless you are literally at a parts counter IN Japan. Try anywhere else in the world and you won't be able to. There are a few on ebay right now but that's it. Getting the MKIII parts extended costs about the same if you can't find the factory Soarer parts.
95-97 SC300 5-speed cars used a "tripod" style W58 identical to the one in MKIV Supra NA's. These had a straight shifter. Here, the trans tunnel opening is farther away from the firewall (i.e.: closer to where the shifter lever you can see with your eyes actually sits in the console) and this makes the Soarer extension housing not line up unless a hole is cut in the trans tunnel since the later cars (SC300 and Soarer) revised their design to accommodate tripod manual transmissions.
The 95-97 5-speeds would more immediately bolt up in a more "factory" manner by using a true JDM Soarer R154 transmission which needs no extension housing.
ANY of the SC chassis from 92-00 can be made to work with either the early style R154 or later tripod style R154. Most of the info I detailed above pertains to what parts to get to avoid cutting the car's metal to do so.
Again, people swap manuals into automatic SC's all the time and at that point there is no factory opening on the trans tunnel that immediately works-- so you have to cut one out or buy an MKIV 6-speed trans tunnel (or the equivalent SC tunnel part if still available from Lexus but I haven't checked).
Last edited by KahnBB6; 02-03-14 at 11:39 AM.
02-03-14, 12:33 PM
#10
I think these guys need a visual. 2 types of w58's came in the SC and supra 95+ has a "shifter cage" or "remote shifter"
look at picture. the one in the back is a r154 with the JDM housing which resembles what an older w58 looks like (earlier generations w58 and r154 have this sort of setup with different length extensions).
The one in the front is a newer style w58 with the remote shifter setup (later year soarer/chaser r154's have this setup also).
If your car is a 95 like mine, your shifter hole is further back because the shifter literally comes straight up into the middle of the console like the trans in the front.
If you have a 92-94 then your shifter hole will be further up because with the bend the shifter comes through the floorboard AHEAD of the center of the console and only at the console height will the shifter be close to the center.
from this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...c400-swap.html
So if you have a 92-94 5spd SC, you will typically use mk3 trans w/ short extension and use the bent shifter which will come throught the tunnel fine. this emulates the way the early r154 soarers came with a short extension and bent shifter.
If you have a 95-97 5sp SC, you should look for a later model soarer/chaser trans that needs no extension because it emulates the later model w58's with the straight shifter. you could also use the mk3 trans like above and cut another hole further up to fit the bent shifter, or you could do a longer extension on a mk3 trans and use a custom straight shifter to avoid cutting the tunnel at all, or you could maybe even use an older tunnel.
If you have an auto, you will likely be making a cut anyways so you can choose what you like.
Again if you are asking for what length my extension needs to be, you have to consider the model of trans and how bent your shifter is that you are going to use otherwise you might as well just take a guess because using someone elses extension value without knowing that stuff will probably not work great.
look at picture. the one in the back is a r154 with the JDM housing which resembles what an older w58 looks like (earlier generations w58 and r154 have this sort of setup with different length extensions).
The one in the front is a newer style w58 with the remote shifter setup (later year soarer/chaser r154's have this setup also).
If your car is a 95 like mine, your shifter hole is further back because the shifter literally comes straight up into the middle of the console like the trans in the front.
If you have a 92-94 then your shifter hole will be further up because with the bend the shifter comes through the floorboard AHEAD of the center of the console and only at the console height will the shifter be close to the center.
from this thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...c400-swap.html
So if you have a 92-94 5spd SC, you will typically use mk3 trans w/ short extension and use the bent shifter which will come throught the tunnel fine. this emulates the way the early r154 soarers came with a short extension and bent shifter.
If you have a 95-97 5sp SC, you should look for a later model soarer/chaser trans that needs no extension because it emulates the later model w58's with the straight shifter. you could also use the mk3 trans like above and cut another hole further up to fit the bent shifter, or you could do a longer extension on a mk3 trans and use a custom straight shifter to avoid cutting the tunnel at all, or you could maybe even use an older tunnel.
If you have an auto, you will likely be making a cut anyways so you can choose what you like.
Again if you are asking for what length my extension needs to be, you have to consider the model of trans and how bent your shifter is that you are going to use otherwise you might as well just take a guess because using someone elses extension value without knowing that stuff will probably not work great.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 02-03-14 at 12:40 PM.
02-05-14, 08:16 AM
#13
Ali / Kahn - Much appreciate info
I have a fully built 154 from DM currently installed and I used a modded shifter housing with my oem '92 58 shift lever. I got the shift housing off someone local but I am unsure of the mod length which is why I want to get it right. I have another set of oem 154 2pcs needed to do the mod so I'm all set. I spoke to Aaron/DM about 2 wks ago pertaining to this and he had mentioned the 4.75 is the way to go. I guess his jig is specific set to that but I feel it's meant for a straight shift lever (which is fine by me). I even have the nylon bushings currently installed but I'm chasing a better shift feel this time around as it feels a bit difficult and takes away the 'shift feel'. I know the 154 requires a different shift pattern and a touch of muscle compared to my Supras.
So for shift levers, the choice seems to be the Suprasport V3 and the Beech version Aaron recommends
I have a fully built 154 from DM currently installed and I used a modded shifter housing with my oem '92 58 shift lever. I got the shift housing off someone local but I am unsure of the mod length which is why I want to get it right. I have another set of oem 154 2pcs needed to do the mod so I'm all set. I spoke to Aaron/DM about 2 wks ago pertaining to this and he had mentioned the 4.75 is the way to go. I guess his jig is specific set to that but I feel it's meant for a straight shift lever (which is fine by me). I even have the nylon bushings currently installed but I'm chasing a better shift feel this time around as it feels a bit difficult and takes away the 'shift feel'. I know the 154 requires a different shift pattern and a touch of muscle compared to my Supras.
So for shift levers, the choice seems to be the Suprasport V3 and the Beech version Aaron recommends
02-05-14, 09:45 AM
#15
the beech and the supra sport are still angled some so yeah they are not straight shifters, but are shorter shifters than the stock R154 one.
If you are using your OEM w58 shifter, then just measure from the front of your bellhousing to the shifter, and make sure its the same on your R154, maybe even a little longer for using a short shifter in the future.
I don't know the exact lengths of the extensions at all for the various years, but I don't see why that wouldn't work since you already have a correct length w58 sitting there. I wouldn't just guess at the extension of go off online, I would measure the actual car using the online stuff as a rough guide. 3 something inches plus the shifter sounds reasonable if you are looking for 4" total extension as none of those shifters are straight.
at the end of the day its whatever angle you feel fine with, and I am not sure I have seen a perfectly straight shifter ever for those type of shifters, only on the remote style and you cannot use a remote style shifter on the older kind as the bottom half is very different. The older style has a socket thing and the newer remote style has a bolt that goes through the bottom of it.
If you are using your OEM w58 shifter, then just measure from the front of your bellhousing to the shifter, and make sure its the same on your R154, maybe even a little longer for using a short shifter in the future.
I don't know the exact lengths of the extensions at all for the various years, but I don't see why that wouldn't work since you already have a correct length w58 sitting there. I wouldn't just guess at the extension of go off online, I would measure the actual car using the online stuff as a rough guide. 3 something inches plus the shifter sounds reasonable if you are looking for 4" total extension as none of those shifters are straight.
at the end of the day its whatever angle you feel fine with, and I am not sure I have seen a perfectly straight shifter ever for those type of shifters, only on the remote style and you cannot use a remote style shifter on the older kind as the bottom half is very different. The older style has a socket thing and the newer remote style has a bolt that goes through the bottom of it.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 02-05-14 at 09:52 AM.