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Power Steering Fluid versus ATF
05-20-12, 07:27 AM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Power Steering Fluid versus ATF
I wanted to flush my power steering fluid in my 2006 Lexus GX470 with ~90K miles on it, so I went to the Lexus/Toyota parts counter and told them what I was doing, and asked how much fluid I needed to buy. They gave me three bottles of Accel Power Steering fluid (12 oz each), and told me I'd probably only need two. I bought three.
I flushed the system (the old fluid was horribly black and thick), and all seems fine.
BUT, now I see that there are a great number of discussions on the Internet about NEVER using PSF in a system that calls for ATF (which I've come to realize that my Lexus does!).
Is using PSF in my Lexus GX a big deal? And, if so, why in the world would Lexus/Toyota sell me the wrong stuff???
Also, should I reflush with something else?
I flushed the system (the old fluid was horribly black and thick), and all seems fine.
BUT, now I see that there are a great number of discussions on the Internet about NEVER using PSF in a system that calls for ATF (which I've come to realize that my Lexus does!).
Is using PSF in my Lexus GX a big deal? And, if so, why in the world would Lexus/Toyota sell me the wrong stuff???
Also, should I reflush with something else?
05-20-12, 08:12 AM
#2
ATF typically has a swelling agent to keep seals in your transmission healthy. I wonder whether the power steering gearbox, not the pump, has a need for this. I am not certain on the differences in viscosity, lubrication, nor the moisture absorption rate of either, but I imagine the steering gearbox is more expensive to replace than the actually power steering pump. This might explain why I have read so much about pump and line leakage on the SCs. Of course, this may have been covered elsewhere on the forum too.
I have seen this discussion go back and forth for several years and have yet to see a definitive or concrete answer to which should be used. Given that the owner's manual asks for ATF to be used leads me to believe that Toyota/Lexus knows the answer. Or, it could be something as simple as that it is cheaper overall given the amount needed (but I doubt it).
I have seen this discussion go back and forth for several years and have yet to see a definitive or concrete answer to which should be used. Given that the owner's manual asks for ATF to be used leads me to believe that Toyota/Lexus knows the answer. Or, it could be something as simple as that it is cheaper overall given the amount needed (but I doubt it).
05-20-12, 10:56 AM
#3
I am shocked they even had and gave you power steering fluid. Its not going to effect anything in the short run, but it is not the fluid the system was engineered around. Gamblerz is right there is no definitive answer on this one and if atf is better for seals I could understand why every toyota PS cap has atf written on it instead of power steering fluid. I see people using both, but its really not cheaper as you said earlier, its about the same. I always lean towards trusting the engineers, over what people behind a parts counter may tell you. most likely it will be fine, but not toyota optimal.
Especially concerning such a nice GX, I would take back the power steering cap where it says to use atf and demand they give you 3 bottles of atf for wasting your time.
Especially concerning such a nice GX, I would take back the power steering cap where it says to use atf and demand they give you 3 bottles of atf for wasting your time.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 05-20-12 at 11:02 AM.
05-21-12, 01:00 PM
#7
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Why I Bought at the Dealership
Because I wanted to make sure that I got the correct fluid for my GX, and %^$* if they didn't give me the wrong stuff! As a rule, I buy OEM parts for my cars.
On the other hand, fluids are usually a different matter, as I use Mobil1 and Amsoil for various applications. For this purchase, I really did want to keep it simple and buy the OEM power steering fluid (a.k.a. ATF). I must admit I was startled when the PS fluid wasn't even Toyota/Lexus labled (Accel brand), but I didn't think much about it until after I did the flush.
Now, I'm considering going back to the dealership and getting a quart or two of their synthetic ATF fluid [and get credit for the PS fluid they sold me in error - LOL].
I bet that they use PS fluid in the service department all day long. It probably doesn't matter, but I like following directions when the cost of doing so is inexpensive, and the risk of not following directions is expensive (seals, etc.).
On the other hand, fluids are usually a different matter, as I use Mobil1 and Amsoil for various applications. For this purchase, I really did want to keep it simple and buy the OEM power steering fluid (a.k.a. ATF). I must admit I was startled when the PS fluid wasn't even Toyota/Lexus labled (Accel brand), but I didn't think much about it until after I did the flush.
Now, I'm considering going back to the dealership and getting a quart or two of their synthetic ATF fluid [and get credit for the PS fluid they sold me in error - LOL].
I bet that they use PS fluid in the service department all day long. It probably doesn't matter, but I like following directions when the cost of doing so is inexpensive, and the risk of not following directions is expensive (seals, etc.).
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05-21-12, 01:15 PM
#8
Lol, this is funny... I was in the same exact boat when I changed my PS pump, rack & pinion and PS line all at the same time... I called up Lexus, cause I wanted to use as much OEM parts as possible on my SC, and they told me just use any brand with the specified fluid in the manual. And I was like, I wanna buy it from you guys, and the mechanic said(they transferred me to a mechanic cause the parts dept. didn't exactly know the answer to my question) that they only use Pennzoil. So I said **** it, and bought Valvoline ATF.
05-21-12, 02:11 PM
#9
One of the master toyota techs on supraforums (Ishii) got into this discussion a while back
heres what he said
at the end of the day you can use either. They are both hydraulic fluids, just with different additives
heres what he said
Yes, In the owners manual it says to use Dexeron II fluid.
But in my personal experience I've found it very difficult to use DexeronII, it foams up sooo easily and takes forever to quiet down.
As far as it stopping leaks that does have a little to do with the ATF. If your fluid is dirty the dirt sticks to the seals (o-rings Etc..)
and the pressure moves the seals around a bit letting the dirt between the surfaces thus creating a leak. Flushing the fluid removes the debris. ATF helps more than P/S fluid because ATF is high in detergent which is also why it foams up so easily. I reccomend to just flush the P/S system out with P/S fluid, less hasle. BTW from the factory the system has P/S fluid in it not ATF.
Ishii
But in my personal experience I've found it very difficult to use DexeronII, it foams up sooo easily and takes forever to quiet down.
As far as it stopping leaks that does have a little to do with the ATF. If your fluid is dirty the dirt sticks to the seals (o-rings Etc..)
and the pressure moves the seals around a bit letting the dirt between the surfaces thus creating a leak. Flushing the fluid removes the debris. ATF helps more than P/S fluid because ATF is high in detergent which is also why it foams up so easily. I reccomend to just flush the P/S system out with P/S fluid, less hasle. BTW from the factory the system has P/S fluid in it not ATF.
Ishii
05-21-12, 03:14 PM
#10
interesting, I normally just use the first synthetic ATF I come across.
When Toyota changes the cap to say P/S fluid, thats when I will be buying PS fluid.
the only actual fluid I go to the dealer for is the Toyota red coolant concentrate stuff, not the pink premix stuff.
When Toyota changes the cap to say P/S fluid, thats when I will be buying PS fluid.
the only actual fluid I go to the dealer for is the Toyota red coolant concentrate stuff, not the pink premix stuff.
05-21-12, 10:49 PM
#11
I just flushed and filled my steering & fan reservoirs with ATF. My research concluded that they were the same product but the steering fluid didn't have to meet any of the requirements that ATF does. It's basically the same fluid other than that.
05-22-12, 05:24 AM
#12
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Re-flush Power Steering
In the end, I probably would leave it PS fluid in my system, but the original fluid had gotten so bad that my new fluid is a dark amber color (it started out clear 3 days ago). So, I am going to reflush the system, but this time I'll use Mobil1 ATF fluid (if I can find it), or Amsoil ATF.
I have never flush a power steering system before, but my pump started whining, which caused me to check the fluid. I was shocked at the color and viscosity. I plan on adding power steering service to my maintenance program - probably drain the reservoir and refill with fresh fluid every 10K-15K miles.
My biggest question is why did the fluid do this. I've had many autos with high mileage, and never serviced the power steering system before. My theory is that maybe the GX, with the skid plate covering the bottom of the engine, captures more heat and transfers it on the power steering system/fluid than my other autos.
An interesting side bar... I serviced the transmission at 63K miles, and the mechanic was surprised that the fluid was as dark at it was.
I have never flush a power steering system before, but my pump started whining, which caused me to check the fluid. I was shocked at the color and viscosity. I plan on adding power steering service to my maintenance program - probably drain the reservoir and refill with fresh fluid every 10K-15K miles.
My biggest question is why did the fluid do this. I've had many autos with high mileage, and never serviced the power steering system before. My theory is that maybe the GX, with the skid plate covering the bottom of the engine, captures more heat and transfers it on the power steering system/fluid than my other autos.
An interesting side bar... I serviced the transmission at 63K miles, and the mechanic was surprised that the fluid was as dark at it was.
06-12-14, 04:55 PM
#14
Has anyone here actually ran PSF after a full flush???
It was pretty terrible.
I ran power steering fluid after the 1JZ swap for about 6 month. The pump started to squeak and drag down my idle at low speeds.
Drained it and went with some Ford ATF I had laying around and it's quiet again. Seriously. Went from contemplating replacement pump to asymptomatic overnight. I don't think this should even be a discussion. Try to run it after a flush and see if you have any better luck than I did. Maybe if you top it off accidentally it's fine but my 1JZ pump DID NOT like PSF.
It was pretty terrible.
I ran power steering fluid after the 1JZ swap for about 6 month. The pump started to squeak and drag down my idle at low speeds.
Drained it and went with some Ford ATF I had laying around and it's quiet again. Seriously. Went from contemplating replacement pump to asymptomatic overnight. I don't think this should even be a discussion. Try to run it after a flush and see if you have any better luck than I did. Maybe if you top it off accidentally it's fine but my 1JZ pump DID NOT like PSF.
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