What fuel management??
04-16-12, 09:48 AM
#1
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What fuel management??
Ok so i've been searching and I am stumped on what piggy back system to run. Or is this just a complete waste of time? I'm not trying to start a piggyback vs stand alone argument, I'm just trying to find the most cost effective way to manage my fuel. I plan on trying to hit the 400-450 whp mark for now till i learn more about the systems to expand into the 600+ later down the road( couple years).so ?'s are
1. What are the better know piggy backs out there anf why are they better?
2. what are the hp limits of a piggy back?
3. does the ls400 maf mod help the power limits?
4. what do these piggy back systems cost and what do you need to run them properly.( assuming the need to be tuned just like any stand alone)
5.Have many people used the mega squirt systems? if so how was the succuess or not? ( asking due to the cost effectiveness) I have seen several people "start" trying to use them but no real fallow ups or diagrams.
Thanks in advance for any info. I know that this has prob. been gone over just having trouble finding my exact answers with the most current products available. BTW I'm very excited to jump into the sc performance think its a wonderful combo of power\class that most people never see coming
1. What are the better know piggy backs out there anf why are they better?
2. what are the hp limits of a piggy back?
3. does the ls400 maf mod help the power limits?
4. what do these piggy back systems cost and what do you need to run them properly.( assuming the need to be tuned just like any stand alone)
5.Have many people used the mega squirt systems? if so how was the succuess or not? ( asking due to the cost effectiveness) I have seen several people "start" trying to use them but no real fallow ups or diagrams.
Thanks in advance for any info. I know that this has prob. been gone over just having trouble finding my exact answers with the most current products available. BTW I'm very excited to jump into the sc performance think its a wonderful combo of power\class that most people never see coming
04-17-12, 07:36 AM
#3
Screw the SAFC, that thing is garbage. It only "Tricks" your ecu to fuel it the way you want.
Problem is, when you take too much fuel out of the AFC, the ECU thinks their is less air, and adds timing to a dangerous level.
The Proper way to fuel a newer boosted car is:
-Crazy Standalone $$$$$
-AEM FIC or MAP ECU (Both are around $300-400)
The AEM and MAP ECU allow you to scale fuel injectors, have lots of fuel adjustment, and the most important thing Timing control!
They also have a MAP sensor built in to properly meter the air that is coming in.
Does that answer your question?
Problem is, when you take too much fuel out of the AFC, the ECU thinks their is less air, and adds timing to a dangerous level.
The Proper way to fuel a newer boosted car is:
-Crazy Standalone $$$$$
-AEM FIC or MAP ECU (Both are around $300-400)
The AEM and MAP ECU allow you to scale fuel injectors, have lots of fuel adjustment, and the most important thing Timing control!
They also have a MAP sensor built in to properly meter the air that is coming in.
Does that answer your question?
04-17-12, 08:42 AM
#5
the only way you can really "cheap out" on EMS related stuff is by knowing exactly what you're doing. said situation would warrant running a megasquirt3X. it is very capable, and it only costs a little more than an the AEM FIC / MAP ecu / emanage piggybacks.
if you can't handle a megasquirt, get a piggyback, and pay someone to install it (help you install it?) and tune it.
if you can't handle a megasquirt, get a piggyback, and pay someone to install it (help you install it?) and tune it.
04-17-12, 10:47 AM
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So it seems that everyone is pro AEM FIC or MAP ECU and can be had for 3-400..... deff. answers that ? as far as tuning is it " rocket science" I mean no to minimize it but i have a decent understanding of how the systems work however i know that to dial it in perfect that requires a dyno and knowledge. Is it something that can be learned with a little practice and reading/education or just leave it to the pros. I'm a diy'er and would like to solve my own problems if they arise if possible( not affraid to learn just haven't done it before).I love the idea of going MS and really learning my vehicle if possible with my resources. What can one expect to pay for tuning services?
04-17-12, 11:04 AM
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imo i would just cough up the extra cash to get a standalone. i rather be sure that myengine management will handle my mods. the extra cost of full standalone compared to a piggy back is anywhere from 600-1500 depending on the extra sensors you should buy for the car. i would rather pay the extra then hassle with the possibility of a blown motor which could cost any where from 400-4000 depending on what is done to it
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04-17-12, 11:47 AM
#8
That is a copy paste answer, and in no way helps the OP.
I'm tired of this "Either go AEM V2 or SAFC". Where is the grey area?
What if the guy can't afford $1400 then a $400 dollar session to get it to run?
You can blow your engine a million different ways.
The good thing about the AEM FIC is that it is a "piggy-back", but it uses voltage clamping on the timing which is the most important thing about tuning safely.
Yes you can play with AFR all day, but at the ragged edge that one more degree of timing is what will kill the engine.
The AEM takes stock input signals, makes the calculation over your OEM ECU map, then gives the ECU a signal it doesn't freak out over.
SAFC's just trick the ECU signal, causing compound signal manipulation. The OEM ECU doesn't like it and will freak out and throw a CEL.
Join AEM power for more info.
I'm tired of this "Either go AEM V2 or SAFC". Where is the grey area?
What if the guy can't afford $1400 then a $400 dollar session to get it to run?
You can blow your engine a million different ways.
The good thing about the AEM FIC is that it is a "piggy-back", but it uses voltage clamping on the timing which is the most important thing about tuning safely.
Yes you can play with AFR all day, but at the ragged edge that one more degree of timing is what will kill the engine.
The AEM takes stock input signals, makes the calculation over your OEM ECU map, then gives the ECU a signal it doesn't freak out over.
SAFC's just trick the ECU signal, causing compound signal manipulation. The OEM ECU doesn't like it and will freak out and throw a CEL.
Join AEM power for more info.
04-17-12, 12:07 PM
#9
SAFC and VPC managed many motors before the Standalone explosion. They still hold there own today. A close friend ran Field's Hyper R SFC and VPC back in the mid 2000's. His car put down 800+ whp and 660+ wtq, the car went finished the quarter in 10.15 @ 146.
Piggy-back will be more than enough for OP's build.
Piggy-back will be more than enough for OP's build.
04-17-12, 12:49 PM
#11
SAFC and VPC managed many motors before the Standalone explosion. They still hold there own today. A close friend ran Field's Hyper R SFC and VPC back in the mid 2000's. His car put down 800+ whp and 660+ wtq, the car went finished the quarter in 10.15 @ 146.
Piggy-back will be more than enough for OP's build.
Piggy-back will be more than enough for OP's build.
sounds like your friend really new what he was doing
04-17-12, 12:52 PM
#12
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That is a copy paste answer, and in no way helps the OP.
I'm tired of this "Either go AEM V2 or SAFC". Where is the grey area?
What if the guy can't afford $1400 then a $400 dollar session to get it to run?
You can blow your engine a million different ways.
The good thing about the AEM FIC is that it is a "piggy-back", but it uses voltage clamping on the timing which is the most important thing about tuning safely.
Yes you can play with AFR all day, but at the ragged edge that one more degree of timing is what will kill the engine.
The AEM takes stock input signals, makes the calculation over your OEM ECU map, then gives the ECU a signal it doesn't freak out over.
SAFC's just trick the ECU signal, causing compound signal manipulation. The OEM ECU doesn't like it and will freak out and throw a CEL.
Join AEM power for more info.
I'm tired of this "Either go AEM V2 or SAFC". Where is the grey area?
What if the guy can't afford $1400 then a $400 dollar session to get it to run?
You can blow your engine a million different ways.
The good thing about the AEM FIC is that it is a "piggy-back", but it uses voltage clamping on the timing which is the most important thing about tuning safely.
Yes you can play with AFR all day, but at the ragged edge that one more degree of timing is what will kill the engine.
The AEM takes stock input signals, makes the calculation over your OEM ECU map, then gives the ECU a signal it doesn't freak out over.
SAFC's just trick the ECU signal, causing compound signal manipulation. The OEM ECU doesn't like it and will freak out and throw a CEL.
Join AEM power for more info.
04-17-12, 02:15 PM
#14
Yeah, him and his business partner have learned quite a bit since the mid 90's before the modern Japanese imports became what we know of them today.
All of their cars were on piggy-back systems as they were more accessible at the time. They have since moved on to AEM V1/V2, PowerFC, Motec, etc... At the end of the day it's the tuner that makes the car run and perform, not the engine management.
With set goals in mind, piggy-back systems have their place as much as a full standalone system.
All of their cars were on piggy-back systems as they were more accessible at the time. They have since moved on to AEM V1/V2, PowerFC, Motec, etc... At the end of the day it's the tuner that makes the car run and perform, not the engine management.
With set goals in mind, piggy-back systems have their place as much as a full standalone system.
