Built NA block vs Built TT block
10-24-11, 10:27 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Built NA block vs Built TT block
Okay, my car has been having some issues lately aka water pump timing belt belt system leaky valve covers ect..and I've been pondering the idea of finding another GE block and building it the right way for boost..lower CR internals high quality equipment ect..would this be a good route to go instead of building a GTE engine? Sure it'd be cool to have a GTE swap but why do that when I can have an equally good GE engine for less cost? I mean GE's go for less than 500 bucks as opposed to GTE's which are 2k+. Just looking for some input.
10-25-11, 02:36 AM
#4
If you're having issues with general required maintenance stuff, honestly I'd do those. A serviced NA engine may not be going toward your ultimate goals of real horsepower but if you need a running car it would make a lot more sense to buy the parts wholesale shipped and take them to a mechanic you trust to get the major stuff taken care of. As soon as I bought my car I put on a new timing belt, tensioner, water pump, thermostat (all of those should be done together since they are all in the same area of the engine) and plugs-cap-and-rotor. It's not fast but it doesn't need service again for a very long time, allowing me to take my time with other areas of the car I wanted to modify before anything engine related.
Do those, then find a 2JZ-GE block with good compression and start building that, assuming you have no emissions to bother with in Nebraska.
Do those, then find a 2JZ-GE block with good compression and start building that, assuming you have no emissions to bother with in Nebraska.
10-25-11, 03:22 AM
#5
Built GE block will be inferior to built GTE block unless a machine shop adds the Turbo Oil Feed and Squirters. Will you care about having a oil line run across the engine bay & missing squirters? Can't answer that.
It should be mentioned that out of that 2000 for a GTE engine a LARGE portion of the funds is in the wiring harness which is worth 300-600 and head which is worth 500-800 with valve covers. Those two parts alone are worth more than half the cost. Add in the other parts you can sell power steering pump, alternator, starter, ecu and so on it really brings down the GTE block price.
It should be mentioned that out of that 2000 for a GTE engine a LARGE portion of the funds is in the wiring harness which is worth 300-600 and head which is worth 500-800 with valve covers. Those two parts alone are worth more than half the cost. Add in the other parts you can sell power steering pump, alternator, starter, ecu and so on it really brings down the GTE block price.
10-25-11, 04:45 AM
#6
aside from the (imo pointless squirters ) and oil feed being on drivers side which if you are doing a block can be drilled on passenger side like gte as the port is there in the block , just needs to be drilled and tapped . they are essentially the same block.
do some reading on what squish and quench is as it relates to combustion and you will understand that using a gte block and or gte pistons with na head is the wrong approach. you will make your setup more prone to detonation then using a ge block/head . we had both sets cc'd and measured down here and found it to be very much true..
just a suggestion , build new block and depending on power goals reuse oem ge pistons or get cp or weisco 10:1 ge speced pistons and use oem tt hg to maintain proper squish and quench..
you will have a nice 9:4:1 ish compression which will make your motor more responsive and achieve your goals with less boost. I'm at around 9:5:1 compression running 600 rwhp @ only 19 psi on pump gas with zero knock.less boost =less heat and less wear and tear
do some reading on what squish and quench is as it relates to combustion and you will understand that using a gte block and or gte pistons with na head is the wrong approach. you will make your setup more prone to detonation then using a ge block/head . we had both sets cc'd and measured down here and found it to be very much true..
just a suggestion , build new block and depending on power goals reuse oem ge pistons or get cp or weisco 10:1 ge speced pistons and use oem tt hg to maintain proper squish and quench..
you will have a nice 9:4:1 ish compression which will make your motor more responsive and achieve your goals with less boost. I'm at around 9:5:1 compression running 600 rwhp @ only 19 psi on pump gas with zero knock.less boost =less heat and less wear and tear
10-25-11, 06:06 AM
#7
gte & na-t
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I vote for the ge! gte block is overrated in my opinion it's been proven to make the same power as the gte block.
If you gonna build it just DO a ge block..
This just my opinion!
If you gonna build it just DO a ge block..
This just my opinion!
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10-25-11, 08:36 AM
#9
Built GE block will be inferior to built GTE block unless a machine shop adds the Turbo Oil Feed and Squirters. Will you care about having a oil line run across the engine bay & missing squirters? Can't answer that.
It should be mentioned that out of that 2000 for a GTE engine a LARGE portion of the funds is in the wiring harness which is worth 300-600 and head which is worth 500-800 with valve covers. Those two parts alone are worth more than half the cost. Add in the other parts you can sell power steering pump, alternator, starter, ecu and so on it really brings down the GTE block price.
It should be mentioned that out of that 2000 for a GTE engine a LARGE portion of the funds is in the wiring harness which is worth 300-600 and head which is worth 500-800 with valve covers. Those two parts alone are worth more than half the cost. Add in the other parts you can sell power steering pump, alternator, starter, ecu and so on it really brings down the GTE block price.
10-25-11, 08:40 AM
#10
Agreed!!! Go to supraforums.com and look at the guys running higher numbers, and look at how many of them removed the oil squirters. The block castings themselves are identical IIRC. Find a GE short block for a couple bills, and have fun. No point in paying more for a block that has something your going to remove anyway.
10-25-11, 09:07 AM
#11
Ge block is actually much superior. oil squirters are not needed on forged pistons, you are just wasting oil pressure on the strongest part of the motor while the crank and head are left gasping for oil in high boost high rpm situations when it needs oiling the most. why do you think the GTE has to have a higher flowing oil pump, its not because it can rev higher, thats for sure.
There is no need to open up a GE block to lower the compression via gte pistons.
you are better off just using a gte heagasket or run ethanol or spray methanol.
you know you can run the line under the front of the motor next to the oil pan right? mine looks exactly like a GTE one does.
There is no need to open up a GE block to lower the compression via gte pistons.
you are better off just using a gte heagasket or run ethanol or spray methanol.
you know you can run the line under the front of the motor next to the oil pan right? mine looks exactly like a GTE one does.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 10-25-11 at 09:12 AM.
10-25-11, 10:45 AM
#12
Ge block is actually much superior. oil squirters are not needed on forged pistons, you are just wasting oil pressure on the strongest part of the motor while the crank and head are left gasping for oil in high boost high rpm situations when it needs oiling the most. why do you think the GTE has to have a higher flowing oil pump, its not because it can rev higher, thats for sure.
10-25-11, 10:50 AM
#13
You'd also be surprised how many (read: little) miles those high horsepower built blocks last. Anything that increases life is a positive in my book.
Your post defeats it's own argument. Given the GTE has a higher flowing oil pump the oil squirters demand is offset. Why do you think the GE has a lower flowing oil pump? if the GTE oil pump was used on the GE block pressure would in fact be excessive.
Your post defeats it's own argument. Given the GTE has a higher flowing oil pump the oil squirters demand is offset. Why do you think the GE has a lower flowing oil pump? if the GTE oil pump was used on the GE block pressure would in fact be excessive.
most of the high hp guys are in fact using ge blocks .. vic at f&h performance in tampa which is partnered with alpha my tuner runs exactly the ge built block scnerio for the last 2+ yrs running high 8's in the 1/4 and making just north of 1200 rwhp and over 1300 ish on spray
toyota designed these pesky things to help guard against premature engine failures being that back in 1993 with the gte motor 93 octane wasnt the norm so running lower octance on lower compression creates hotter egt therefore at stock power levels it worked pretty well , once you are doubling or tripling oem power that arguement goes out the window
not with aftermarket pistons.
10-25-11, 12:11 PM
#15
gte & na-t
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So what happened to all those CL and SF members that blew their gte block 1j or 2jzgte and now they are running na block (whitout) oil squirters.
And how come the oil squirters is not extending the life of their block.
This question is for all the guys that believe or think gte is better than ge why do we have all these 1.5jz block and why do we have all these blown up 2jzgte blocks?
go to supramania everyone with mk3 has a 1.5jz .. why is that? because the 1jzgte block blew up or because they want the 2jz tq and didn't want to spend $2200 on a new toyota block or maybe a used gte block for $1000?
How many times have you seen a complete 1jz block for sale?
People pull their ge's out for the gte swaps but they end up using the their old ge block because the oil squirters didn't help and now they are boosting na ge hard after 5-6 years.
again gte is overated . in my opinion the only difference is the pistons between the two because i don't care for the " oil squirters and oil feed port on the passenger side.
You built both motors around 800-900rwhp SuperRunner made 916rwhp on his na block with R154 couple yeras back if i remember correctly.
And how come the oil squirters is not extending the life of their block.
This question is for all the guys that believe or think gte is better than ge why do we have all these 1.5jz block and why do we have all these blown up 2jzgte blocks?
go to supramania everyone with mk3 has a 1.5jz .. why is that? because the 1jzgte block blew up or because they want the 2jz tq and didn't want to spend $2200 on a new toyota block or maybe a used gte block for $1000?
How many times have you seen a complete 1jz block for sale?
People pull their ge's out for the gte swaps but they end up using the their old ge block because the oil squirters didn't help and now they are boosting na ge hard after 5-6 years.
again gte is overated . in my opinion the only difference is the pistons between the two because i don't care for the " oil squirters and oil feed port on the passenger side.
You built both motors around 800-900rwhp SuperRunner made 916rwhp on his na block with R154 couple yeras back if i remember correctly.