JDM 2JZ-GTE A/F at boost levels greater than 14psi
06-18-14, 11:11 AM
#61
see what your AFR is, and if you are in the 10-11 AFR you have more room, so bump it up a psi or 2 at a time. if you get into mid 12's AFR then stop there and maybe back off a little bit. I have run 17 psi with the 440's and aristo ecu showing a solid 10.5 or so that is in colorado and I have aftermarket 440's (not sure if that makes a difference) but at your elevation my 17 psi is like your 15 psi, and your turbo might flow more per psi than mine. everyone's turbo is different though so maybe you can't run as much, the AFR is the only way to know.
remember the stock fuel pressure regulator is a 1:1 rising rate with boost so you are good for a little higher than you think as the fuel pressure increases with boost also, and the more fuel pressure the more the injectors put out but it will only work till a certain amount. 550's might be the better way to go in the future though but you should be able to boost more than 12 safely.
remember the stock fuel pressure regulator is a 1:1 rising rate with boost so you are good for a little higher than you think as the fuel pressure increases with boost also, and the more fuel pressure the more the injectors put out but it will only work till a certain amount. 550's might be the better way to go in the future though but you should be able to boost more than 12 safely.
From what I have been reading the Aristo ECU will start boost cut at levels above 1 Bar or 14.5 psi
06-18-14, 01:10 PM
#62
yeah around 14 psi is what you can get without a BCC, more if you are higher in elevation like in denver I hit it at 17 because over here our regular air is at -2psi which is why n/a cars are so slow over here. those afr's are already sort of where I would stop though. I think its just the S366 just flows that much more air, so I would be cautious if raising it much more but you should be able to get to just under boost cut at 13-14 psi 1 psi isn't a whole lot at those power levels and if you are still same kind of mid 12's AFR then its ok, but if it goes up like .5 point and you are in 13's AFR at WOT then I would undo it at that point.
either way a boost controller will stop boost creep if you even set it the same psi as your wastegate, so either way I always install at least a manual boost controller, you will notice a kick from just doing that alone.
either way a boost controller will stop boost creep if you even set it the same psi as your wastegate, so either way I always install at least a manual boost controller, you will notice a kick from just doing that alone.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 06-18-14 at 01:15 PM.
06-28-14, 12:46 PM
#64
missed this, I ordered a new motorola 2.5 bar. I haven't heard of it working and I tried it before with larger injectors only to figure out now that I must have fried my previous motorola map sensors because the new one I got actually starts the car and then it runs for a sec and stalls out, no CEL this time. I think its just too lean to keep running but its hard to say if it will work even with larger injectors cause the voltage seems quite a bit different. I have kept this one working though and when I do get some larger ones I am going to try it again. just not sure what size injector to get at this point I am thinking if 440's can't start it then 660's is probably a good spot to start. one can also just use a map ecu or a safc but I like the simplicity of this if it would just cooperate and start working.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 06-28-14 at 12:50 PM.
08-04-14, 01:59 PM
#65
Has anyone here experienced inconsistency with tuning? I've been reading about "limp mode" or a state the ecu sees and it dumps fuel as rich as it can at WOT and I'm curious if this is what I'm experiencing.
I'm having an odd issue where on some pulls the tune will be mid 10's or so. Then other pulls the A/F will be in the solid 9.78:1 rich. Or do I just need to lean out the fuel more than -15%? And the rich mixture is accurate?
What's weird is that the switch to the super rich condition seems to be right at the point my wastegate is opening as my data logs show the rich dip right when the wastegate duty cycle starts. You can feel the loss of power as well like somethings holding the car back (probably from being pig rich).
-15% is pulled from the airmap on my safc NEO from 4k and above lo switch is 30%, Hi switch is 70%, I'm running 550cc injectors on a JDM supra ecu, upgraded aeromotive 340lph pump, stock fuel lines, new oem filter, stock FPR.
Base timing is currently set a hair below 10 deg, appx 8 or so as suggested from Ali, since I'm theoretically advancing timing with the SAFC, should timing be lowered more?
The car hits 9psi or so off the wastegate, with 14% duty cycle it hits 12 psi. Could my open vented wastegate be triggering knock?
I'm having an odd issue where on some pulls the tune will be mid 10's or so. Then other pulls the A/F will be in the solid 9.78:1 rich. Or do I just need to lean out the fuel more than -15%? And the rich mixture is accurate?
What's weird is that the switch to the super rich condition seems to be right at the point my wastegate is opening as my data logs show the rich dip right when the wastegate duty cycle starts. You can feel the loss of power as well like somethings holding the car back (probably from being pig rich).
-15% is pulled from the airmap on my safc NEO from 4k and above lo switch is 30%, Hi switch is 70%, I'm running 550cc injectors on a JDM supra ecu, upgraded aeromotive 340lph pump, stock fuel lines, new oem filter, stock FPR.
Base timing is currently set a hair below 10 deg, appx 8 or so as suggested from Ali, since I'm theoretically advancing timing with the SAFC, should timing be lowered more?
The car hits 9psi or so off the wastegate, with 14% duty cycle it hits 12 psi. Could my open vented wastegate be triggering knock?
Last edited by HiPSI; 08-04-14 at 02:23 PM.
08-04-14, 02:50 PM
#66
Im running 14psi straight off of wastegate and stock Aristo ECU...with 440's, I am venting wastegate to atmosphere....I am not hitting boost cut either
I do not have a SAFC or Boost controller
Everything is set to stock specs for ECU....but I do have a GTE not sure if it makes a difference
I have zero problems with it.....under WOT my A/F is around 10.8-11.2
I do not have a SAFC or Boost controller
Everything is set to stock specs for ECU....but I do have a GTE not sure if it makes a difference
I have zero problems with it.....under WOT my A/F is around 10.8-11.2
08-04-14, 06:57 PM
#67
Im running 14psi straight off of wastegate and stock Aristo ECU...with 440's, I am venting wastegate to atmosphere....I am not hitting boost cut either
I do not have a SAFC or Boost controller
Everything is set to stock specs for ECU....but I do have a GTE not sure if it makes a difference
I have zero problems with it.....under WOT my A/F is around 10.8-11.2
I do not have a SAFC or Boost controller
Everything is set to stock specs for ECU....but I do have a GTE not sure if it makes a difference
I have zero problems with it.....under WOT my A/F is around 10.8-11.2
There must be a point in the fuel map that switches at 4k rpm because thats when it goes rich, which coincidentally was the point where my wastegate was opening
.
08-04-14, 07:25 PM
#68
Yeah I was going to say pull some more fuel and rety but sounds like you got there. you only have to get in the ballpark, but if you are on the rich edge then it wont adjust right. Maybe lean it out to 11 range. any small changes in the map signal will affect the afr and the boost controller depending on how its setup can leak off air/boost and mess with it a little but if set right it shouldn't affect how it pulls, its normal for a little bit of fluctuation.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 08-04-14 at 07:32 PM.
08-04-14, 07:43 PM
#69
So by adding a bigger MAP sensor when will boost cut start to kick in......I am going to put in 550's to make sure I have enough fuel because at 14psi....I got to be close to maxing out 440's..
Will I be able to run more boost with a different map sensor?
Will I be able to run more boost with a different map sensor?
08-05-14, 09:44 AM
#70
adding a bigger map sensor we are not even sure actually works but it would do the same thing an SAFC does, just the safc is adjustable whereas a bigger map is not at all adjustable (just have to hope it works which is a longshot).
lets explaing it like this. boost cut happens when the ecu sees 4.x volts (around 4.5 lets say I have no idea the exact voltage). IF you put in a bigger map sensor, it reduces the voltage, so more boost to hit the same 4.x volts mean you just raised your boost cut.
IF you pull fuel via the safc, it reduces the voltage according to the percentage you put in there, so it also takes more boost to hit 4.x volts then, and you have just raised your boost cut.
so if you do 550's and pull 20%-25% load on a safc like above, I imagine you would get at least a few more psi before fuel cut maybe more, and if you pull enough fuel you wont hit fuel cut but remember to be able to pull fuel on a safc you must isntall larger injectors like 550 or 660's.
This is nice if you only want a bit more boost and keep the boost cut as a safety feature.
There is also a way with a map ecu with larger injectors to program the map so that it wont hit fuel cut based on how much load you are pulling. these are all sort of tricks and the map ecu/safc way of imitating a BCC but injector size might have to be up there not just 550's.
most people just get a greddy BCC or make their own. then there is no worry about boost cut, but you have removed the safety net completely of boost cut so you must make sure your wasetgate/boost controller setup is solid and installed correctly (dont let your vacuum line get close to your exhaust or one day you will make a pull and overboost when that line melts), you don't want to overboost.
SECOND you must ensure that wherever you set your boost at your AFR's are healty, the ecu can no longer save you in an overboost scenario if you have disabled boost cut except though it can pull timing and add fuel based on knock which it always does, can buy you a few seconds to let off the gas in an emergency overboost situation.
lets explaing it like this. boost cut happens when the ecu sees 4.x volts (around 4.5 lets say I have no idea the exact voltage). IF you put in a bigger map sensor, it reduces the voltage, so more boost to hit the same 4.x volts mean you just raised your boost cut.
IF you pull fuel via the safc, it reduces the voltage according to the percentage you put in there, so it also takes more boost to hit 4.x volts then, and you have just raised your boost cut.
so if you do 550's and pull 20%-25% load on a safc like above, I imagine you would get at least a few more psi before fuel cut maybe more, and if you pull enough fuel you wont hit fuel cut but remember to be able to pull fuel on a safc you must isntall larger injectors like 550 or 660's.
This is nice if you only want a bit more boost and keep the boost cut as a safety feature.
There is also a way with a map ecu with larger injectors to program the map so that it wont hit fuel cut based on how much load you are pulling. these are all sort of tricks and the map ecu/safc way of imitating a BCC but injector size might have to be up there not just 550's.
most people just get a greddy BCC or make their own. then there is no worry about boost cut, but you have removed the safety net completely of boost cut so you must make sure your wasetgate/boost controller setup is solid and installed correctly (dont let your vacuum line get close to your exhaust or one day you will make a pull and overboost when that line melts), you don't want to overboost.
SECOND you must ensure that wherever you set your boost at your AFR's are healty, the ecu can no longer save you in an overboost scenario if you have disabled boost cut except though it can pull timing and add fuel based on knock which it always does, can buy you a few seconds to let off the gas in an emergency overboost situation.
08-05-14, 10:25 AM
#71
The overboost feature of the JDM ecu is great i just wish it could be adjustable, not just locked and essentially eliminating it. I am doing exactly what Ali described above which is adjusting for the larger injectors with the SAFC -20% or so at idle which is also pushing my boost cut limit higher. Im currently set at 16-17psi without any cut. I am glad the ecu will cut fuel in a bad scenario, my innovate wideband also is set to cut boost to spring pressure if 18psi is achieved which is an added safety net.
Now that I have worked out alot of the kinks i am truely impressed with how smooth the car runs on the JDM GTE ecu. It drives and runs like Toyota intended but should easily make 500whp.
Now that I have worked out alot of the kinks i am truely impressed with how smooth the car runs on the JDM GTE ecu. It drives and runs like Toyota intended but should easily make 500whp.
08-05-14, 02:14 PM
#73
4" is great but 3" will do most of the job. alot of the 4" start out as a 3" V-band at the turbo so I am not sure how much there really is to gain without a 4" turbine outlet.
Catmand3w the answer of how much psi you can run is just too hard to say for every different setup. The honest answer is whatever you can run without leaning up in the mids or up top, gotta log or watch the gauge.
So just Keep an eye on the AFR's and you can probably can do 400+ on the stock 440's.
people say 440cc only 400hp so it must be running out of fuel.. but my experience is that there is actually more fuel than that its just something people say for safety, in fact there is a thread over on SF about the exact topic people hitting more than 400hp on the 440's and wondering how. the ecu at those boost levels pretty much opens to inject for a same amount of time, but as boost pressure increases the fuel pressure increases via the Fuel pressure regulator, and so you can probably do a small percentage over what 440's would do at normal fuel pressure because of that increased amount of fuel pressure equal to the boost you run. You do hit a point where the increase in fuel pressure will not keep you in the rich zone, then its time for larger injectors if you want more boost.
With the stock ecu's its always a good idea to go up in increments, as each injector size up affects the tune a slight bit. so I say start out with 440's for simplicity, or even 550's if you don't mind installing a safc or map ecu right away, and from either of those then go up 100cc at a time.
Catmand3w the answer of how much psi you can run is just too hard to say for every different setup. The honest answer is whatever you can run without leaning up in the mids or up top, gotta log or watch the gauge.
So just Keep an eye on the AFR's and you can probably can do 400+ on the stock 440's.
people say 440cc only 400hp so it must be running out of fuel.. but my experience is that there is actually more fuel than that its just something people say for safety, in fact there is a thread over on SF about the exact topic people hitting more than 400hp on the 440's and wondering how. the ecu at those boost levels pretty much opens to inject for a same amount of time, but as boost pressure increases the fuel pressure increases via the Fuel pressure regulator, and so you can probably do a small percentage over what 440's would do at normal fuel pressure because of that increased amount of fuel pressure equal to the boost you run. You do hit a point where the increase in fuel pressure will not keep you in the rich zone, then its time for larger injectors if you want more boost.
With the stock ecu's its always a good idea to go up in increments, as each injector size up affects the tune a slight bit. so I say start out with 440's for simplicity, or even 550's if you don't mind installing a safc or map ecu right away, and from either of those then go up 100cc at a time.
02-02-15, 01:03 PM
#75
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Bump....Hey Ali did you ever get the 2.5 map to work with the 550cc? Right now I'm am running sard 540cc on a mines ecu, it works but the afr are in the low 10.0 as soon as boost hits. I would like to try the 2.5 map before I go with a mapecu and tune. Thanks