Ashtrays NA-T problem/help thread
03-12-10, 08:35 AM
#1
Ashtrays NA-T problem/help thread
Just went NA-T. All my specs are in the sig. Here is my current situation.
The car was running fine, just a bit of misfire and oil leak. I took it to get rotor and cap, plugs, and oil leak all taken care of. I get it back and it idles fine with adjustments to the safcII...but theres tons of smoke from the exhaust along with misfire happening in all cylinders at random moments(misfire stays in either 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. There is a minor exhaust leak from the turbo to the downpipe(could this cause the smoke?) I personally doubt it. Any ideas? The mechanic said it could be a valve cover..personally idk. Any ideas?
P.S. We reset the ecu, and the idle afc settings had to be dropped just a bit to get to optimum afr(was rich as hell). Will the entire rpm range need to be adjusted accordingly? Im on OBD2 just so you know. If anybody could come to Laredo TX. to help me out, Id appreciate it. No body here knows anything about turbo cars.
All input is greatly appreciated guys, I really need the car back and its killing me leaving it at the shop every day.
Ashtray-
edit: I wish I was a millionaire.
The car was running fine, just a bit of misfire and oil leak. I took it to get rotor and cap, plugs, and oil leak all taken care of. I get it back and it idles fine with adjustments to the safcII...but theres tons of smoke from the exhaust along with misfire happening in all cylinders at random moments(misfire stays in either 1 and 2 or 5 and 6. There is a minor exhaust leak from the turbo to the downpipe(could this cause the smoke?) I personally doubt it. Any ideas? The mechanic said it could be a valve cover..personally idk. Any ideas?
P.S. We reset the ecu, and the idle afc settings had to be dropped just a bit to get to optimum afr(was rich as hell). Will the entire rpm range need to be adjusted accordingly? Im on OBD2 just so you know. If anybody could come to Laredo TX. to help me out, Id appreciate it. No body here knows anything about turbo cars.
All input is greatly appreciated guys, I really need the car back and its killing me leaving it at the shop every day.
Ashtray-
edit: I wish I was a millionaire.
Last edited by ashtray; 03-12-10 at 08:46 AM.
03-12-10, 08:53 AM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
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what color is the smoke? grey or white? who tuned your car? NA-T on OBD2 requires a nice tune for reliability.
exhaust leak should not cause the smoke. it should just cause low boost pressure and decrease in hp.
you might just need a new value cover gasket that can cause the misfire/smoke.
do you have your stock MAF still on attached somewhere?
exhaust leak should not cause the smoke. it should just cause low boost pressure and decrease in hp.
you might just need a new value cover gasket that can cause the misfire/smoke.
do you have your stock MAF still on attached somewhere?
03-12-10, 09:06 AM
#3
what color is the smoke? grey or white? who tuned your car? NA-T on OBD2 requires a nice tune for reliability.
exhaust leak should not cause the smoke. it should just cause low boost pressure and decrease in hp.
you might just need a new value cover gasket that can cause the misfire/smoke.
do you have your stock MAF still on attached somewhere?
exhaust leak should not cause the smoke. it should just cause low boost pressure and decrease in hp.
you might just need a new value cover gasket that can cause the misfire/smoke.
do you have your stock MAF still on attached somewhere?
Exhaust leak is on the downpipe.
I might need a new valve cover?? pricey??
I have the stock MAF, yes. Its after the blow off valve.
03-12-10, 09:51 AM
#4
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Smoke:
Grey getting close to black its being caused by your car running RICH.
White your car is burning coolant.
Blueish its oil burning.
difference in problems and solutions based on the smoke your getting.
My best guess is the misfiring and grey/black causing your car to run rich may be just your valve cover gasket, not the whole valve cover itself. the gasket is very cheap under 30bucks but labor is a pain in the butt.
A bad gasket will cause your car to run rich and misfire and poor mpg.
I hope everything on your install went fine and this is the problem. Good luck
1) Get the gasket looked at and get a tune from a rep shop.
2) Does your SAFC-2 defeat CELs? your ECU could be going krazy from seeing the boost (extra air) and trying to over compensate with more gas (rich)
I had a 97 sc300 obd2 also wanted to go NA-T.. but i found so many problems working with it i just waited for my latest 95 sc300 obd1 gte and sold the 97.
Grey getting close to black its being caused by your car running RICH.
White your car is burning coolant.
Blueish its oil burning.
difference in problems and solutions based on the smoke your getting.
My best guess is the misfiring and grey/black causing your car to run rich may be just your valve cover gasket, not the whole valve cover itself. the gasket is very cheap under 30bucks but labor is a pain in the butt.
A bad gasket will cause your car to run rich and misfire and poor mpg.
I hope everything on your install went fine and this is the problem. Good luck
1) Get the gasket looked at and get a tune from a rep shop.
2) Does your SAFC-2 defeat CELs? your ECU could be going krazy from seeing the boost (extra air) and trying to over compensate with more gas (rich)
I had a 97 sc300 obd2 also wanted to go NA-T.. but i found so many problems working with it i just waited for my latest 95 sc300 obd1 gte and sold the 97.
Last edited by eliteskill; 03-12-10 at 09:58 AM.
03-12-10, 10:02 AM
#5
you have stock fuel right?? the low settings on your safc should be set to 0 for all rpm ranges even if it is running really rich at first. changing these settings is gauranteed to make your car run terribly (unless your doing it to compensate for larger injectors and you would enter the same percent for every rpm range).
its the stock ecus job to do everything in vacuum for you, you only want the safc to come in during boost. if you start pulling fuel with the safc at idle before the stock ecu gets a chance to learn its buisness, it will think that level of fuel is already correct, which means it thinks whatever percent rich it was running is correct all across the board, and your timing will be off by the difference in loads you have created.
Please post your safc settings or pm them and I can help you out.
with stock ecu and fuel, you should be able to drive around with all your safc settings at 0 as long as you dont go into boost. if your having to touch the low settings something is definately wrong. you can make a car run decent on an safc in like 10 minutes.
its the stock ecus job to do everything in vacuum for you, you only want the safc to come in during boost. if you start pulling fuel with the safc at idle before the stock ecu gets a chance to learn its buisness, it will think that level of fuel is already correct, which means it thinks whatever percent rich it was running is correct all across the board, and your timing will be off by the difference in loads you have created.
Please post your safc settings or pm them and I can help you out.
with stock ecu and fuel, you should be able to drive around with all your safc settings at 0 as long as you dont go into boost. if your having to touch the low settings something is definately wrong. you can make a car run decent on an safc in like 10 minutes.
03-12-10, 11:28 AM
#7
RPM ; Low Percentage / High Percentage Fuel settings on SAFCII
1000 ; +7% / +5%
1600 ; +7% / +15%
2200 ; +26% / +24%
2800 ; +26% / +30%
3400 ; +26% / +35%
4000 ; +25% / +35%
4600 ; +25% / +35%
5200 ; +25% / +35%
5800 ; +25% / +35%
6400 ; +25% / +35%
7000 ; +25% / +35%
7600 ; +/- 0% / +/- 0%
TH-Point
Lo=94% Hi=95%
Sensor type=Hotwire-IN/12 OUT/12
Cal. IN/1 OUT/1
Car Select- 6 Cyl. Thr. position *arrow points top right*
SMOKE COLOR: WHITE
Thats the best I could do for specs guys. Help me out.
Edit: Is it possible to switch from OBDII to OBDI??
1000 ; +7% / +5%
1600 ; +7% / +15%
2200 ; +26% / +24%
2800 ; +26% / +30%
3400 ; +26% / +35%
4000 ; +25% / +35%
4600 ; +25% / +35%
5200 ; +25% / +35%
5800 ; +25% / +35%
6400 ; +25% / +35%
7000 ; +25% / +35%
7600 ; +/- 0% / +/- 0%
TH-Point
Lo=94% Hi=95%
Sensor type=Hotwire-IN/12 OUT/12
Cal. IN/1 OUT/1
Car Select- 6 Cyl. Thr. position *arrow points top right*
SMOKE COLOR: WHITE
Thats the best I could do for specs guys. Help me out.
Edit: Is it possible to switch from OBDII to OBDI??
Last edited by ashtray; 03-12-10 at 11:34 AM.
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03-12-10, 11:43 AM
#8
I cant comprehend whats going on with your car unless there is something loose/disconnected that your not seeing, or they F'ed up when doing your plugs. Your car was doing excellent other than the misfire when it here, held the tune, held boost with no leaks, or creep. Engine temps were perfectly on point.
And for the safc settings, we had to ad fuel to the low settings to keep it from going lean. The stock ecu interferes with the settings so bad on odb2 it was literally a headache trying to get it run/idle properly at any rpm once it had positive pressure introduced. you can try setting the low back to +/- 0, but then your going to have a whole different set of issues.
White smoke is generally a sign of a headgasket, but you told me already that the hg is fine..well you have smoke that is white in color, with a misfire in random cylinders and you told me that the car was running/idling very lean, this is leading me to believe more than your HG took a dump somewhere along the line.
The DP shouldnt be loose, the bolts tightened up very nicely and very smooth with no slips or cross threading. The oil leak that was coming from the return line, I tightened up, and if its loose again, simply remove the bolts from the exducer housing, pull the assembly apart and re-tighten it.
1 of 2 things is going on here. Either 1, there is something not connected/sealed properly (ie-HG, valve cover gasket, vacuum lines, etc.) and your just not seeing it, or diagnosing it properly. OR 2, who ever did your plugs messed with crap they werent supposed to mess with, and didnt connect something properly, and failed to tell you about it.
And for the safc settings, we had to ad fuel to the low settings to keep it from going lean. The stock ecu interferes with the settings so bad on odb2 it was literally a headache trying to get it run/idle properly at any rpm once it had positive pressure introduced. you can try setting the low back to +/- 0, but then your going to have a whole different set of issues.
White smoke is generally a sign of a headgasket, but you told me already that the hg is fine..well you have smoke that is white in color, with a misfire in random cylinders and you told me that the car was running/idling very lean, this is leading me to believe more than your HG took a dump somewhere along the line.
The DP shouldnt be loose, the bolts tightened up very nicely and very smooth with no slips or cross threading. The oil leak that was coming from the return line, I tightened up, and if its loose again, simply remove the bolts from the exducer housing, pull the assembly apart and re-tighten it.
1 of 2 things is going on here. Either 1, there is something not connected/sealed properly (ie-HG, valve cover gasket, vacuum lines, etc.) and your just not seeing it, or diagnosing it properly. OR 2, who ever did your plugs messed with crap they werent supposed to mess with, and didnt connect something properly, and failed to tell you about it.
Last edited by turbodremz; 03-12-10 at 11:46 AM.
03-12-10, 11:53 AM
#9
It isnt running lean anymore. Its idleing fine now. Just has the smoke with misfire PLUS fluctuation between afrs. It was really rich when i turned it on today, then i fixed it and it was idleing awesome, then randomly it fell lean and i adjusted the setting accordingly. The lean issue was caused by a worn down rotor and cap, I saw it and it was poop. We now stand where I previously stated my conditions.
03-12-10, 11:57 AM
#10
are you making sure that the car is to temperature before making adjustments? A rich cold start is normal, so you shouldnt be adjusting anything until the car is normal operating temps..
and the white smoke and misfire, could possibly be valve covers/gaskets, but you need to be sure its not your HG.
and the white smoke and misfire, could possibly be valve covers/gaskets, but you need to be sure its not your HG.
03-12-10, 12:07 PM
#12
are you making sure that the car is to temperature before making adjustments? A rich cold start is normal, so you shouldnt be adjusting anything until the car is normal operating temps..
and the white smoke and misfire, could possibly be valve covers/gaskets, but you need to be sure its not your HG.
and the white smoke and misfire, could possibly be valve covers/gaskets, but you need to be sure its not your HG.
Last edited by ashtray; 03-12-10 at 12:17 PM.
03-12-10, 01:20 PM
#13
your safc settings are not correct. please dont flame me Im just trying to help you out.
your low should be 0 percent!!!! look on supraforums.
try this and see if it works, max you will have lost 30 minutes of your life and you can flame me all you want. I had literally the exact same setup as you.
set low to 0% across all rpms, leave the high points alone.
reset the ecu. now let the car run, get up to operating temps, and drive it around without boosting at all. If its mad lean or rich, in 1-2 drive cycles the ecu will use stock o2 sensor to fine tune the fuel adjustment, thats its job, it does it very well and when it does it actually changes the fuel trim instead of completely distorting the one signal that your car needs to run properly (the maf).
once you notice its started to learn, the idle will come back to a steady AFR range and from there you can fine tune the high settings on the safc.
adjusting the low settings is not the proper way to correct for partial boost unless you want to run rich all the time. the correct way to do this is to lower the % on the throttle number so the safc corrects earlier than WOT. bring the 94/95 number down slowly until you stop going lean in transition to boost. and the low and high throttle points could be further apart than 1% and it will average the 2 settings for any values inbetween. try like low around 40-50 and high from 70-80 range.
btw what would valve covers have to do with the engine misfiring. I have breathers on my valve covers which you could say is a giant air leak.. we all do. if its anything mechanical its more likely that your mechanic messed up your base timing somehow when messing with the dizzy.
edit: since you are in drawthrough you do have a small leak where air can come in through the crank case if you have a breather on it like I mentioned earlier. You have to give the ecu a few drive cycles to compensate for this air leak. this is the reason why the base settings run lean when you reset the ecu. its not dangerous, just let the ecu sort itself out before confusing it.
your low should be 0 percent!!!! look on supraforums.
try this and see if it works, max you will have lost 30 minutes of your life and you can flame me all you want. I had literally the exact same setup as you.
set low to 0% across all rpms, leave the high points alone.
reset the ecu. now let the car run, get up to operating temps, and drive it around without boosting at all. If its mad lean or rich, in 1-2 drive cycles the ecu will use stock o2 sensor to fine tune the fuel adjustment, thats its job, it does it very well and when it does it actually changes the fuel trim instead of completely distorting the one signal that your car needs to run properly (the maf).
once you notice its started to learn, the idle will come back to a steady AFR range and from there you can fine tune the high settings on the safc.
adjusting the low settings is not the proper way to correct for partial boost unless you want to run rich all the time. the correct way to do this is to lower the % on the throttle number so the safc corrects earlier than WOT. bring the 94/95 number down slowly until you stop going lean in transition to boost. and the low and high throttle points could be further apart than 1% and it will average the 2 settings for any values inbetween. try like low around 40-50 and high from 70-80 range.
btw what would valve covers have to do with the engine misfiring. I have breathers on my valve covers which you could say is a giant air leak.. we all do. if its anything mechanical its more likely that your mechanic messed up your base timing somehow when messing with the dizzy.
edit: since you are in drawthrough you do have a small leak where air can come in through the crank case if you have a breather on it like I mentioned earlier. You have to give the ecu a few drive cycles to compensate for this air leak. this is the reason why the base settings run lean when you reset the ecu. its not dangerous, just let the ecu sort itself out before confusing it.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-12-10 at 01:33 PM.
03-12-10, 01:31 PM
#14
Well...Tomorrow morning ill try to tuning method you just pointed out to me...But remember, I am OBDII. Idk if this method youve mentioned will work with me as it did with you. For now Im leaving the maf where it is. I could comfortably say that i trust my mechanic with something as simple as the dizzy. He has a lexus himself so I am throwing that option out the window. I am not going to flame you at all. This is a work in progress and Im taking all input into high consideration. I need my car back.