Stroker Kit..
04-15-02, 09:43 AM
#16
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Originally posted by MadMaxSC400
Thanks, my car isn't lowered, it's just sitting that way because the stock suspension's pretty beat
Thanks, my car isn't lowered, it's just sitting that way because the stock suspension's pretty beat
04-15-02, 10:59 AM
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4.7
what about a tundra crank, is'n the tundra a 4.7? wouldnt the tundra crank fit? ofcourse you will need custom pistons, so you can lower the wristpin.
figure 4.7 + 20 over pistons, figure 4.8-4.9, if i knew all the specs i could give an exact number
there is a formula, cant remember it off the top of my head.
by the way, i've stroked imports before, and without the right cams and ECU the engine dies in topend. all low end torque, but no topend HP. What do cams cost for the V8 ?
figure 4.7 + 20 over pistons, figure 4.8-4.9, if i knew all the specs i could give an exact number
there is a formula, cant remember it off the top of my head.
by the way, i've stroked imports before, and without the right cams and ECU the engine dies in topend. all low end torque, but no topend HP. What do cams cost for the V8 ?
04-15-02, 02:32 PM
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Stroker Kits
Two years ago I had an engine builder work on my 92 SC400. The goal was obviously more power.
Step one we ordered a new Tundra crank, when recieved and measured the difference in stroke, it was nominal and not where the Tundra gets it increased Size. Please note the Tundra block is a cast version of our Aluminum block from a crank and bearing basis.
Toyota utilized larger cyclinder sleeves for its increased displacement. The key to getting more displacement was larger steel sleeves. So we ordered stock Tundra dished pistons and a Tundra head gasket, and new steel sleeves to fit. By utilizing this combination we knew all the parts would fit together, which they did, and we would not have to order custom pitons, custom head gaskets. My stock connecting rods where used and worked just fine
The net compression ration dropped down to 9.6 from my stock on 1992 SC400, of 10.25. the pistons did require 40ths to be shaved off the top, and the heads were cleaned up with some nominal shaving. The ports were also lightly cleaned up more port matching than full porting. The 9.6 was a step in the wrong direction, but felt that a later upgrade to some form of supercharging in the future, it would be ok.
We utilized a G-Force Engineering ECU modification from a stock SC400, but they were never able to get enough fuel to the my larger engine, so ended up just having them fatten the entire band width by 10% so to not run lean.
We then had a complete new 2.5 inch stainless steel exhaust with new high flow 2.5 inch front cats, and a single dual in dual out 2.5inch center cat which acts like the new cross overs a lot of people are now using. this was finished off with new 2.5 inch rear mufflers. Good sound, some interior increase, but it definetly does not sound stock.
We left the ingnition alone as it was considered more than capable and well within capacity of the minor modifications we had made.
Had the cams checked, one lobe was 1 degree off from specs, then had the lobe heals ground down, which provides greater lift. The cams were installed 3 degrees retarded to maximize the opening timing with max piston speed.
Next was a Torq Convetor, which really brought all the modifications together, by getting the rpms up before engaging the trans. With Stock Supra Wheels 8.5 f 9.5 r and new tires, spinning one wheel is not a problem.
The Torq convertor drove with surges at low speed around town until I took out the screen in the air meter. With that most of the surges went away nor big difference in power, just smoother drivability.
We also opened up the stock air cleaner box by drilling 3, 1 inch holes in the top of the box. this made a noticable difference, we have since expanded this opening along the lines of Peter's modified air box idea.
Like most 4valve motors, this one loves high rpms. 80 to 120 will set you back in the seat, and when it kicks out of overdrive it puts a smile on your face. The goal of the project was 300-325 HP, I think we reached that, but 400plus would really be nice ( supercharger )
I just recieved a set of new TRD Supra sway bars, ( waiting for rear links ) from Steve at Carson Toyota, as well as a new LSD.
Still on order are the Supra front brake kit from Steve as well as a set of manuals for my car.
I think I will go the iridium plug route before finally get the car on the dyno. My goal is to have all the new equipment on and the have the Guys at WeaponR do thier magic. When this is done I will post the results, should be in 6 weeks or so given the limited time I have to work on the car.
Bottom line, The SC400 is a beautiful car which is easily enjoyed, but very costly to modify for high performance. I beleive the SC300 has much more potential from a straight performance standpoint, or any other car in which a supercharger can be installed for $5,000 plus or minus. My work was a one off project for my builder who was all so doing a Cadillac 4valve motor at the same time. His goal was a light weight motor for hot rod projects. From his stand point neither project could match the potential of a small block Chevy versus expense.
My wife and I are very happy with the car and have no regrets other than SwiftRacing not doing a supercharger for our car.
I must thank everyone at ClubLexus, for your ideas, trials and postings. Will be back when the the dyno run is done
Step one we ordered a new Tundra crank, when recieved and measured the difference in stroke, it was nominal and not where the Tundra gets it increased Size. Please note the Tundra block is a cast version of our Aluminum block from a crank and bearing basis.
Toyota utilized larger cyclinder sleeves for its increased displacement. The key to getting more displacement was larger steel sleeves. So we ordered stock Tundra dished pistons and a Tundra head gasket, and new steel sleeves to fit. By utilizing this combination we knew all the parts would fit together, which they did, and we would not have to order custom pitons, custom head gaskets. My stock connecting rods where used and worked just fine
The net compression ration dropped down to 9.6 from my stock on 1992 SC400, of 10.25. the pistons did require 40ths to be shaved off the top, and the heads were cleaned up with some nominal shaving. The ports were also lightly cleaned up more port matching than full porting. The 9.6 was a step in the wrong direction, but felt that a later upgrade to some form of supercharging in the future, it would be ok.
We utilized a G-Force Engineering ECU modification from a stock SC400, but they were never able to get enough fuel to the my larger engine, so ended up just having them fatten the entire band width by 10% so to not run lean.
We then had a complete new 2.5 inch stainless steel exhaust with new high flow 2.5 inch front cats, and a single dual in dual out 2.5inch center cat which acts like the new cross overs a lot of people are now using. this was finished off with new 2.5 inch rear mufflers. Good sound, some interior increase, but it definetly does not sound stock.
We left the ingnition alone as it was considered more than capable and well within capacity of the minor modifications we had made.
Had the cams checked, one lobe was 1 degree off from specs, then had the lobe heals ground down, which provides greater lift. The cams were installed 3 degrees retarded to maximize the opening timing with max piston speed.
Next was a Torq Convetor, which really brought all the modifications together, by getting the rpms up before engaging the trans. With Stock Supra Wheels 8.5 f 9.5 r and new tires, spinning one wheel is not a problem.
The Torq convertor drove with surges at low speed around town until I took out the screen in the air meter. With that most of the surges went away nor big difference in power, just smoother drivability.
We also opened up the stock air cleaner box by drilling 3, 1 inch holes in the top of the box. this made a noticable difference, we have since expanded this opening along the lines of Peter's modified air box idea.
Like most 4valve motors, this one loves high rpms. 80 to 120 will set you back in the seat, and when it kicks out of overdrive it puts a smile on your face. The goal of the project was 300-325 HP, I think we reached that, but 400plus would really be nice ( supercharger )
I just recieved a set of new TRD Supra sway bars, ( waiting for rear links ) from Steve at Carson Toyota, as well as a new LSD.
Still on order are the Supra front brake kit from Steve as well as a set of manuals for my car.
I think I will go the iridium plug route before finally get the car on the dyno. My goal is to have all the new equipment on and the have the Guys at WeaponR do thier magic. When this is done I will post the results, should be in 6 weeks or so given the limited time I have to work on the car.
Bottom line, The SC400 is a beautiful car which is easily enjoyed, but very costly to modify for high performance. I beleive the SC300 has much more potential from a straight performance standpoint, or any other car in which a supercharger can be installed for $5,000 plus or minus. My work was a one off project for my builder who was all so doing a Cadillac 4valve motor at the same time. His goal was a light weight motor for hot rod projects. From his stand point neither project could match the potential of a small block Chevy versus expense.
My wife and I are very happy with the car and have no regrets other than SwiftRacing not doing a supercharger for our car.
I must thank everyone at ClubLexus, for your ideas, trials and postings. Will be back when the the dyno run is done
04-15-02, 05:31 PM
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bore and stroke
whats the bore and stroke on the Tundra ans the SC400, that will tell you excactly what your getting.
its simple,
stroke=lowend torque
bore=hp
the larger your stroke the more torque you get, but you cant rev as high.
the shorter the stroke the higher you can rev, but you loose lowend torque
torque engines wont rev, rev engine wont produse torque.
HP is the easiest to produce, REV & Torque have to do with the design of the engine.
thats why hondas rev to 8000 rpm stock, but produce very lil torque, and bigblocks wont rev but produce lowend grunt.
so wat im saying is, to make more power you need to see what is optimal for your engine. Your not going to try to make a Big Block rev to 9000, and you are not going to try to make 600 lb ft of torque with a 1.6, just not going to happen.
With eather you can make 400 HP, but its up to the engine how it will get there.
exsample.
porsche boxter makes 250 hp via torque
honda s2000 makes 240 hp via rev
HP almost the same
Remember just because it feels fast, doesnt mean it is. torque motors always FEEL fast, but die on the top end. our cars dont feel fast, but come topend and we are flying without feeling it.
im gonna guess (just a guess) that the sc4 engine has a larger bore than stroke.
damn im rambling on. in short, we need to find what makes these motors fast, might be boring, might be stroking, might be head and cams, i can give you personal exsamples, but i dont want to boar you anymore
its simple,
stroke=lowend torque
bore=hp
the larger your stroke the more torque you get, but you cant rev as high.
the shorter the stroke the higher you can rev, but you loose lowend torque
torque engines wont rev, rev engine wont produse torque.
HP is the easiest to produce, REV & Torque have to do with the design of the engine.
thats why hondas rev to 8000 rpm stock, but produce very lil torque, and bigblocks wont rev but produce lowend grunt.
so wat im saying is, to make more power you need to see what is optimal for your engine. Your not going to try to make a Big Block rev to 9000, and you are not going to try to make 600 lb ft of torque with a 1.6, just not going to happen.
With eather you can make 400 HP, but its up to the engine how it will get there.
exsample.
porsche boxter makes 250 hp via torque
honda s2000 makes 240 hp via rev
HP almost the same
Remember just because it feels fast, doesnt mean it is. torque motors always FEEL fast, but die on the top end. our cars dont feel fast, but come topend and we are flying without feeling it.
im gonna guess (just a guess) that the sc4 engine has a larger bore than stroke.
damn im rambling on. in short, we need to find what makes these motors fast, might be boring, might be stroking, might be head and cams, i can give you personal exsamples, but i dont want to boar you anymore
04-15-02, 06:02 PM
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Playing with the cams as well as adjusting the ECU will probably do the most good. Assuming you can intake sufficeint air and then pass it out. Our 4valve motors provide great flexibilty, at $300 a pop your looking at $1200 for the cams plus modifications since no one is currently offering modified cam replacements.
The stock exhaust headers seem to flow sufficiently, so most benefit would come from a free flowing system from the headers back. Remember to not go to big as it will reduce the scavenging effect from reduced gas speed.
Then for those of us in California we have to still pass the every two year emissions test.
So far my car with it modifications runs cleaner than it did stock.
The stock exhaust headers seem to flow sufficiently, so most benefit would come from a free flowing system from the headers back. Remember to not go to big as it will reduce the scavenging effect from reduced gas speed.
Then for those of us in California we have to still pass the every two year emissions test.
So far my car with it modifications runs cleaner than it did stock.
04-15-02, 06:23 PM
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San Carlos is half way between San Francisco and San Jose on the Penisula.
As far as smog goes for some reason, a lot of people with modified cars go to SoCal for smog, must be something with the air ????
As far as smog goes for some reason, a lot of people with modified cars go to SoCal for smog, must be something with the air ????
04-15-02, 06:29 PM
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04-16-02, 10:13 AM
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The Tundra crank was the first one imported into the United States and with shipping was about $1,000
The builder had a goal in working on the Lexus engine so my costs were lower than what you could expect. Also the car was in the shop for 13 months as we asymbled parts and knowledge.
When this project was done the sleeve provider indicated that we were only one of four other projects like ours was in the works
Today there is more knowledge and parts availability. I would still estimate that quality craftmanship and parts would run $15,000 plus to duplicate. I would probably go with custom pistons, now that we know how clean the modified engines runs. Cam work is still a one off project and could go as high as $1,500 - $2,000 to make adjustments. Our cam shop had to create custom blanks to work on mine which took an extra 3 months because it was not a priority so delays are part of the game. Shims for the cams run $10-12 a peice and there are 32, I need 28 new shims.
Superchargers are a far better way to make Hp if you can get a kit for your car. With a supercharger and ECU and all new exhaust would be a great combo
The builder had a goal in working on the Lexus engine so my costs were lower than what you could expect. Also the car was in the shop for 13 months as we asymbled parts and knowledge.
When this project was done the sleeve provider indicated that we were only one of four other projects like ours was in the works
Today there is more knowledge and parts availability. I would still estimate that quality craftmanship and parts would run $15,000 plus to duplicate. I would probably go with custom pistons, now that we know how clean the modified engines runs. Cam work is still a one off project and could go as high as $1,500 - $2,000 to make adjustments. Our cam shop had to create custom blanks to work on mine which took an extra 3 months because it was not a priority so delays are part of the game. Shims for the cams run $10-12 a peice and there are 32, I need 28 new shims.
Superchargers are a far better way to make Hp if you can get a kit for your car. With a supercharger and ECU and all new exhaust would be a great combo
04-16-02, 10:39 AM
#26
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so this was definitely not the most economical upgrade. That was one of my major concerns. I wonder if Leo can get this done for less than that.. it'd be a hell of a way to beat smog. I am one of Leo's (Weapon-R) friends, and he tuned my car. Let's exchange some information, he mentioned your car to me about a month ago. sansui @ attbi.com
04-17-02, 05:52 PM
#27
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Hey Madmax,
It seems our cars may end up being twins soon as far as under the hood goes. So lets sum it up. How much do you guys think the parts and installation would cost all together?
It seems our cars may end up being twins soon as far as under the hood goes. So lets sum it up. How much do you guys think the parts and installation would cost all together?
04-17-02, 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by MadMaxSC400
Meader said 15 grand for the whole operation... Leo said 10 through places he knows.
Meader said 15 grand for the whole operation... Leo said 10 through places he knows.
04-17-02, 09:42 PM
#30
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Wow $10k or 15K is ugly. I might have to go to Orange County since my brother told me someone he knows got this type of work done for $2k for the boring of the cylinders with a port and polish I believe. I don't know if I could get the same deal since obviously it was a job for a friend and it was also probably an american car.