Engine swap for sc300, which engine?
05-17-09, 01:06 AM
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Engine swap for sc300, which engine?
ok so i'm trying to build a sc300 for track days, i know the handling's not the greatest but i love the car.
ok so what i've done some research and this is what i was thinking, please feel free to suggest anything thing else.
i'm after something that will do 650whp easy, and the engine can be pushed to 800hp if i wanted later for what eva reason. and a engine that i should be able to find on ebay or someting.
2jz-gte (vvti) - vvti becaue of better low end torque and power, this is a very strong engine, and proven very reliable, easily handle 650hp, but my concerns with this engine is turbo lag, low end power, the power band being mainly in the high rpm range, slightly heavy.
1uzfe (vvti) - same as the 2jz the vvti improves on low end torque and power, toyota V8 light and strong from its aluminum block with iron sleeves, also proven very reliable. though this engine sounds really good i dunno if its actually better than the 2jz. it has more displacement to spool turbos. but looking at the numbers from stock form it looks like 2jz produces more torque at about the same rpm range, i donno once moded how the power band will be.
LS1 (iron block) - ok this is a very popular american/aus engine, everything i'm after except it weighs the most, sadly i've read in a few places that the aluminum block starts to slowly degrade and warp after 650hp and isn't reliable for track days, thats why i've decided if i get a ls1 it'd be a iron block, its good a good power band, 5.7L(6.0L if i stroke it) to spool turbo's (if i turbo it, might supercharge but i think i lean more towards turbo's). good low end power and torque good power band. a it weights about 60Kg heavier than the 2jz so i've read.
money isn't the biggest issue, just need a engine with after market parts available. my main concerns are low end power/torque (cause lots of engines can make high end power), and weight.
other thing to concider
the v160/v161 getrag 6speed box from a supra will handle up to 1000hp easy, but the t56 only handles 550 at most and thats from a dodge viper, and the newer tr6060 i can't find anywhere, so i donno how hard it'll be getting a box for a ls1 that'll handle the power i want, or getting a t56 rebuilt so i can.
thanks,
ok so what i've done some research and this is what i was thinking, please feel free to suggest anything thing else.
i'm after something that will do 650whp easy, and the engine can be pushed to 800hp if i wanted later for what eva reason. and a engine that i should be able to find on ebay or someting.
2jz-gte (vvti) - vvti becaue of better low end torque and power, this is a very strong engine, and proven very reliable, easily handle 650hp, but my concerns with this engine is turbo lag, low end power, the power band being mainly in the high rpm range, slightly heavy.
1uzfe (vvti) - same as the 2jz the vvti improves on low end torque and power, toyota V8 light and strong from its aluminum block with iron sleeves, also proven very reliable. though this engine sounds really good i dunno if its actually better than the 2jz. it has more displacement to spool turbos. but looking at the numbers from stock form it looks like 2jz produces more torque at about the same rpm range, i donno once moded how the power band will be.
LS1 (iron block) - ok this is a very popular american/aus engine, everything i'm after except it weighs the most, sadly i've read in a few places that the aluminum block starts to slowly degrade and warp after 650hp and isn't reliable for track days, thats why i've decided if i get a ls1 it'd be a iron block, its good a good power band, 5.7L(6.0L if i stroke it) to spool turbo's (if i turbo it, might supercharge but i think i lean more towards turbo's). good low end power and torque good power band. a it weights about 60Kg heavier than the 2jz so i've read.
money isn't the biggest issue, just need a engine with after market parts available. my main concerns are low end power/torque (cause lots of engines can make high end power), and weight.
other thing to concider
the v160/v161 getrag 6speed box from a supra will handle up to 1000hp easy, but the t56 only handles 550 at most and thats from a dodge viper, and the newer tr6060 i can't find anywhere, so i donno how hard it'll be getting a box for a ls1 that'll handle the power i want, or getting a t56 rebuilt so i can.
thanks,
Last edited by curtains; 05-17-09 at 01:13 AM.
, turbo d make good power, very relible if worked, mercedes inline 5 or even inline 6, be something really unique
05-17-09, 07:20 PM
#3
LS1- who's selling subframes for this swap??
1uz- a lot more work to eek the #'s out. People are still trying to come up with a reliable low$ turbo kit for that honkey. Not saying the #'s can't be made because they definitely can. There are a lot of guys on here doing well with the 1uz however I haven't seen one on the track yet that can kill a well built 2jzgte non-vvti. You need to source a gte. You're right- tranny's are gonna be an issue. I'd do the getrag but if you want to use one of those other engines you can always get it popped open and built stronger. For the HP you want you're gonna need to go getrag...or dogbox one of the other ones.
1uz- a lot more work to eek the #'s out. People are still trying to come up with a reliable low$ turbo kit for that honkey. Not saying the #'s can't be made because they definitely can. There are a lot of guys on here doing well with the 1uz however I haven't seen one on the track yet that can kill a well built 2jzgte non-vvti. You need to source a gte. You're right- tranny's are gonna be an issue. I'd do the getrag but if you want to use one of those other engines you can always get it popped open and built stronger. For the HP you want you're gonna need to go getrag...or dogbox one of the other ones.
05-17-09, 10:57 PM
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What you read about the aluminum in LS1 blocks is only true for the first few years of engine production when the blocks were cast by Reynolds Metals. Reynolds messed something up in the alloy, and there were many problems with the early blocks. They switched to a canadian metal company, and those aluminum blocks are as strong as anything. Pretty much any aluminum LS1 made after '98 is good to go.
There will be no problem with durability in an aluminum LS1 block at 650hp. A big pro for a LS1 is that their bellhousing pattern is compatible with the good ol' smallblock chevy... so you can use a T56, a tremec, tko, or any one of the myriad of aftermarket transmissions out there. It will be easy to find a transmission capable of that power level to fit on the engine, there are many choices.
Conversion mounts won't be hard, there are just two of them. The ls1's got a deep skirted block similar to the 1uz so you would just need to find the right kind of oil pan.. many companies make swap oil pans for ls1 engines.
I think the advantage will be that you can stroke the LS1 to near 400ci and with the right setup be real close to your goal of 650hp without messing with any power adders. It's going to be a track car? A big turbo setup weighs more than you think, advantage goes to n/a aluminum engine that makes the power without the turbo setup weight. The other two of your choices will definitely need a power adder to reach your goals... and that could cause problems with reliability on the track (spool/lag, boost creep, heatsoaked intercooler, etc). Also, the LS1 is a short engine at only 63cm tall so your center of gravity will be lower.
It might sound like I'm an LS1 fanboy, but the truth is that the LS1 swap market is tremendously larger than most people realize. There are so many swap oil pans, swap headers, swap wiring harnesses, etc... that you might be able to put a ls1 in your car with the only thing needing to be fabricated being 2 engine mounts. It's so easy to put a LS1 into anything nowadays - the support for the engine platform is huge, so you won't have a problem with making the power or getting it to work in your chassis.. A LS1 swap was actually the plan for my beater SC400 if I couldn't get the engine running!
There will be no problem with durability in an aluminum LS1 block at 650hp. A big pro for a LS1 is that their bellhousing pattern is compatible with the good ol' smallblock chevy... so you can use a T56, a tremec, tko, or any one of the myriad of aftermarket transmissions out there. It will be easy to find a transmission capable of that power level to fit on the engine, there are many choices.
Conversion mounts won't be hard, there are just two of them. The ls1's got a deep skirted block similar to the 1uz so you would just need to find the right kind of oil pan.. many companies make swap oil pans for ls1 engines.
I think the advantage will be that you can stroke the LS1 to near 400ci and with the right setup be real close to your goal of 650hp without messing with any power adders. It's going to be a track car? A big turbo setup weighs more than you think, advantage goes to n/a aluminum engine that makes the power without the turbo setup weight. The other two of your choices will definitely need a power adder to reach your goals... and that could cause problems with reliability on the track (spool/lag, boost creep, heatsoaked intercooler, etc). Also, the LS1 is a short engine at only 63cm tall so your center of gravity will be lower.
It might sound like I'm an LS1 fanboy, but the truth is that the LS1 swap market is tremendously larger than most people realize. There are so many swap oil pans, swap headers, swap wiring harnesses, etc... that you might be able to put a ls1 in your car with the only thing needing to be fabricated being 2 engine mounts. It's so easy to put a LS1 into anything nowadays - the support for the engine platform is huge, so you won't have a problem with making the power or getting it to work in your chassis.. A LS1 swap was actually the plan for my beater SC400 if I couldn't get the engine running!
Last edited by defrag010; 05-17-09 at 11:05 PM.
05-18-09, 12:02 PM
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go with a 2jzgte with a r154 5 speed gear box with a sc400 rear end..friend has this set up and he runs 10's all day..well ofcourse he went single turbo but did not touch the inside of the engine with proper TUNING your good to go..tuning is the key
05-18-09, 12:20 PM
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If your building a track car the sc is the wrong car period. Its heavy and it turns like sh|t. Get a different car. But if you really insist on modding your sc:
First thing is if you want to mod your engine you dont want vvti, its just more work.
Second if you want power on the low end then you really need to go with a twin turbo setup. A 2jz-gte with one small turbo and one fat turbo might be exactly what your looking for. I would search supraforums if i were you. If money is no option then i cant see that being a problem for you.
First thing is if you want to mod your engine you dont want vvti, its just more work.
Second if you want power on the low end then you really need to go with a twin turbo setup. A 2jz-gte with one small turbo and one fat turbo might be exactly what your looking for. I would search supraforums if i were you. If money is no option then i cant see that being a problem for you.
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05-18-09, 12:51 PM
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Quick question...why is it sc300 or 400 are heavier then a mk4 supra? i believe we have an advantage due to no targa top? same chasis? just a question clarify why the sc's are heavier
05-18-09, 01:21 PM
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Not sure how the no sunroof models stock up but that sunroof is extra weight, the tilting steering wheel is extra weight, the doors are heavy and so is the hood, subwoofer, the lca arms are heavier then the newer supras. its all these minor differences that make the sc a more luxury car that add up to the 200ish lb difference.
at that.