Strength of metals after heating and cooling
01-19-09, 12:33 PM
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Lead Lap
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Strength of metals after heating and cooling
guys,
i've got a quick question for someone you who have knowledge of working w/ metals. this pertains to me wanting to modify my shifter.
how does heating and cooling metal affect it's strength? i'm wanting to heat my shifter and bend it to increase the angle of it. do i then let it air cool or should i dunk it in cold water? which will keep the metal as close to it's original strength as possible. tia.
i've got a quick question for someone you who have knowledge of working w/ metals. this pertains to me wanting to modify my shifter.
how does heating and cooling metal affect it's strength? i'm wanting to heat my shifter and bend it to increase the angle of it. do i then let it air cool or should i dunk it in cold water? which will keep the metal as close to it's original strength as possible. tia.
01-19-09, 02:30 PM
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dunk it in water. that allows the metal to be re-hardened after heating it up. i actually did this to my shifter when i messed up on the dimensions of my shifter extension on my R154 
. everything has been fine ever since. although now im gonna be remodding the extension so i can put in a C's shifter.
. everything has been fine ever since. although now im gonna be remodding the extension so i can put in a C's shifter.
01-19-09, 02:59 PM
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thx celiman. from my quick research, i don't think either way will affect it too much, as i don't believe i'll be heating it THAT much in order to put the slight bend. i'll dunk it in water just in case though.
01-19-09, 03:15 PM
#4
Doing the quench method does make metals harder, however quenching it in water when it is extremely hot will make it more brittle. If you want the strongest let it cool naturally, have it shot peened and then cryo'd. It's cheaper then you may think.
Just my .02.
Just my .02.
01-19-09, 03:27 PM
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^ what he said. quenching without tempering makes metal brittle. Just let it air cool and it will be fine. There is no need to dip it in water.
01-19-09, 05:16 PM
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mine didnt shatter. and ive been slamming gears on my R154 for quite some time now. as long as you dont heat it up numerous times, and dunk it numerous times, you should be fine. you dont need to heat it up wicked cherry red to get it to bend either. just use the "blacksmith method" kinda, and hit it gently with a hammer while hot, then cool.
Last edited by celiman05; 01-19-09 at 05:29 PM.
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01-19-09, 05:41 PM
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when i installed my r154, i figured out u can use the w58 shifter and it just fits, almost hitting the front section of the center shifter console when in 1,3, or 5. i want to slightly bend it back so it give me just a little more room. take a look at my post for pics as it sits now: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/3641385-post41.html
01-19-09, 06:21 PM
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ya looks like it could use a slight bend back. how long did you make the shifter extension? sorry kinda getting off topic but im just curious cuz mines too far back and i need to do some refiguring.
01-19-09, 06:57 PM
#11
Ok so for those that say that quenching is going to make the metal brittle and that it will shatter are half right. Yes its more prone to being brittle but this is due to the ferrite (iron) turning its crystal structure into martensite. To avoid this, a mild cool-down by using an oil quench bath with give the shifter the most strength while also reducing the brittleness by allowing the metal to cool slower.
Even by using a water bath its not like the shifter will explode or rip right off easily under a hard shift. I wouldnt worry too much as long as you dont cool it in a bath of ice water.
Even by using a water bath its not like the shifter will explode or rip right off easily under a hard shift. I wouldnt worry too much as long as you dont cool it in a bath of ice water.
01-19-09, 08:26 PM
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after spending many years studying mechanical engineering, vipsoarer is quite correct, but depending on how hot the metal gets changes the structure and how you cool it, but again just dont use super cold water, room temperature water should be fine and as long as the shifter isnt super narrow after you bend it, you shouldnt have to worry about it being brittle enough to "shatter" when you shift
01-20-09, 05:17 AM
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thanks for the extra info guys. how about cooling it down in a hotwater bath(pot of boiling water)? this should cool it a bit slower than just room temperature water (sorry if this is just a dumb idea...just an idea).
and celiman, i have made no modifications to anything. as it sits, it's a r154 w/ a w58 swan neck shifter (which sits an inch further back than the r154 shifter).
and celiman, i have made no modifications to anything. as it sits, it's a r154 w/ a w58 swan neck shifter (which sits an inch further back than the r154 shifter).
01-20-09, 07:00 AM
#14
Defn. not a dumb idea. Boiling water wouldnt be too bad. How are you going to get the heat? Oxycetelene would be the best. If you dont have access you might get enough heat using a propane torch to soften the shifter.
The fact is that air cooling is a slower process than sand or salt cooling, which is slower than oil. And oil is slower than water. Water is one of the best tools to disperse heat (reason why we use water in our radiators). Only prob is that water (and oil) can use capilary action and suck into cracks and expand in them if you have cracks.
If you go oxy gas, then i would use some old oil to quench in. If its only a propane torch you could get away with a pot of hot water for a few seconds, then into a medium temp bucket of water for a few seconds.
The fact is that air cooling is a slower process than sand or salt cooling, which is slower than oil. And oil is slower than water. Water is one of the best tools to disperse heat (reason why we use water in our radiators). Only prob is that water (and oil) can use capilary action and suck into cracks and expand in them if you have cracks.
If you go oxy gas, then i would use some old oil to quench in. If its only a propane torch you could get away with a pot of hot water for a few seconds, then into a medium temp bucket of water for a few seconds.
01-20-09, 07:37 AM
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i have a propane torch at home but can get access to oxycetelene at a friend's house. i'll probably try propane as it won't get as hot.
Defn. not a dumb idea. Boiling water wouldnt be too bad. How are you going to get the heat? Oxycetelene would be the best. If you dont have access you might get enough heat using a propane torch to soften the shifter.
The fact is that air cooling is a slower process than sand or salt cooling, which is slower than oil. And oil is slower than water. Water is one of the best tools to disperse heat (reason why we use water in our radiators). Only prob is that water (and oil) can use capilary action and suck into cracks and expand in them if you have cracks.
If you go oxy gas, then i would use some old oil to quench in. If its only a propane torch you could get away with a pot of hot water for a few seconds, then into a medium temp bucket of water for a few seconds.
The fact is that air cooling is a slower process than sand or salt cooling, which is slower than oil. And oil is slower than water. Water is one of the best tools to disperse heat (reason why we use water in our radiators). Only prob is that water (and oil) can use capilary action and suck into cracks and expand in them if you have cracks.
If you go oxy gas, then i would use some old oil to quench in. If its only a propane torch you could get away with a pot of hot water for a few seconds, then into a medium temp bucket of water for a few seconds.
