'S'Low Rider

So what are the problems with supercharging the V8?

I ask because I've never quite understood why there aren't more manufacturers out there supplying a 'kit'.....or specialists modifying cars...

My assumption is that there are as many V8 owners who want the extra horses as there are SC300 owners who want turbos...

Is it just down to cost? Surely its cheaper than turboing an SC300..

Lack of space in the engine bay? So move some bits around and there is plenty of space... ok if you put a roots blower in then you have to mod the bonnet But some of the newer compressors dont even need an oil feed.... at low pressure you shouldn't need an intercooler

Lack of performance......what else can you do!!!!!! Apart from a nitrous kit..... but they aren't known for smoothness..

Fuel supply? For a "stage 1" just a better fuel pump????

Belt slipping.......

What else is slowing down manufacturers offering superchargers for the V8??????

Black94RX-7TT

I'd say its a limited marketshare issue. The number of units they'll sell doesn't justify the R&D to properly develop a kit. Also, the engine electronics are a force to be reckoned with, and the engines and control electronics have undergone revisions fairly frequently....which means more kits to develop.

Some JDM tuner has, however, done a kit for the 4.3 in the new SC.

'S'Low Rider

Why are the engine electronics a problem? Do the SC300's not have the same problems?

Are we talking just about fuel mixture or is there something else?

Couldn't the Apexi S-AFC or the 'Unichip' be tuned to deal with the different fuel requirements?

I concede that a supercharger for the V8 would never be a volume seller but how many sc300's get turbo'd? To my 'innocent', non-technical eyes wouldn't a supercharger be easier to install? No oil feed, no intercooler?

Lex Luthor

Here's the rundown. Hood clearance issues exist on roots designs, the older C's supercharger will bolt up, but you'll have to add a scoop to the hood or a new hood altogether in order to clear the blower, since the kit was designed for the LS, which has more room between the plenum and the hood. The AutoCouture White convertible has this kit, thus the nasty Cobra Jet hood scoop you see on it. I had almost the exact same scoop on my '67 Mustang w/ Shelby body package, that right there should tell you something. C's has changed their design and the new model supposedly fits under the oe Soarer hood with no clearance issues. These kits produce about 5-6psi, nothing stellar, plus you'll have to modify the engine mgt with a meatier injector pulse width and a retarded spark curve (you might get away with stock timing and an S-AFC, but we'd have to see about that, perhaps a Haltech F5 or GReddy AIC with one or two 550cc aux injectors, like the 2JZ guys). You'll need a better fuel pump, nothing crazy, a MKIII Turbo pump will drop right in with a little tweaking of the sending unit. A centrifugal blower presents packaging issues, but these can be overcome, talk to Blown_SC400, he had a Vortech unit (an S-trim I think) mounted on the driver side (well, our driver side, not bass ackwards like you limeys). You'll have to put the battery in the boot, and relocate some wiring and a couple other things. As of now, it is not cheaper to do forced induction on the 8, Blown has spent well over $10,000 already, but he's looking for around 600rwhp. He's got a GTR FMIC, lotsa nice fabrication work, etc. SRT has been paaiinnfully slow in developing blower kits for the SC, and to tell you the truth, Mo's car isn't exactly an animal, they claim upwards of 800hp, the motor is a totally built, high-dollar 1UZ-FE, and he's getting mph figures similar to the guys with Toyomoto Stage1.5, and has had some problems with the head gaskets, I think even with the nice fasteners, his heads are 'walking' around on the block a bit. The Aussies have done some nice work with the 8, a couple of 1UZ's with Sprintex bike blowers, and these motors are verrry overbuilt and are handling boost on a stock reciprocating assembly, but as SC300TURBO painfully pointed out to me, it's just a matter of cost effectiveness. Toyomoto stage1 for the 2JZ is $5500, stage1.5 is $7000 and includes the addt'l fuel system componentry (AIC, etc). You can pay them $1000-2000 for installation, depending on stage, or you can do it yourself, not hard at all, changing out the manifold and tapping the oil line are the worst of it really. The included MKIV sidemount IC even bolts up to existing mounts in the Soarer. Performance Factory NYC, SP, PHR, and FMAX are a couple of alternatives, some better than others. Oh, and yeah Black, marketshare is pretty weak for a blower for the 8, you would want to use a pre- OBDII car, '95-down if I remember, so it's not a whole bunch of guys. Developing kits for the '96-97 cars and the '98-2K cars would not really be worth it I guess, unless there was compatibility with the GS. Conversely, you'd be surprised how many turbo 2JZ's are running around, literally hundreds, plus there's the IS3 now, so the turbo 2JZ will be a reality for a long time, whereas Lexus/Toyota has already redone the V8 4 times and there's still no one making serious power with one on the street. The track is a different story, Paisley's Taco is finished, Todd Matsubura has some great projects in the works, Blast Racing of course, and a couple others. Believe me, I want it to happen as bad as you, juice your V8 and get twelves no problem, or buy a 2JZ car and turbo it and have endless possibilities.

SCV8

If you spend about $3K in parts and some(?) hours messing with it all,you'd get 380-400 hp,with 5.5-6psi,stock timing,a self contained,add-on,boost activated injector setup($400 from SDS),and you'd probably have to mount the MAF upstream of it all to avoid problems.A larger exhaust would be good,and would cost around $1000 to accomplish.
Any more than that much boost,and things get way more expensive,harder to tune,easier to burn up sparkplugs.
I don't know what a turbo six ends up costing,for the comparable hp,but it might be worth it,I suppose.
It's too bad the huge suv thing doesn't use the same engine/accessory drive setup as on our cars,then there'd be some market,possibly,for such a kit.

'S'Low Rider

Thanks for the posts!

I think I understand the issues a little better.......

I'd better sign up to Supercharging 101....

Black94RX-7TT

To properly tune the engine you would need to re-map everything (fuel & ignition), then do a good bit of engine stand dyno testing to assure longevity.

The SC400 ECUs differ from the SC300 ECUs in that the SC400s calculate in sort of a parallel processing fashion....two ECUs, two ROMs, etc. SO, you have to put double the electronics in there, and NipponDenso only knows what kind of interprocess communications goes on between the two.

You could use a hack-on postprocessor system...but its a hack, you wouldn't get optimal performance, and if one of those wiring splices fell off then you'd blast $6000 worth of aluminum.

'S'Low Rider

I suppose that if money was no object then you could strip down a GS400, engine, gearbox, ecu and transplant them into an SC400 and then add in the Swift supercharger.........

Dreams..........

Black94RX-7TT

AFAIK, the 98-00 SC400s got the same engine and transmission as the GS of the same vintage. The difference is in the tuning of the ECU, and extras for the "paddle shift", so you're most of the way there already if you have a '98-'00 car. What does the Swift unit include? Just the 'charger?

UZZ32

The MiNes VX-rom (a complete ECU upgrade from Japan) would appear to only change have the board - not both sides.
Mines on the left, standard on the right.

UZZ32

The MiNes VX-rom (a complete ECU upgrade from Japan) would appear to only change have the board - not both sides.
Mines on the left, standard on the right.

UZZ32

that should read "half" the board not "have" the board. Here is what it looks like underneath.

Black94RX-7TT

*shrug* Its quite possible that both processors read from the same ROM....although this could cause some problems if simultaneous reads occurred. There are also two very similar, if not identical chips on the piggyback module in the modified ECU, possibly a ROM for each.

I haven't taken apart an ECU to see for myself, but there appears to be a large degree of symmetry in the design looking at your pictures. The dual processor info came from this forum, some guys who had been researching upgrade options for the ECU.

Black94RX-7TT

Now that I look again, closer, it looks like the piggyback has a single ROM chip (with the sticker) and two others....processors maybe?

Bean

iTrader: (1)

I doubt there'd be any read errors if there was an appropriate memory controller of some sort...

those look like ordinary memory chips on it to me; perhaps its for a different program; and instead of totally wiping and redoing the memory; they just made a piggyback to tap in?

maybe they did it that way to make it more precise? i still wonder why they'd make a dual processor ECU... a waste of money if you ask me; especially when every other car out there got by fine with just one