GTE head
07-19-08, 02:53 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
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GTE head
I was talking to a friend of mine who had a single .67mm turbo on his Turbo supra, and he said that the bottoms of a 2jzge and gte are so identical that you can instead of doing a whole gte swap, put the gte head on the ge bottom, making a..2jzgegte (haha) and put your turbo mani on and your turbo and hold as much power as a gte. Is this true? if so then this should open many doors for us ge-ers.
I'd rather spend under a thousand on a gte head, then 3000 on a whole gte motor if they can hold the same power and are identical.
Any help? i'm wanting to go turbo but i cant decide on NA-T or GTE
I'd rather spend under a thousand on a gte head, then 3000 on a whole gte motor if they can hold the same power and are identical.
Any help? i'm wanting to go turbo but i cant decide on NA-T or GTE
07-19-08, 03:58 PM
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The GE and GTE blocks are very identical. A couple things set them apart like the lower compression pistons and the oil squirters. Yes you can put a GTE head on a GE block but who would want to do it with higher compression pistons that would limit your boost potential. Also I think you might be looking at more than $1000 to convert over to GTE with just the head. The wiring harness and ECU are already close to hitting that number. Boosting an SC can run you quite a bit of money depending on how you piece together your setup. The cheap alternative would be to go NA-T. An Aristo GTE will run you about $1-2000 depending on the distributor. A USDM GTE will run you $3000+. If you are looking for big numbers (500-1000hp) I'd run a GTE. Of course you would also have to fork out a few thousand more for a stronger drivetrain that can handle all that power. The NA-T setup basically limits up to about 400hp+ because of the W58 transmission.
Basically you just kind of have to think about what kind of power you are looking for. Then choose the platform that best fits you and your budget.
Basically you just kind of have to think about what kind of power you are looking for. Then choose the platform that best fits you and your budget.
07-19-08, 04:56 PM
#4
i was thinking of that setup too, thanks jspec for the info, is there a head gasket that can drop the comp a little bit on the ge's, cus im gonna do that and drop in arp head studs when i go na-t.
07-19-08, 11:50 PM
#7
throw a gte head gasket on it and youll be in the low 9's for cr. That should be good enough, or you could always get an hks metal headgasket for a lower cr drop. I cant remember who did it but in around 2005 there was a black sc3 with a gte headswap, tt tranny (used the sc4 driveshaft). In the end he said he spent as much as a full swap to get all the sensors in place. Last name was Nguyen. Its been a while... but in all you can do it w/o a problem and it will be just as strong as a full tt swap and you can set your cr to whatever through different headgasket sizes.
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07-20-08, 07:39 AM
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TAKEN FROM SUPRA FORUMS NA SECTION
Hello everyone. Here's a (very long, revised for 1 hr!) email i sent another member with the same question. some of these apply to going straight stock twins... you need to delete the stuff you don't need if you're planning on swapping to a TT head and going single... or AEM, etc. Basically the random vsv's and vacuum piping to control the sequential operation, etc. If you've got the Toyota manual it's great because some of the parts I mention here are exactly as labeled on the manual, which will help you highlight/check off the parts you need or already have. The original writeup was written in 2004 and the only edits have been made to add or change the pics. 5 years after the swap and still going strong! Good luck!
Tony
To go NA to TT keeping your NA block, besides the obvious like the complete head (incl. cam sensors, temp sensor, etc), stock twins w/ all piping AND BRACKETS, IC and piping, BOV, valve covers, intake (and brackets and sensors), throttle body (and sensors), ECU and wiring harness, air flow meter or VPC, coil packs, you're gonna need the following parts:
All the vsv's and vacuum piping. You need the TT pressure tank, bracket, and the vsv that controls it. You're also gonna need a TT power steering pump, since the NA reservoir directly on top of the pump is in the way of the TT intake. You'll also need a TT PS pump reservoir which is like $100 new or you can modify the NA one, which I don't recommend if you care about aesthetics.
You need the TT water outlet and TT "#1 water bypass pipe" with 2 O-rings that connects to it, you can't use the NA one. You need the TT water pump. You need the water lines for the turbos which should come w/ the turbos if you purchase them used, also the metal water pipes that go around the block. I recommend you get all the hoses new from Toyota and don't start until you have them all... some of mine were on backorder and I used old ones. I've since had to replace them and it's MUCH easier to do them w/ the engine on a stand. You're also gonna have to get this little fitting just called "union" that feeds water to the oil cooler from the driver's (on a LHD car ) side of the block, the NA one has a plug. You can use the same NA lower radiator hose, and you can use the neck that attaches to the NA water pump, but you have to bore out the holes for the studs, as the angle/size isn't right and it won't fit on the TT water pump. You need the TT fan as the blades on the NA fan won't clear the water outlet. You're gonna need TT heater hoses to and from the firewall, do this now because it's a PAIN to do it afterwards. You'd probably like a TT or preferably a PWR or Fluidyne radiator as the NA one didn't last me too long. You might wanna change the fan shroud for a TT one and get the extra electric fan if you live in real hot climates cause my A/C here in Miami doesn't work too well when I'm stopped in traffic in the 90+ degree heat. Works great as soon as you start moving though.
Where are you getting the oil from to feed the turbos? I drilled and tapped the union bolt on the oil cooler, which by the way, you're also gonna need. I used a SS braided line from that fitting, which T'd off to 2 lines which then screwed onto modified TT oil feed/return lines that0 were cut off and had a fitting welded on that I could screw my oil feed lines into. For oil return I used the stock TT fitting on the pan and drilled and tapped my oil pan while it was off the car. If you go the stock route and use the stock return fitting make sure you use studs on the oil pan and use nuts to hold the fitting onto the pan, or you'll risk stripping the pan as I did, the aluminum is very soft.
You need the crankshaft timing pulley for the crank pos. sensor to read off of and you're most likely gonna have to get the TT oil pump to mount the sensor (which you also need to purchase). Some people have found that their NA oil pumps are the same as the TT ones and have a place for the crank position sensor there. I don't know the details on that but these might be leftover TT pumps used on NA cars, or cars with VVT-i, I'm not sure how this goes, others such as LexLuthor can shed more light on this. You need the timing belt plate to hold the timing belt in place, even though I didn't use it and haven't had a prob. with it in 2+ years. It was like 40 cents but was also on backorder til a week after i got my car done. You might wanna bore out the oil pump valve body to prevent front main seal leaks, search on that topic. I didn't do it and I haven't had a problem (as of Feb. 2007) you don't *need* it but some ppl opt to do it.
You're gonna need a Fuel Pump ECU and connector, to splice into the NA fuel ECU harness. This is an expensive piece from toyota, and tough to find. Some people hardwire the pump to a 12v source but the pump only runs at 12v when the engine needs the extra gas at high boost, 9v otherwise. Running at 12v constant can overheat the pump or just reduce its life, and it's also not recommended on mkiv.com. I ended up running my own power wire to the fuel pump ECU due to a lack of a relay in the fuse box and a PITA re-wiring the stock wiring. I added my own relay w/ a 30amp fuse. You're gonna have to get a TT fuel pump or aftermarket equivalent and either a TT fuel pump bracket, or modify your NA one for the TT pump to fit (it's a little taller). While you're in there you can zip tie the fuel level float so it won't come off down the line, making you have to go back in there to re-attach it. You also need a TT fuel rail and injectors along with fuel pressure regulator.
You're gonna need a TT alternator because the NA one won't supply enough current and will drain your battery, you can get a reman one from toyota because the new one is like $750+. I don't remember how much i paid for the reman. one but it was a big difference. You need a TT tachometer because the NA one won't work. Don't worry about rewiring anything, just plug and play. As far as other accessories working, such as A/C and stuff, I think that's a problem only with Lexuses (lexi?). On the Supra it's plug and play as well.
For the head gasket, you can't just use the stock TT head gasket. You could, but it's not ideal, you need to lower your compression a little more. I used 2 TT head gaskets, remove the rivets and alternate the layers (thick thin thick thin thick thin) and then re-rivet, i suggest you have this done at a shop, unless you can handle it or try to buy one already made. Where are you located? Toyomoto made mine but I'm not sure if they still make them. Ask the companies that advertise here and find out who can make you the gasket.
Wow just writing this i'm realizing how much work I went through. Um... you're gonna also need the accelerator cable since it's not long enough, and the cruise control cable to the actuator. You need a tube of FIPG (form in place gasket), and lots of mineral spirits to clean stuff if you're workin on it yourself. Oil dip stick i *think* is different but don't quote me. Ask a Jeff, Curt or Fyrarms or any other Toyota parts guy. You don't wanna be reading "full" when you're really a couple quarts low, or vice versa.
You're gonna need the injector solenoid resistor and the ignitor. WOW this is a lot of stuff. When you wire the fuel pump ECU and part of your engine wiring harness to the fuse box it'll get a little tricky cause you're gonna have to do some custom wiring. On the engine side there's two thick red/black wires and on the fusebox side there's one thick red/black wire that you need to splice together. Plus you need to wire an extra relay for the fuel pump since we don't have a EFI2 fuse on the NA fusebox. It's been over 2 years since I wired this so I don't remember specifics and it's kinda stuffed deep in there but I can go there and look if you need help. If I see a wiring schematic for both cars, (NA and TT), I can also guide you through it. You need to get the TT#1 O2 sensor, the 2nd one has nowhere to plug into so you need an O2 sensor simulator. Get rid of your EGR if at all possible (not for CA emissions states, though with an engine conversion, EGR removal is the least of your worries)
As far as gaskets and O-rings and stuff, get a TT head rebuild kit at least, if not a complete engine rebuild kit, which comes with every gasket you need. You're also gonna need the TT #1 timing belt cover, the NA one has some vacuum piping on it. I don't remember if it can be modified to fit (cut/grind the piping?). Also if you've got a 5spd/6spd you're gonna wanna get the TT accessory belt tensioner with the dampener and the little piece that bolts on to the oil pump.
For your reverse lights you're gonna have to just snip off the TT clip off the TT engine wiring harness and splice in the NA (5spd) clip on the NA engine wiring harness so it'll plug into your tranny. I don't know what to do for an auto tranny, sorry. I don't know if the NA auto and TT auto are compatible.
I wouldn't be able to help you with splicing together the NA and TT engine wiring harnesses because I bought a 6spd harness from a friend who wrecked. I had my buddy who works at Delta repair any damages and basically test each wire for continuity before I used it. I think LexLuthor would be able to help you with this part too. I think this is it, but like I said, it's been over 2 years so if I remember anything or if anyone reminds me of anything or has any other concerns I'll come here and edit it.
Lemme know of any other questions you have and I'll be more than happy to help.
Tony
Hello everyone. Here's a (very long, revised for 1 hr!) email i sent another member with the same question. some of these apply to going straight stock twins... you need to delete the stuff you don't need if you're planning on swapping to a TT head and going single... or AEM, etc. Basically the random vsv's and vacuum piping to control the sequential operation, etc. If you've got the Toyota manual it's great because some of the parts I mention here are exactly as labeled on the manual, which will help you highlight/check off the parts you need or already have. The original writeup was written in 2004 and the only edits have been made to add or change the pics. 5 years after the swap and still going strong! Good luck!
Tony
To go NA to TT keeping your NA block, besides the obvious like the complete head (incl. cam sensors, temp sensor, etc), stock twins w/ all piping AND BRACKETS, IC and piping, BOV, valve covers, intake (and brackets and sensors), throttle body (and sensors), ECU and wiring harness, air flow meter or VPC, coil packs, you're gonna need the following parts:
All the vsv's and vacuum piping. You need the TT pressure tank, bracket, and the vsv that controls it. You're also gonna need a TT power steering pump, since the NA reservoir directly on top of the pump is in the way of the TT intake. You'll also need a TT PS pump reservoir which is like $100 new or you can modify the NA one, which I don't recommend if you care about aesthetics.
You need the TT water outlet and TT "#1 water bypass pipe" with 2 O-rings that connects to it, you can't use the NA one. You need the TT water pump. You need the water lines for the turbos which should come w/ the turbos if you purchase them used, also the metal water pipes that go around the block. I recommend you get all the hoses new from Toyota and don't start until you have them all... some of mine were on backorder and I used old ones. I've since had to replace them and it's MUCH easier to do them w/ the engine on a stand. You're also gonna have to get this little fitting just called "union" that feeds water to the oil cooler from the driver's (on a LHD car ) side of the block, the NA one has a plug. You can use the same NA lower radiator hose, and you can use the neck that attaches to the NA water pump, but you have to bore out the holes for the studs, as the angle/size isn't right and it won't fit on the TT water pump. You need the TT fan as the blades on the NA fan won't clear the water outlet. You're gonna need TT heater hoses to and from the firewall, do this now because it's a PAIN to do it afterwards. You'd probably like a TT or preferably a PWR or Fluidyne radiator as the NA one didn't last me too long. You might wanna change the fan shroud for a TT one and get the extra electric fan if you live in real hot climates cause my A/C here in Miami doesn't work too well when I'm stopped in traffic in the 90+ degree heat. Works great as soon as you start moving though.
Where are you getting the oil from to feed the turbos? I drilled and tapped the union bolt on the oil cooler, which by the way, you're also gonna need. I used a SS braided line from that fitting, which T'd off to 2 lines which then screwed onto modified TT oil feed/return lines that0 were cut off and had a fitting welded on that I could screw my oil feed lines into. For oil return I used the stock TT fitting on the pan and drilled and tapped my oil pan while it was off the car. If you go the stock route and use the stock return fitting make sure you use studs on the oil pan and use nuts to hold the fitting onto the pan, or you'll risk stripping the pan as I did, the aluminum is very soft.
You need the crankshaft timing pulley for the crank pos. sensor to read off of and you're most likely gonna have to get the TT oil pump to mount the sensor (which you also need to purchase). Some people have found that their NA oil pumps are the same as the TT ones and have a place for the crank position sensor there. I don't know the details on that but these might be leftover TT pumps used on NA cars, or cars with VVT-i, I'm not sure how this goes, others such as LexLuthor can shed more light on this. You need the timing belt plate to hold the timing belt in place, even though I didn't use it and haven't had a prob. with it in 2+ years. It was like 40 cents but was also on backorder til a week after i got my car done. You might wanna bore out the oil pump valve body to prevent front main seal leaks, search on that topic. I didn't do it and I haven't had a problem (as of Feb. 2007) you don't *need* it but some ppl opt to do it.
You're gonna need a Fuel Pump ECU and connector, to splice into the NA fuel ECU harness. This is an expensive piece from toyota, and tough to find. Some people hardwire the pump to a 12v source but the pump only runs at 12v when the engine needs the extra gas at high boost, 9v otherwise. Running at 12v constant can overheat the pump or just reduce its life, and it's also not recommended on mkiv.com. I ended up running my own power wire to the fuel pump ECU due to a lack of a relay in the fuse box and a PITA re-wiring the stock wiring. I added my own relay w/ a 30amp fuse. You're gonna have to get a TT fuel pump or aftermarket equivalent and either a TT fuel pump bracket, or modify your NA one for the TT pump to fit (it's a little taller). While you're in there you can zip tie the fuel level float so it won't come off down the line, making you have to go back in there to re-attach it. You also need a TT fuel rail and injectors along with fuel pressure regulator.
You're gonna need a TT alternator because the NA one won't supply enough current and will drain your battery, you can get a reman one from toyota because the new one is like $750+. I don't remember how much i paid for the reman. one but it was a big difference. You need a TT tachometer because the NA one won't work. Don't worry about rewiring anything, just plug and play. As far as other accessories working, such as A/C and stuff, I think that's a problem only with Lexuses (lexi?). On the Supra it's plug and play as well.
For the head gasket, you can't just use the stock TT head gasket. You could, but it's not ideal, you need to lower your compression a little more. I used 2 TT head gaskets, remove the rivets and alternate the layers (thick thin thick thin thick thin) and then re-rivet, i suggest you have this done at a shop, unless you can handle it or try to buy one already made. Where are you located? Toyomoto made mine but I'm not sure if they still make them. Ask the companies that advertise here and find out who can make you the gasket.
Wow just writing this i'm realizing how much work I went through. Um... you're gonna also need the accelerator cable since it's not long enough, and the cruise control cable to the actuator. You need a tube of FIPG (form in place gasket), and lots of mineral spirits to clean stuff if you're workin on it yourself. Oil dip stick i *think* is different but don't quote me. Ask a Jeff, Curt or Fyrarms or any other Toyota parts guy. You don't wanna be reading "full" when you're really a couple quarts low, or vice versa.
You're gonna need the injector solenoid resistor and the ignitor. WOW this is a lot of stuff. When you wire the fuel pump ECU and part of your engine wiring harness to the fuse box it'll get a little tricky cause you're gonna have to do some custom wiring. On the engine side there's two thick red/black wires and on the fusebox side there's one thick red/black wire that you need to splice together. Plus you need to wire an extra relay for the fuel pump since we don't have a EFI2 fuse on the NA fusebox. It's been over 2 years since I wired this so I don't remember specifics and it's kinda stuffed deep in there but I can go there and look if you need help. If I see a wiring schematic for both cars, (NA and TT), I can also guide you through it. You need to get the TT#1 O2 sensor, the 2nd one has nowhere to plug into so you need an O2 sensor simulator. Get rid of your EGR if at all possible (not for CA emissions states, though with an engine conversion, EGR removal is the least of your worries)
As far as gaskets and O-rings and stuff, get a TT head rebuild kit at least, if not a complete engine rebuild kit, which comes with every gasket you need. You're also gonna need the TT #1 timing belt cover, the NA one has some vacuum piping on it. I don't remember if it can be modified to fit (cut/grind the piping?). Also if you've got a 5spd/6spd you're gonna wanna get the TT accessory belt tensioner with the dampener and the little piece that bolts on to the oil pump.
For your reverse lights you're gonna have to just snip off the TT clip off the TT engine wiring harness and splice in the NA (5spd) clip on the NA engine wiring harness so it'll plug into your tranny. I don't know what to do for an auto tranny, sorry. I don't know if the NA auto and TT auto are compatible.
I wouldn't be able to help you with splicing together the NA and TT engine wiring harnesses because I bought a 6spd harness from a friend who wrecked. I had my buddy who works at Delta repair any damages and basically test each wire for continuity before I used it. I think LexLuthor would be able to help you with this part too. I think this is it, but like I said, it's been over 2 years so if I remember anything or if anyone reminds me of anything or has any other concerns I'll come here and edit it.
Lemme know of any other questions you have and I'll be more than happy to help.
Tony
02-08-09, 05:25 PM
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yes i am pretty sure it will, my idea was to rear mount my turbo so far i have only taken my ge apart and priced my turbo, 262 cam and headers i am also just shooting for 450. i am also sourcing gte concting rods and pistons.
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