atx

iTrader: (1)

I'm talking about you posting your friend's post as a purchasing motivator for this:

c0wboy

Come on man, you're joking right? Hey listen. I'll say it like this. I'm not trying to push rods now because frankly no one with a V8 on CL needs them as of yet. My purpose was to provide info, and that was it. You can believe it or leave it be. It's no problem to me, trust me.

Eric

rwdpwr

great debate but i agree that the vice twisting was not the proper test to determine how "strong" or "weak" rods are. lets see some real test all u crazy smart engineers!

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

Come on ATX, give the man a break!! Just because he sells replacement rods that are far better than the stock rods for FI applications and that he is the only one that has come out with a turbo kit for the 1UZ, does not make Eric a bad or dishonest person...And even if his motivation is to sell parts by providing information that could justify the need for those parts, why should he be castigated for it? Even though his method of showing apparent rod weakness is not scientific, the fact remains that the 1UZ internals are not boost friendly, and will break under high and consistent boost stress. For low boost applications, the 1UZ will probably maintain for some time, but still consider that most anybody boosting their 1UZ would be wise to understand that the car is at minimum 8 years old (and that would be a 2000 model which only a few hundred were even made in the SC, I know more were made in the GS and LS models), the miles will probably be at least 50,000 plus; and more than likely, the car will be over 13 years old, with well over 100,000 miles on it. You are already at a disadvantage to add FI because there is already significant age and wear. These cars will last and run for a very long time in their stock form if properly maintained, but adding boost is a completely different animal, and it adds stress everywhere, throughout the whole drive train. So, IMHO, and as I mentioned in a previous post, it would be very wise to consider a complete engine rebuild, plus not going back to stock internals, but adding forged internals.

The Pauter rods manufactured for the 1UZ that Eric and MVP sell are some of the very best made anywhere in the world. These rods are made for abuse, and are scientifically tested and road race proven to handle the stresses that come from constant and high boost. But Eric did not mention these rods in this post, I did. And I have no connection to Eric, nor do I make 1 cent from anything he or MVP sells.

So, why my motivation for standing up for Eric in this post? Because he is correct that the stock internals are not boost friendly, especially the used and worn parts, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with him mentioning this, even if his motivation is to sell quality replacement parts. Since when did it become a bad thing to sell things???

It has been asked repeatedly in other posts what I do to afford my project, and I proudly state that I am a professional sales person. I love sales, and the profession has been very good to me. Without selling, there would be no business. Selling is an honorable profession, and it is one of the most lucrative professions in the world... Top sales people make high dollars, in fact, a top sales person often makes more income than most any of his customers he sells to. Six figure incomes are common among the top sales performers, and some make seven figure incomes...I do not want to go too far off topic here, but my point is that one should not shoot the messenger, and I stand with Eric on this one.

So, please cut him some slack, and let's keep to the thread, and not clutter it up with un-needed accusations...Let's all be friends here, this forum is one of the very best on the web, and it is a place where all of us come to learn and share information that helps us to make our cars and our experiences with our cars better. Plus, I have garnered some great friends from my 4 years of experience on CL. What a fantastic forum...

BTW, Eric, you stated that no one on CL needs those rods yet, remember I do, and I have them installed in my project...

Ryan

ScottURnot

iTrader: (33)

This is of great interest to me! I am running 7lbs boost on stock 97 internals but wanting to up it to 10lbs. I have a spare engine that I was intending to upgrade the internals on but that is really a stage II deal on my project. I am confused on the rod selection. You say those are 92-97 rods but I was thinking they might be 92-94. I stole this picture from Lextreme, this is a rod comparison for different years. What do you think? I am wondering if the later rods are less brittle.

ScottURnot

iTrader: (33)

These are what I intend to use on stage 2

gunluvS14

that's what I've tried to say the entire time, but my response doesn't seems to sink in and got washed out.

When I saw the first picture, I was like WTF.... With all the respect, I showed those pictures to my coworkers, they got a good laugh. We mechanical engineers do research and development for living, and "technical testing" like this one really made our day in the boring office.

Serious note, if I get a hold on some of these rods, I will be more than happy to take it down to the material lab and tell you everything about it.
Rockwell Hardness, Tensile Strength, and fatigue life of the rod bolt.

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

I never missed nor lost your message...In fact, I agreed with you. I just wanted to state that regardless of the flawed methodology to test the rod strength, we should do so with respect and refrain from needless accusations. I am not referring to you...

Ryan

atx

iTrader: (1)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sales, but the VAST MAJORITY of salesmen are not honorable. They are at an advantage to every-day consumers because they have knowledge and the consumer does not. Of course, I am throwing around all sorts of stereotypes, but all too often I see customers being taken advantage of due to misleading information, undisclosed details and downright false claims. That being said, I do NOT think Eric has any malicious intentions, but my accusation is not so unrealistic as to be far-fetched. The man works with a shop that does a lot of great custom and forged-internals work (or at least has connections to one), and he re-publicized a post about "how bad part X was in the motor" (of which he sells an improved version).

The problem was the unscientific and inaccurate nature the post. I am ALL for the spread of information, research and knowledge. After all, I am a fan of the Internet. I am NOT for rumors, baseless claims or lies, ESPECIALLY when salesmanship is involved. Again, I don't think Eric is trying to be dishonest, but this seemed like indirect advertising...

If there was a vote, I would vote YES to gunluvS14's test proposition.

c0wboy

Atx, maybe if I offered up an alternative connecting rod to the fragile 1uz rods, I could see your point. However if you'll notice I did not. Therefore I honestly think you don't have a leg to stand on. I mean think about it for a second.

...I make NO mention of there even being upgraded rods avaialable.

...The only shop I mention is Arnouts personal workshop out in the Netherlands since he perfromed the test.

...I posted pics and a link to the original thread, giving credit to the original people involved, not me.

Now all that being said, I will say this. With the exception of a dozen or so, many folks on CL seem a little bent that I even breathe the same air as they do. I always wonder why since my record is impecible. I supply MVP Motorsports and many other companies with some of the highest quality performance items on the market, many of which folks don't know comes from me. At any given time we have 9-10 different projects juggling in mid air between 3 machine shops and a host of supporting companies, many for the very V8 many of you have under your hoods which I might add, no one else in the performance industry gives a crap about. Plus I am one of the easiest guys to talk with. But even after all that, I still get pissed on for posting a simple rod breakage test peformed oveseas, and get accused of indirectly advertising a set of **** ant rods which I couldn't care any less to move on CL. I think it's unfair, and frankly you have offended me sir.

Eric

ScottURnot

iTrader: (33)

I got to go with Eric on this one.
Lets get this thread back on track!

ScottURnot

iTrader: (33)

Eric,
Based on the pictures would you say the rods tested are the early ones and my 97 has even weaker ones?

c0wboy

Scott,

The rods that broke into a pieces in Patricks motor appear to be of the later, thinner generarion. However the ones tested by Arnout were the thick rods from the early generation and are the snapping over when stressed.

My last thoughts on the unneeded controversey. If someone else can do the test better, then please do so. My money is on the results being the same. This test was on the fly, and to me falls in line with what we see in teh real world. If there are engineers here that feel that they need numbers to qualify the finds then by all means hop to it.

Thanks for the support Scott. I don't get why I get a hard time here when I'm trying to further the community as a whole.

Eric

Konnan101

so where's a good place to get forged internals for the 1uz?

c0wboy

MVP Motorsports all the way. Dusty and Kevin have 100% eximplary customer service and pick up the phone every time.

(940) 683-8282

What do you have in mind?

Eric