RikTT

iTrader: (2)

Mitsuguy...thanx for the useful info, appreciated!

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

no problem... figure I work in the industry and I see about 10-15 cars every day with A/C problems, especially here in Vegas where it routinely gets to be 115+

aliga

iTrader: (147)

stop being cheap, take it to 104th st auto.

Harbinger

How would I know if my car has already been converted from R12 to R134a? It's a 93 and I'm the 3rd owner - 1st was a 3 year lease return, and the 2nd was a long time owner, and I purchased their trade-in. Obviously it was R12 to begin with, but how would I know if the 2nd owner converted the system?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

you have to look at the fittings... if you can unscrew the fitting, then it's been converted, if the fitting is part of the a/c line, then it hasn't....

Harbinger

cool, thanks. Based on the fittings, looks like it's still R12. Either have to find a local place to do the recharge or convert it. Anyone know of a good shop to recharge R12 in the Dallas area? I'm located in Rowlett, but have no issues driving anywhere within reason.

aliga

iTrader: (147)

take it to JPI, his info is here somewhere.

MJHSC400

R12 is great stuff-- and can run down close to 0 degrees, whereas 134a will only approach around 32---

If it doesn't leak refrigerant at an alarming rate (more than $10 yearly in recharging) -- DONT TOUCH IT!!!

Be sure to flush the system with solvent if you do the retrofit--

It will absolutely lead to destruction if you dont do a solvent flush- individual solvent flushes are sold at AZone for $15 just for this reason--

1sxyrxy

r134 runs at higher pressure. a hell of alot cheaper and more common. its common sense. who cares. you just need the valves. and new o rings because r134 runs at high pressure than r12. i say do it. i do ac work all the time and trust me r134 is cool enough for anyone

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

not true at all... I get customers all the time that their retrofitted a/c systems don't work up to their full potential...

I don't know how hot it is where you are, but here in Vegas, when it's 110-120 and a car parked in the sun reaches 175 degrees or better, you need to have whatever you have working at it's 100% full potential...

I have two long standing customers that have this specific problem... when it gets to 100 or so outside, their a/c blows nothing but mediocre cool air - anything below 100 and it works great...

And if you say this is an exception, there are millions of people who live here and in climates like Scottsdale and Phoenix that have this kind of weather to deal with.

It has nothing to do with the pressure it runs at, it has to do with it's core efficiency and how well it transfers heat - r12 does it better, so it gets by with smaller evaporators and condensers, r134 sucks in comparison, so it needs bigger condensers, evaporators and the likes... when you put r12 into a system designed for 134, you degrade it's ability to transfer heat...

my car has R12 and I will keep it that way until there is no more R12 (at which point I'll buy a condenser and EVAP core off a newer SC and convert it correctly) My car also blows 40 degrees out the center vent stationary, when it's 115 degrees outside, so I'm happy. No converted 134 car will do that, and there are many new vehicles that won't do that... (new chryslers are very subject to cooling issues when its over 110 out)

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

just make sure you follow the directions on the flush else you'll ruin the compressor in a quick sorta way...

R12 is NOT THAT EXPENSIVE GUYS!!!!

I don't see monetarily why someone would want to go through the pain and agony (and money) of converting a system when R12 is still quite readily available... at our shop, we charge $3.95 / oz of R12... our systems take 32 oz, so, $128 for a full charge. What's it cost to convert - once you buy the chemicals, the fittings, and do all the labor of flushing it and hoping it will work right when you are done, and then getting the right amount of oil and refrigerant in the system, $128 doesn't sound too bad to me...

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

BTW, I didn't spend DAYS in A/C Systems Advanced Training classed for nothing, I actually learned some stuff in there...

ILOVELAMP

Hey Mitsuguy, thanks for all the great info. I live in Ohio, and am having a hard time finding a reputable shop that will work with r12. Now, it rarely ever hits 100 degrees here, usually high 80s low 90s. Would switching to r134 be enough for me, or do you still recommend trying to find a shop that will use r12?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

again, the system was designed for R12, so I personally, would stick with it... You might be able to get away with 134 no problem at all, you just have to weigh the potential issues that may come about (leaks, low performance, etc)

I kinda see it as putting 87 octane into a car designed for 91 or better - it works, just not as good...

JPI Racing

We have convert many many older system to R134. The temp here in Texas is around 90's degree. If the system is done properly then you should be getting 25-29 degree blowing out of the vents. We flush everything completely out of the systems. Replace all the 0-rings. And Of course replacing the driver is a must!!!!! Then again when your A/C system is not working don't get just out and convert it. Find out what is the pressure on Low and High side reading. A good A/C tech should be able to diagnost the problem by looking at his gauge. I will say it again, We convert countless system here without a glitch!!!!
Many poorly trained tech gave the R134 the bad name. If I have to pick which chemical to work with.. I would pick the R12 in a heart. We know why R12 is longer used.