SCpwner

Just got my mufflers on... got an amazing deal thanks to a fellow CL member referring me to a very reputable seller thanks again Tcheung87.

Anyways got them welded on and they sound good, the only thing is that they are a little quiet than i would like... So i need some opinions from you guys helping me to decide on this:

Should i stick with what i have or get the Dual H-piping in and rip out all of the resonators?

http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z...Magnaflows.flv

Here is the video... and yes the engine was cold.

Some pics:




Thanks,

-Johnathon

ChronoJ1

iTrader: (2)

get rid of the resonators.

Devir

which Magnaflows are those?

Go with 2.25" pipeing from the Cats to a magnaflow True-X pipe (where the 2 in 1) would be. Keep it dual all the way to the mufflers.

You can also replace the 2 front cats witth magnaflow's.

SCpwner

^^^ the 14829's and that sounds good but that would be a little pricey right? i was just thinking straight 2.25" dual piping all the way back. that's the cheapest and I'm just trying to get it louder not performance gain really.

Blizzy

iTrader: (-1)

An H pipe is definitely loud and simple to fabricate, but it is not good for flow. The Mustang guys debate over the H-pipe vs X-pipe like we debate over 1JZ vs na-t. The H-pipe is definitely not as good for performance, especially at peak rpm; but, it is as much as 10 decibels louder than a comparable X-pipe set up. The consensus opinion is that the X-pipe presents a more "tuned" exhaust note, even on a 16 valve Mustang V8.

Regardless, I would go all out from the cats back with 2.25" piping, deleting the resonators and adding something for gas balance: either an X-pipe (~$90 from ebay or the like) or H-pipe (~$20 fabricated by your exhaust guy).

I don't know of anyone on this forum with an H-pipe. I suggest listening to this video to notice how raspy a car can become with an H-pipe. After ~1:30 in the video, the car sounds like it has emphysema (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Pzr09JRPg).

na4now

Looks like he did.


I think it sounds good. Its probably plenty loud, going down the road. You shouldnt rev your engine when its cold. That was hard for me to watch.

SCpwner

No i haven't hence me asking... that's just the mufflers with the the resonators still attached...

and blizzy thanks for the input... imo i like the h piping sound on the mustang because you can hear the engine... and putting that on a lexus won't make it sound like that with those mufflers will it?. It looked to me as if that GT didn't have any mufflers on at all giving it that more noticable raspy sound. You said that H piping isn't good for performance at peak rpm's- so does this mean i will be losing performance by adding these over stock? or just compared to x piping i will loose performance... please elaborate.

My dad owns a Mustang cobra and has done something similar with cats and h piping no mufflers but he's pushing 400 rwhp dynoed and it's loud as crap.

Anyways i'll let everyone know my decision here in a little bit (i get paid friday and might go ahead and take it to get it done then.)

Another thing is that i don't have that much money right now and i'm just trying to get it louder.

Thanks for all the input though guys

Blizzy

iTrader: (-1)

Actually, those are Borla Stingers. General conception is that Borla mufflers are a few decibels softer than Magnaflows.

Both H and X pipes are used to balance the flow of the exhaust gases. Different from an electric engine that yields continuously smooth power, a combustion engine delivers its energy in pulses. The sooner the gases from these pulses are balanced out, the smoother the gases will flow out the exhaust.

An H pipe requires that the exhaust gases make a 90-degree bend for any balancing effect to take place. When exhaust gases are moving slowly and more randomly through the exhaust, this is capacitated. But, as exhaust gases approach speeds upward of the maximum capacity of the exhaust pipe, this 90-degree bend is not utilized and often bypassed. This means the pulses of the engine are no ironed out by the H-pipe and the exhaust has a perceived structure of a "true dual" exhaust with no balance pipe. This will sound much like a pair of 2L Civics. It is definitely loud, raw, and mean; but, it is not positive for performance.

On the other hand, the X-pipe forces the exhaust gases to balance, and it does so with shallow angles that are positive for exhaust flow. Whether exhaust gases are moving fastly or slowly, they must travel through the X and balance out. When balanced, the exhaust gases flow much more fluidly and smoothly than they would otherwise, resulting in positive performance gains. The quicker this balance happens, the better.

The stock exhaust system is a giant Y-to-Y set up. From the cats, the pipes converge into one large tube in the middle of the exhaust system. This forces the exhaust pulses to balance. After the center section, the pipes separate to the resonators and the mufflers. This acts similarly to the X pipe, just on a larger scale. The stock exhaust system is by no means poorly designed in this regard. It should present better performance than a comparable H-pipe set up.

This is not surprising. Unbolt your exhaust at the cats (ie. no mufflers or resonators): you will wake the dead.

Ultimately, the difference is performance between stock, X-pipe, and H-pipe will be no more than ten ponies. On a budget, with sound as your goal, do whatever is cheapest.

Check out these two exhaust shots...

This is Neil Griffith's exhaust (Supercharged Soarer guru in Australia w/H-pipe). Notice the 90* bend for the H-pipe to actively balance:


This is Scott's exhaust (Supercharged SC400 guru from this very forum w/X-pipe). Notice how the exhaust gases have no choice but to balance:

Seize

Looks sweet, sounds really good too

RedPhoenix

iTrader: (10)

Looks good, but im biased

i have only the stock 2 cats and the mufflers with an x pipe and it still isnt loud enough...


Im going to get rid of the cats soon and/or get headers.

SCpwner

Thanks guys again for your input... Blizzy man you really know your stuff and in no way do you fail to explain to me advantages and disadvantages

As of right now i don't know what i am going to do but i do know it's either going to be x pipe or h piping.

Oh one more question Blizzy... From what you said as at most 10 horses: So if i put an H piping in i would loose 10 horses from stock exhaust or is that the difference between x and h?

Thanks,

Johnathon

b1ackhawk

Do you still have the resonators on? if so how much louder than stock is it?

RedPhoenix

iTrader: (10)

yeah resonators are gone

i have

stock manifolds > stock cats > new 2.25 piping > magnaflow x pipe > new piping > 2 14829 magnaflows


its louder, dont get me wrong, but if your looking for that "mustang grumble at idles + cruising" thats what i do NOT have.

im going to pull my cats, see how that is, and look into rush import headers.


btw, even though its quiet.... sounds awesome.

SCpwner

Thanks man... I think Monday will be the day i'm going to take out all the piping from the headers and throw in H Piping... i prefer that sound when it idles and cruising. I have also been reading up tell me if i'm correct:

X piping- More of a HP gain then anything else
H piping- More of a torque gain.

Is this right?

Blizzy

iTrader: (-1)

at most ten horse. With a catback only, so long as you are using 2.25", there are not that many ponies up for grabs.

The H-piping becomes inefficient at high rpms where peak horsepower is put down. The X-piping becomes very efficient at these same moments. These high rpm moment are where the difference would be felt. Under normal driving circumstances, the difference would be almost impossible to feel; however, the sound differential would be somewhat obvious.

Super cheap: Remove resonators
Super loud: H-pipe
Super duper: X-pipe

If you want loud, the H-pipe is the best route. Most Mustang guys say 5-10dB are lost when going from H-pipe to X-pipe. Listen to RedPheonix's Youtube exhaust video knowing an H-pipe should be 5-10dB louder and ~$80 cheaper. Then, make your decision.